Caterpillar Serpentine Belt

[obedb]

Finally got to drop my Phaeton 40ft. 2003 for the state mandated inspection. Wanted to do it weeks ago, but they were too busy with spring get readies. They are the only place nearby that work on RVs. Asked about replacing the Serpentine belt on our rear radiator Cat 330. Almost immediately started about removing the radiator, but I was assured that that they routinely replaced them. I mentioned removing the air filter housing and muffler would be a cheaper way to see what they are doing. Oh really! About to participate being scammed. Younger/ I would find a hard surface (not gravel) and do it.. What would be a fair labor hour # to replace the belt? $$ per labor hour vary. Our area is right at $100 per.

[wolfe10]

ObedB,

Assume this is a rear radiator, probably Freightliner chassis.

If so, it is MUCH easier with two people-- one from above (access under bed or closet) and one from below. Not aware of having to remove any components to access it.

Be aware that in addition to your serpentine belt, you have a separate water pump belt (Caterpillar part). If both are original and 10 years old, would replace both!

In most cases, when you need anything engine/chassis related, go to either an engine or chassis dealer, NOT RV dealer.

With a rear radiator, it is no fun, but certainly not a "disassemble coach to do it". job.

[srfridley]

I had the belts (2 as stated in Brett's post) in my 2006 Winnebago with Freightliner and Cat 350 at our local Freightliner dealer, they didn't remove any components and only charged 1 hour labor for this job.

[wolfe10]

Labor is somewhat dependent on how difficult it is to access the top accessory area of the engine (front of engine, which is toward back of coach).

Be sure to check fan bearing for play/wear while in there.

Also, consider replacing the serpentine belt automatic tensioner if over 50k miles while in there (only one more bolt to remove it)

[hermanmullins]

Very good advise. When ever you have to replace a component on any vehicle that is difficult to get to, always replace any thing else that can be replaced.

If there is another belt behind the one your are replacing change it to. In once not twice or three times.

Herman

[obedb]

I did my best to look at the front of the engine from up top. I used a mirror and flashlight, but I couldn't see well. It looked like the same belt that powered the compressor and alternator headed to the fan hub, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Just under 22,000 miles on the coach. I think that I will take the unit to some place with more experience. Everything setting around the shop was mostly gas powered.

[wolfe10]

Yes, on your engine, the serpentine belt connects: engine crankshaft, automatic tensioner, alternator, A/C compressor and fan hub. Since the chassis maker specs and installs the alternator and A/C compressor the belt is a chassis maker speced item, not engine maker.

And, if access to the top components is as difficult as it sounds, labor will/should be higher!

Also, depending on engine serial number, you may have a grease zirk on the fan hub bearing. 3126 with serial numbers up to HEP15357 (Engine build date 1/7/03) have the grease zerk fitting. 3126 with serial numbers above HEP15357 and all C7s have permanently lubricated bearings.

The inner belt (a "V" belt, not serpentine) connects: engine crankshaft, MANUAL tensioner and water pump. Repeat MANUAL tensioner. So, water pump belt tension is an often overlooked item that can lead to overheating if the belt becomes loose enough to slip.

If coming to the Madison FMCA Convention, be sure to attend the Caterpillar Engine Maintenance Seminar-- I will be going over this in detail (with pictures)!

[obedb]

Will the serpentine belt have to ordered from Tiffin? I guess the other belt can be found locally for sure?

[wolfe10]

Belt will be a Freightliner part-- they can give you the PN.

[rossboyer]

Freightliner can give you a Gates number that matches their belt. Or they can give you the specification. IE: 8 rib & ??? millimeters long. The cost is about 1/2 the price of a Freightliner belt. I bought two at the Freightliner dealer in Rapid City, SD, so I would have a spare about 2 years ago. I think the two were about $60.00.

[obedb]

Thanks to everybody. I am probably going to find someone that I trust more. I have two shops in mind. Probably have not done one, but both places have experienced truck mechanics. If I was younger and had a suitable place to do the work I would try it myself..I will call Freightliner tomorrow to track down the belts. As rossboyer mentioned having a spare is a good idea. Oh! here I go with truck stuff again/ the serpentine belt on my Series60 Detroit took about 15 minutes, and I didn't have to get dirty in the process.

[wolfe10]

Yup, even less than 15 minutes with your engine with side radiator. Been there, done that.

And, I like the idea of buying and installing the new belt. That both gives you a brand new one on AND insures that it is the correct belt AND the old one is a good spare!

[rossboyer]

The only reason I bought two is that NAPA sold a belt to me that I had carried for 2 years as a spare. That belt was 6 mm shorter than the original. On the road mine broke, and I could only find a 6 rib. But it worked from central Illinois to Gillett, WY and back home. I installed one of the 8 rib belts in about 15 minutes. Taking up the closet floor and reinstalling it took about an hour. None of the work was hard, just a little cramped working around the closet doors.

