Water Pump Failure

[suncruiser2004@hotmail.com]

We have a 2004 Itasca Suncruiser that we have owned for 3 years. I have replaced the water pump 3 times. After about 6 months or so the pump fails to shut off after the faucets are closed. Shurflo has replaced the pumps, after the initial one(3 yr warranty), but it's the hassle. They have told me not to leave the pump switch on...we have an ice maker...everyone I know leaves their pumps on when they are camping. I have found no leaks in the system...anyone out there have any ideas...please respond

[wolfe10]

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

The pressure switch controls pump cut-in and cut-out. It is part of the pump assembly`on most pumps including the Shurflo 2.8 which is the common pump. You may be able to replace it instead of the whole pump.

A small piece of debris in the switch (sand, mineral deposit, building debris, etc) can get into the very small pressure switch orifice and cause it to NOT cut off.

Does you pump have a screen on the intake side of the pump? If so, any dirt in it?

Minimize dirt and sand in the potable water system ON ANY COACH by installing a FINE SEDIMENT ONLY filter on the incoming water.

We use a 5 micron sediment only filter from Home Depot. Replacement cartridges are under $5. Do NOT use a charcoal filter on water going into the potable water tank-- removing Chlorine and THEN storing it is not safe. A charcoal filter on the pressure side of the system is fine as the Chlorine is removed just before use.

Brett Wolfe

[kalynzoo]

I'm on my 4th surflo pump on my current MH. First we replaced the classic series with the Extreme 4.0 to increase internal water pressure. That pump failed and flooded the partially sealed pump compartment. Since the pump had been submerged there was no warranty. Go figure, a water pump is not covered if it gets wet. Anyway, I liked the increased pressure on demand, so I purchased a new 4.0 pump. After about a year of service the pump began to become louder and occasionally failed, and one day, total failure. This is when I was informed by Surflo, and others that the pump is designed for intermittent use. Turn it off when traveling, turn it off when leaving the coach. Turn it off in storage. Turn it off at night after last use. This seemed rather awkward, but posts on a few RV websites resulted in confirmation that this is the policy of many RVers. It is also mentioned in the product description. So I purchased my current Extreme 4.0, I use it only on demand, turning it off whenever we leave the rig. I have also read stories from campers who have flooded the rig when a plastic pipe separated and the RV was left unattended. Thus, when leaving for the day to sightsee, I turn off the campground feed to the coach. As for the icemaker, I usually purchase a bag of campground ice, and keep it in the ice maker.

[suncruiser2004@hotmail.com]

Mine is the Shurflo 5.7 and have used the filter and screen that comes with it. I have heard that they have problems with these pumps. I have even installed another filter before the pump and the filter is clean all the time. I have friends that have had the same water pump for 6 and seven years, leave it on when they are traveling, when we are tailgating, etc. The only time they turn it off is when they have it parked for a period of time in their driveways and they are not using it. Looking for a different setup.

[ClayL]

FWIW - At the Winnebago Grand National Rally in July, the Shurflow guy said they were discontinuing the electronic pump version in favor of a fully mechanical one. He indicated they have had a lot of problems and don't understand why.

The rep said when they have more than one pump failure in a given vehicle that they often will have multiple failures. In other vehicles the pumps will work fine for years.

As a designer of electronic instrumentation for heavy vehicles in a past life, I know that vehicle electrical systems are very noisy (electrically) and have lots of transients and spikes that can damage electronics unless the design is done properly. I suspect that might be their problem.

If you are having pump failures you might try putting a 1000 MFD, 100 volt or so capacitor across the power leads at the pump. That might provide enough protection.

[Cruzer]

One of the problems with the ShurFlo 5.7 is that it consumes a fair amount of power. I've had one go out on my '04 Bus after a year but other than that I've had good luck with them over a 6 year period. Leaving it on really isn't a problem because it doesn't run unless there's a demand for water. The biggest issue with these larger pumps is the current draw and supply lines.

Your water pump is powered by a water pump controller, most likely an Intellitec 10 amp controller - http://www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300145.000.pdf. This controller takes battery power and routes it to the water pump whenever the switches are engaged. Thecontroller alows multiple switch to control the water pump from various locations in the RV. It also provides feedback power to the red indicator lamps by those switches that let you know the water pump is on.

But the 5.7 pump draws more power than the average pump and the controller, as well as the wiring gauges running to it, are not sized for this much amperage. Whenever the wires are not capable of handling a given current flow the voltage will drop and the amperage will increase. This creates excessive heat in the water pump. Feel your water pump after it's been running a while and you'll see what I mean. The 5.7 gets very hot.

