Incorrect Tire Weight Rating On Steer Tires

[jleamont]

While doing some research yesterday on brakes and drums to install on our coach we purchased last year at a dealer I discovered that the dealer installed tires that are too light of a weight rating on our coach prior to us purchasing it and the wrong size.

The coach calls for a 295/80R22.5 in all positions with a H rating on the steer axle, (14600lbs steer axle, 23000 drive axle) The dealer installed 295/75R22.5 with a G rating (Firestone FS591 rated at 6175lbs each), when you do the math I am 2250lbs short on the steer axle (by rating, actually overloaded by 1200lbs).

So I did the next thing....I had it weighed. fully loaded steer axle is 13550 Drive is 20800 lbs while I can run the G rated on the drive axle I need to do something about the steer tires.This all started when I became suspicious that the wrong brakes were installed by the previous owner since the coach does a poor attempt at stopping then the brakes are applied. After speaking to Monaco, Bendix and Webb companies I am going to install Transit bus brakes with vented louvered drums, and replace the steer tires with the Michelin XZA2.

Do you think I should install the correct tire size on the steer or match the drives the current tires are 1" lower and .4" narrower that what is the correct size for the coach. Michelin does not feel it will be noticeable while driving. Once it is time to change the drive tires out I will put the correct size back on.

Anyone have any experience with the Louvered severe duty brake drums?

[wolfe10]

I agree that steer tires do NOT need to match drive axle tires. Were it mine, I would upgrade the two front tires.

To evaluate the rear tires, I would look at the revolutions per mile difference and compare our speedometer readout with a GPS. Certainly a small difference in revolutions per mile will not have a big affect, but any change WILL change the effective rear axle ratio.

[jleamont]

Thanks Brett, scary the dealer would have missed this and created this problem.

I am glad I caught it now rather than one of the steer tires failing due to overloading. I am comparing the FMCA pricing vs our national Michelin account to see which has the best price...waiting on a phone call back, then I am going to order them in and swap them out once I pull the cover off in two weeks. I am not one to knowingly operate any vehicle that way, "to much riding on the tires"!!

Thanks

[tireman9]

What did the dealer say when this mistake was pointed out?

An argument could be made that the dealer should be held responsible for not providing the proper tires or at least for not providing a new tire placard for this "dealer installed option".

[jleamont]

Well, I called the dealer, they apparently did not install the tires they took the coach to a local truck tire facility and they made the mistake. I asked for the reciept from the dealer, next I am going to reach out to them to see what they will do to make this right. I will let you know once I speak to them. I am not sure how hard I should push this concern, this could have been a big problem had one blown out on the highway and I am sure their Insurance carrier would not be happy with a miss like this.

[dickandlois]

jleamont,

You posted a question regarding severe service duty drums at the end of you tire post: "Anyone have any experience with the Louvered severe duty brake drums?"

I use slotted rotors on my 3/4ton truck set up to haul 12000+ loads and the brake fade is much less. So if heat build up is decreased using louvered drums that would be a plus.

Look up the manufactures information on the size you need and see what there specifications and structural integrity information is.

Rich.

[jleamont]

Update: the tire installer in Lancaster PA that installed the tires is going to give me full credit for the ones they installed that were the wrong size and load range. I just have to pay the difference for what tire I choose, they will pick up the mounting and balancing also, seems fair.

The brake drums in question are made by Webb and the model is Vortex, I was looking at the model with the cross ventilation option. Standard vortex http://www.webbwheel.com/pdfs/literature/VortexFlyerOEM.pdf. "Cool Running option" Vortex http://www.truckpro.com/Content/Resources/vortexflyer-crt.pdf

So far everyone is trying to talk me out of these, "these are overkill in an RV application" they were designed for excessive stopping, correct me if I am wrong but don't we frequently stop traveling through towns...and how often do we stand on the pedal when someone tries to beat you out of an intersection?

Pricing is $50.00 more per drum, based off of the mileage I travel per year the aggressive shoe and these drums I should get 10 years out of them.

Any thoughts...overkill?

Thanks

Joe

[dickandlois]

Joe,

We all try to keep our tires up to date and the one item that stops them from rolling are brake drums and shoes.

To my way of thinking, if you only needed the extra capability once it is money well spent. Thinking it beats the cost of a hospital visit.

Knowing one has done there best to be safe is always good for your piece of mind.

Thing is, if its your time to become an angle-you will be in the right spot.

Must be honest, stuck my neck out a few times more then many people and there is not once I would have changed the action I took.

Mom lived to be 93 and if I had a little more sense, she might still be living. The other side of the coin is maybe all those Adrenalin highs I created helped her to live as long as she did.

Rich.

[jleamont]

Joe,

We all try to keep our tires up to date and the one item that stops them from rolling are brake drums and shoes.

To my way of thinking, if you only needed the extra capability once it is money well spent. Thinking it beats the cost of a hospital visit.

Knowing one has done there best to be safe is always good for your piece of mind.

Thing is, if its your time to become an angle-you will be in the right spot.

Must be honest, stuck my neck out a few times more then many people and there is not once I would have changed the action I took.

Mom lived to be 93 and if I had a little more sense, she might still be living. The other side of the coin is maybe all those Adrenalin highs I created helped her to live as long as she did.

Rich.

Rich, thank you for the words of wisdom. My wife and I discussed this last night, there is just too much riding on those tires to try and save a few bucks. We have not had this coach out west yet coming down those mountains like our old coach did on a few trips, I strongly feel this one would not stop if I needed it to, we are going with the best of the best, once I pull it out this weekend I am going to make a list of what I need and make it happen.