[wildebill308]

I have always wondered about the wisdom of keeping a belt that you changed because you no longer trust as a spare. This would mean you will have to change it twice. Once because the one on the coach breaks and later to replace the used belt that you didn't trust. I keep a new spare so if I ever have to change it I only have to do it once.

Bill

[wolfe10]

Bill,

I understand your point, but remember, rubber degrades with age. Said another way, a 6 year old spare is NOT the same as a new belt.

Certainly part of the equation is labor cost to replace the belt. I do it myself, so go the "install new/keep old for spare".

[wildebill308]

Bill,

I understand your point, but remember, rubber degrades with age. Said another way, a 6 year old spare is NOT the same as a new belt.

Certainly part of the equation is labor cost to replace the belt. I do it myself, so go the "install new/keep old for spare".

I understand what you are saying, but how long did you run the old belt you took off? Now how long before you might have to use it? I would rather have that aged but new belt.

Bill

[wolfe10]

Bill,

Were I to ever need the spare belt, it would be just until I could buy a new one. Again, no completely right/wrong answers here-- just different ways of doing things.

I admit, if I did not have a side radiator where it was super simple to install a new belt I might rethink my position. But, it takes me longer to fill the fuel tank than to replace the belts. Of course, this IS with expert supervision from Dianne!

[wildebill308]

A side radiator would make it easier. I would need a very slow pump on my rear radiator coach and I don't have the expert supervision from Dianne.

Bill

[obedb]

I have very good access to the top of the engine. Having valve lash adjusted, exhaust brake worked on, preheater etc would be rather easy. I had thought about carefully running a blade around the edge of the carpet in the closet, it would then be easy to replace. Who looks at the floor of a closet? I think that might greatly simplify the work. If the floor sans carpet looks removable and then replaceable on our unit, I am going to try it, but I won't tell my DW until after the fact.

[rossboyer]

The carpet in the closet is attached to floor in our coach. To remove the floor and carpet there are 4 large head screws and 2 dry wall screws. When all the screws are removed, the floor lifts out then for easy access to the engine. I also have a small section of floor in the bedroom that removes the same way to access the secondary fuel filter to change it.

[obedb]

Thank you Ross.

If I can look through the bottom of the closet I will have a clear view of the front of the engine. I really believe given that view, I can probably replace the belts on my own. I will put some plywood on the gravel, jack the rear up using the onboard jacks, and place some jack stands under the axle. Honest to goodness, even at my age, I think that I could then do it.

We all hate being scammed, and I think that was the setup in progress when we dropped our Phaeton at the only place in my end of York county that claims to have certified mechanics.

Why do we have to put up with this? Tiffin is one of the larger builders of RVs and they have a loyal group of customers. Many have owned two or three in just a few years. Why build something that is so difficult to work on?

That is my humble opinion.

[obedb]

I ran a small handheld mirror underneath using a flashlight. No sign of an opening. Would be the perfect place to facilitate belt change. Would be looking right down at the fan. Probably not difficult then. Already had to trash carpet to get to the only access supplied. We found a small area rug that matches the color pretty much and lies right in the spot. The shop where the unit now sets tells me that 2 to three hours labor plus belts will get it done, but they started the conversation with radiator removal. Perhaps it will be their first? But I am feeling better. Knock on wood.

[wolfe10]

Have you checked with Tiffin for their ideas on access to the top of the engine?

And, as difficult as it sounds to access the engine, I really wonder how often (if ever) the front of the CAC (Charge Air Cooler) has been cleaned. With a rear radiator, this really should be done once a year. So, radiator removal may be a good time to clean the radiator, probably change coolant (be sure they flush all the lines) AND clean the exterior of radiator and CAC.

[jleamont]

Sooooo if I am reading this correctly..... there are no access panels in the floor of your coach?

I would also recomend thay clean out the radiator and CAC that is good maintenance.

All of the rear radiator units we had looked at either had a large door under the bed or a few access panels in the floor some were hidden.

[obedb]

As indicated earlier in this thread, I have very good access to the top of the engine after trashing the carpet next to the rear facing side of the bed. Valve cover, turbo, manifold heater exhaust brake are all there. I can see very little of the front of the engine. No power problems or overheating on hard pulls as yet, and I do love mountains. It doesn't look like cleaning the CAC from my view of the engine would be effective.

Brett, I have seen some of your suggestions on cleaning there. Perhaps getting some cleaner on the CAC and the pushing back from the rear with a power washer? Would have to pull back to keep from closing up fins. Tiffin was wrong when they told me how to get to my access panel. Nothing about removing carpet. I have exchanged emails including pictures with another '03 Phaeton owner.His access was right where I was told mine would be and the securing screws were visible. They are a very busy outfit and callbacks take a while. Pushing back through the radiator and CAC would put a lot of gunk on the new belts. Maybe I should have spent the dough on removal. Lot of $$$$$ I guess. My fault for buying the first nice looking 40 that we looked at. It really is gorgeous inside, but I would settle for a little less glitz and a side radiator. I will have to look for your posts on the subject. Maybe I can make it work.