A great workaround for this is to install a relay. Remove the wire from your water pump and use it to trigger the relay. Then run a larger #12 wire from a good hot source and feed the relay with that power. Then run a #12 wire between the relay and water pump and be sure to connect to a good ground with the same gauge wire. That will prevent overheating from inadequate wire sizing and your pumps will last longer.

[rmmpe]

Another option is to install a small accumulator having a pressure switch, as I've done on boats and Motor Homes. Doing this will also smooth-out a diaphragm pumps delivery. In some cases, the pump's pressure switch can be bypassed to allow the accumulator's pressure switch to take the chore. Suitable accumulators can be found at marine supply stores.

This will not, however, handle an electrical overload condition.

[gbrinck]

Another alternative would be to switch over to an Aquajet pump - they seem to be more reliable than the Shurflo variable speed pumps.

http://www.rvupgradestore.com/browseproduc...Water-Pump.HTML

[hermanmullins]

We have a 2004 Itasca Suncruiser that we have owned for 3 years. I have replaced the water pump 3 times. After about 6 months or so the pump fails to shut off after the faucets are closed. Shurflo has replaced the pumps, after the initial one(3 yr warranty), but it's the hassle. They have told me not to leave the pump switch on...we have an ice maker...everyone I know leaves their pumps on when they are camping. I have found no leaks in the system...anyone out there have any ideas...please respond

Brett, you made a good point about the filter(charcoal), and the strainer. Our coach has a strainer between the inlet side of the pump and the tank with the filter on the outlet side. We had a problem with our Flojet pump. It didn't have a check valve in it. I called Flojet and before I finished telling my problem to the tech he said that he needed my address to send a check valve. Seem they have had this problem many times before. I did remove the Flojet and replace it with a Shurflo (I had from a previous water problem).

How many people use a Charcoal filter when hooked up to the camps water and decide to add water to their tank before leaving? That is why many coach manufacturs put a filter at the kitchen sink.

Brett, thanks for your responce to so many questions. In 9 years and three coaches I have learned much from your answers.

Keep up the good work.

[afchap]

How many people use a Charcoal filter when hooked up to the camps water and decide to add water to their tank before leaving? That is why many coach manufacturs put a filter at the kitchen sink.

I use a 1 micron sediment filter between shore water and the coach EVERYWHERE I hook to shore water. I will not use a charcoal filter between the shore water and the coach as I definitely want chlorine in the fresh water tank to help prevent algae growth. I believe the reason mfg's put a charcoal filter at the kitchen sink is to remove taste of chlorine and other things from the water you are drinking and putting in the ice maker. I do have one under my galley sink.

I have a Shurflo 5.7 pump with the screen strainer immediately before the pump. I am on the fourth or fifth 5.7 pump in 4 1/2 years. Some last a year or more, a couple have lasted just a few months. I carry a Shurflo 1.8gpm for a backup, and can change them out pretty fast, even in the dark! When Shurflo gets tired of replacing their pump, I plan to try an Aquajet.

[barluis]

We have a 2004 Itasca Suncruiser that we have owned for 3 years. I have replaced the water pump 3 times. After about 6 months or so the pump fails to shut off after the faucets are closed. Shurflo has replaced the pumps, after the initial one(3 yr warranty), but it's the hassle. They have told me not to leave the pump switch on...we have an ice maker...everyone I know leaves their pumps on when they are camping. I have found no leaks in the system...anyone out there have any ideas...please respond

If you have replaced the water pump 3 times and still have THE SAME problem, forget the water pump! You MUST find the source of the problem. Closely listen to the pump if it cycles every now and then even with every thing shutoff. If that's the case, then you do have a leak somewhere or the ice maker shutoff switch is no working properly and keeps on adding water. Closely monitor the cam that actuates these switches and see if they are actually changing the ON - OFF stage there are supposed to do.

[skyla58850@yahoo.com]

Although this comment isn't directly associated with the pump failure issue, I'd like to note that I've adopted a practice of shutting off the outside faucet supplying fresh water to the RV whenever we venture from the campsite. I do so because of concern that something might cause a burst and subsequent flood inside the rig. I'd be curious if anyone else follows this procedure, or any comments

[wolfe10]

Although this comment isn't directly associated with the pump failure issue, I'd like to note that I've adopted a practice of shutting off the outside faucet supplying fresh water to the RV whenever we venture from the campsite. I do so because of concern that something might cause a burst and subsequent flood inside the rig. I'd be curious if anyone else follows this procedure, or any comments

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

That is a safety practice most of us follow.