Thank you again!

Joe

[50VIKING]

Good Morning , I'm the proud owner of a new 42' CC Magna . My first Motor home . I have to replace the tire's ( 8 ) Presently there's Toyo tire's from CC when new . The tire's are old not tread life. I priced out Michelin's and have not priced out Toyo's.

The Tire company recommended me putting Continental's Conti . The front tire's have a ( L ) load rate with 20 ply , The rear's have a ( H ) load rate with 16 ply . There about $1,800.00 cheaper .

My question is has anyone used Conti tire's ? This isn't about being cheap . I want to B safe and sound . I will spend for the best and right tire .

Respectfully

Gary

[wolfe10]

Gary,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Yes, the "new to us" coach we got last fall has Continental HSL2 tires. No problems with them-- good ride and handling. As with any tire selection, make sure it meets or exceeds your coach's axle GAWR's.

Said another way, you do NOT want the tires to be the weak link!

[wildebill308]

Brett, the Continental HSL2 tires are Continental's low rolling resistance fuel saving tire. What is your opinion? Do you have them all around?

Bill

[wolfe10]

Yes, all around. Previous coaches always on Michelins. The Continentals meet my expectations for ride, handling, noise, etc.

Impressed.

[wildebill308]

Good to hear. Safe travel our paths probably won't cross this year unless you plan on being at the 6 start rally in Conrow.

Bill

[jleamont]

Update:

Michelins were installed, and I changed the brakes, drums and hardware.

Upon arrival to the tire dealer/installer that made the error in the first place begins to tell me "these tires will be OK even though they are overloaded, each manufacture under rates them to a percentage...you would have been fine, we're just extending this offer to you in good faith, the dealer you bought this from brought it to us and they specifically asked for this size and brand tires so we installed them".

Brakes; after extensive research and phone calls to Bendix, Dana, Monaco tech support, Webb, Meritor, and Westport axle, I determined what brake linings came with the coach as original equipment, and what I could do to make it better with today's technology. I installed shoes suited for fire apparatus or trash trucks all the way around and drums made for to work with the aggressive lining. I also upgraded the rear shoes to 8.62" wide from the original 7" shoes. The coach now stops effortlessly, no more panicked searching for the engine brake switch when someone jumps out in front of you.

After researching the 8.62 shoe would be standard now if you didn't have air disc brakes on a coach this heavy due to stopping requirement changes that came out in 2012. So basically we're updated.

I should have taken pictures of what I had found when the drums were pulled, several cracks, hot spotting, glazing and the cheapest linings you could buy that were only rated to stop 31000 lbs (our gvw is 36000, and it weighs 33800 lbs loaded). I am so surprised a person could be so careless in selecting brakes for a vehicle this size. After making some phone calls I can see how this happened. Everyone wants to sell you what they can make the most profit on, and is the cheapest to get the sale, not what you need to stop the coach and be safe doing so. I even reached out to our local rv dealer which is a Monaco dealer, they too had no clue about brake shoes and the differences in lining, nor did they stock anything, their response was "we source locally what we can get our hands on that fits and is the most cost effective for the customer if it fits it will work or it wouldn't fit" BAD ANSWER! I only use them for an occasional part or recalls, now I can see the full picture with that dealer. I called another dealer and both seem to have the same answer, and again have no clue about chassis work, my wife and I were shocked. I went through the channels I have at work for the purchase, all together I have $987.00 in brake parts invested and about 5 hours of my time for the install and research, I now have a coach that stops with little effort.

I wanted to share this experience to educate everyone to be careful where you take your coach for work, and ask questions, make them prove to you that what they are installing is correct and meets the requirements of your coach manufacture, you may be surprised that you have more knowledge than a dealer or repair shop...and the parts they hang could cost you your life.

Good luck, happy camping and be safe.

Joe

Edited April 1, 2021 by jleamont

[casuall454]

Update:

Upon arrival to the tire dealer/installer that made the error in the first place begins to tell me "these tires will be OK even though they are overloaded, each manufacture under rates them to a percentage...you would have been fine, we're just extending this offer to you in good faith, the dealer you bought this from brought it to us and they specifically asked for this size and brand tires so we installed them".

Please ask your service representative to reduce that comment to writting and take note of their reaction. Enjoy your new found "smooth" ride.

[Cookie]

This refers to the 'brake' portion of this thread.

I think that the first problem, unless your coach is new, is taking it to a 'dealer' for chassis work. I have a coach on a Ford F53 chassis, and take it to a Ford truck dealer for all that kind of work. They really know their stuff. When I first bought this 'new to me' coach, I took it there for a 'look through' and a couple of things I wanted looked at (including brakes). As they looked at it, they found many things that I wouldn't have noticed or known to look at. The most interesting was that the coach was starting off in 2nd gear (of four) instead of first. They had to install a new loom. Bad news was that it cost $1100 and the worse news was that Ford didn't make or supply this part any more. The good news was that the boss said that he could 'fabricate' one for $900 and the better news was that it ended costing $750. If you need Ford work done in the Portland, Oregon area, contact Northside Ford (503) 282-7777.

Going to the people who really know the unit is the way to go. I go to an independent RV repair shop, a 'mom and pop' store, he has been repairing RV's for 20 years and she has worked in the office side of the RV industry for just as long. They just opened about three years ago, and we are more than pleased with their work. In the Longview Washington area: Rightway RV 360-636-1330