All you need to do is see one RV turned into an "aquarium" with water pouring out the entrance door to know it is safer to not have city water on when you are not in the rig-- EVEN WITH THE PROPER PRESSURE REDUCER IN PLACE.

Brett Wolfe

[skyla58850@yahoo.com]

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

That is a safety practice most of us follow.

All you need to do is see one RV turned into an "aquarium" with water pouring out the entrance door to know it is safer to not have city water on when you are not in the rig-- EVEN WITH THE PROPER PRESSURE REDUCER IN PLACE.

Brett Wolfe

Thanks for providing me with assurance that I haven't been unnecessarily being overcautious. Also, as a new member of FMCA I look forward to expanding my knowledge base and becoming a more informed RV'r, through forums such as this.

[mike@fleming.cc]

I've had the 5.7 in two coaches. First coach had a sort of stumble in the flow actuation but it was very minor, and the pump gave good service for 2 years when I traded the coach. Second coach has a pronounced stumble, where the 5.7 starts when a fixture is cracked open, it goes to near full flow for half a second, then stops altogether, then ramps up to full speed and stays w/good flow. Lots of friends w/this coach have had problems w/the 5.7, often w/multiple pump replacements. Several report that an accumulator resolves the pulsing problems (some have a constant high/low pulsing when pump is on) and pump gives great, even pressure after adding accumulator. I think the electronics are sensitive to pressure feedback, and feedback is peculiar to the coach's specific plumbing. Recently a buddy had issues new to his 5.7, and I noticed a slow drip from his 10gal water heater pressure valve; on the theory that an air gap in the heater tank would act like an accumulator, we drained the tank, replaced the pressure valve (no more leak to deplete a small air gap at top of tank), and his 5.7 works perfectly. I've fiddled w/the center adjustment screw on the impeller housing, and it changes the pulsing somewhat, but never eradicates it (there are 5 Phillips screws on the impeller head, 4 in a square that hold the head together, one in the center for adjustment of pressure sensitivity; early pumps did not have the center screw- it came in later versions of the pump). ShurFlo tech support said to turn the screw fully in (standard rotation) then back it off 1/4-1/2 turn and see if the pulsing type problems go away; no relief for me but maybe YMMV? I'll be adding a small accumulator soon to see if that eliminates the pulse. Whatever their electronic magic, the plumbing system's feedback seems like some coaches have the right type of feedback and these 5.7's never present a problem, and others can never get right w/out an accumulator.

I like the idea of the 1000mf capacitor to reduce electronic noise; if the accumulator doesn't fix the pulsing, I'll add that also, why not- I don't have anything else to do, right?

I put my 5.7 on a standard Bosch relay, using the coach's 3-way switch (with over 80 feet of wire so there's plenty of voltage drop) for the coil actuation on the relay, so it gets full volts direct thru a 15A fuse that comes w/the current 5.7. This is likely a major problem for many coaches, as the 3-way wire circuit is common and not every OEM uses a relay, and some who do use the 10A relay (ShurFlo recognizes this and covers it specifically in their 5.7 installation doc available on their website).

Final thought- a water pump is pretty central to my coach usage as we run off it all the time (never on city water, because we have whole house RO). I installed a get-by pump next to the 5.7 with flex lines so I can plumb & wire over to the spare in less than 10 minutes. Only had to do that once when the original 5.7 went spin happy (ran full time, got way hot, probably melted the impeller inside the housing). Don't know what caused that, but ShurFlo warrantied the pump over the counter at a local trailer supply joint (great customer service from ShurFlow BTW). For the 2 weeks we were at Quartzite, the spare pump worked fine (noisy, and lower pressure cuz its a cheaper pump, but that's what I get for being a skin-flint). If you rely on coach's pump regularly, a spare is a good idea, and having it installed like this makes it a snap to use.

[realbob@seanet.com]

I could give you a long story about installing a Shurflo 4.0 pump but I'll cut to the quick. Don't do it if you are trying to do much more than deliver water to a single faucet! Just save your money and stay with the stock pump. If you want more and preferrably better pressure at the shower head and don't want it to fall off when someone else is getting a drink in the kitchen you are in for a frustrating ride. Shurflo will be great to try and help you solve any problem. They will stay on the phone with you, send you new pumps and maybe even let you talk to an engineer. But, in the end, you will only be lucky if it works. I have a 2003 35ft Itasca Suncruiser with a simple plumbing system. All I wanted to accomplish besides delivering water to the outlets was get more pressure at the shower head. I got one pump to work for about a year but after it died I never could get another one to work. I can get it to pump water to one outlet but as soon as you turn on a second the pressure drops off and may or may not build up again. I have adjusted the center screw but that does't solve the problem.

For those considering an accumulator, Shurflo suggested I install one and then kill the software at the pump. They never told be how to disable the software (I'm sure they would have helped me) but I wasn't interested in that solution since I felt I had paid good money for a pump that is supposed to be intelligent enough to respond to increased demand. It's the way they promote it. I don't understand why delivery of fresh water is such a complex problem?!? Listen to the writer who has now installed a second pump with a sophistcated backup wiring system so once his first pump fails he can switch to the second and then I suppose make a beeline to the parts store to replace the first before the backup fails. My backup is just a simple second pump. It now takes me about 10 minutes to replace one and I'm up and running but still...All this on a 100k-200k-300k investment. I have been MHing for 7-8 years. I know we are riding in a fairly complex house on wheels and sometimes on some very rough roads. But, we can't figure out how to build a pump on shock absobers that will consistently deliver quality service to maybe a couple of outlets concurrently...and by the way...leave it on all the time or maybe shut itself off after X minutes if it is so important to turn it off if you aren't using it. I don't believe it.

[mike@fleming.cc]

UPDATE on 5.7 pump mods:

1) I added the small Shurflo accumulator tank, black ABS-type plastic, comes stated as factory filled to 20psi, w/a max pre-pressure of 40). I checked the factory pressurization & found 30psi. Since most Shurflo pumps are made for 40psi and the 5.7 is 65 psi (about 50% higher than the standard 40), I left the accumulator at 30psi or 50% higher than the advertised factory fill of 20. The accumulator smoothed out the pressure surging when cracking a faucet that I reported above. However, it did not change the actual response of the 5.7 pump, i.e. the pump spun immediately when faucet was opened, died, then restarted & ran according to the full pressure response requested at the fixture. My conclusion- the electronics are still reading the system pressure feedback the same, or else the 5.7 actuator response is acting the same regardless of what the reading of the feedback is. In either case, the accumulator is a nice addition, but doesn't fix anything about the pump working or not.

2) My second 5.7 died in AZ while on a trip. I'm now on my 3rd 5.7 in this coach, lending credence to Shurflo's description that if there is one failure, there will be more in a given coach. The warranty in any event is fabulous; the docs state 3 years from purchase (assuming receipt) or 3 years from date of pump mfgr if no receipt. They are shipping me a new pump at this time, and I installed a spare 5.7 I bought off eBay, so will carry the warranty pump as new spare.

3) Second pump failed while I was in the shower. Not my favorite time to interrupt & do a repair. I have an older diaphragm pump mounted where I can flex-line & wire over to it in about 20 minutes total time. So after the trip, I plumbed both the diaphragm pump & the spare 5.7 permanently on parallel lines, and put in a relay to switch over between pumps. This way I can operate off the on board tank all the time & switch between 'A' and 'B' pumps from inside the coach. I used a key fob type remote switch to power a standard Bosch type relay as an A/B switch so I didn't have to run new wiring to a permanent switch in the coach. Now I can switch pumps in the middle of a shower.

[dwilson787]

I have a recently purchased a 2005 HR Endeavor that has a Shurflo pump in it. When I fill tank with water, the pump seems to work fine. When tank gets down to about 1/2, I start having cavitation problems. When you turn water on, you hear the pump motor running, like no load on it. If you keep the water trickling out the faucet it eventually will start pumping. I have taken the filter off and cleaned it out. When I take the incoming line loose, shouldn't water in the tank run out?

[wolfe10]

Water will not necessarily come out when you remove the hose at the pump. Often the tank is installed below the level of the pump. The pump is self priming.

First thing to look at is whether there is any air in the inlet hose. Is there any air in the water coming out the faucets? If so, check hose connection at tank and at pump. Also, the on-pump filter gasket. Basically, you are looking for an air leak on the suction side between tank and pump.

And are you sure that the water level is indeed 1/2 when you start getting the problem-- could it be very low, yet the tank gauge indicates more water in the tank than there is?

Brett

[SacsTC]

dwilson787,

We also had this problem while returning from Quartzsite with one overnite stop on the way. After being beaten to death on CA highways, we stopped for a break and water pump acted just exactly like yours is.

Turned out that the city water fill handle did not get returned to the proper position. I was getting ready to order a new pump when I found this. Never know, may be something to check on yours.