Engine Won't Start

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

Hi,

I have a 2003 Safari Cheetah with Caterpillar 330 Engine.

I had a problem with the house battery cutoff switch, and the house battery solenoid was replaced. Ordered new switch from Monaco, they sent wrong switch, new correct switch is on the way! In the meantime, now, engine will not turn over, panel lights go on.(except engine heater light.) Also, leveling lights are on.

 I have checked all fuses, batteries are fully charged, electrolyte is checked, Starter won't crank at all..this all happened after working on the house battery cutoff switch and solenoid was replaced?

 Is there starter relay or solenoid to check?  The wires to the house battery switch are not connected - waiting for the new switch .

Need Help! 

[wolfe10]

jdfalco444,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

OK let's go through this step by step:

What is chassis battery voltage?

When you turn on the ignition do the following work:  Allison shift pad illuminate? Dash HVAC fan work? This will tell you whether the ignition switch and ignition solenoid are working.

 

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

Wolfe 10,  

The Allison shift pad does not illuminate, unless I put the lights on.  The dash fan does work and The jack leveler light works on the panel.  

The chassis battery voltage is over 13volts. 

[wolfe10]

Some odd symptoms. The Allison shift pad only operative when lights are on suggests a loose or bad connection. Could be at the chassis battery end, but more likely under the dash.

[dickandlois]

Brett,

Question, the lights in the shift panel he is seeing? Could they be the lighting back lights and not the shift button illuminating?  

One of the possible replacement Latching Relays has been discontinued. I did some editing of my post on this thread. original post was 18th. of January 2013.

Posted 18 Jan 2013 · Report post

There are 2 ways the relays where wired. These are latching relays and the switch is a momentary rocking switch that toggles them off an on. The difference in the wiring is where the fuse link(s) is connected. The links are gray in color and outwardly show no sign of being open. Both fuse links need to be good and both relays need to energize to get the system on line.

There should be a Purple wire from the switch to the relay, at the switch there will be a white wire going to ground and the other end of the Purple wire. Purple wire to center connection of the SW.#2-- White wire to connection #1

Is this what you see ? The switch does not need to be locked to keep the circuit active ! The lock is to prevent from inadvertently turning off the 12 volt system.

12 Volts should be present on 1 side of each relay, these are high current circuits with large fuses so do not short out these cables. One gets a large spark if you do !!!! and the fusses are expensive and special. Not found at the auto supply store.

The relay part number listed is KIB 16615055 Momentary, Location Rear Run Box. Page # 196 Monaco prints.

Edit: 1-18-2013 second edit, 5-14-2016

The latching relay is an effective battery disconnect device. The LR9806 is a single-pulse latching relay. It only requires a short "pulse" of voltage to activate or deactivate the relay. Since the LR9806 does not require constant voltage, it is one less load on the battery. Discontinued.

Link to a replacement for the LR9806

http://rvpowerpartsplus.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=360

This might help.

Rich.

 

[wolfe10]

Rich,

Yes, I should have been more specific.  But Allison shift pad illuminating, I mean with the key on, does the "N" appear?

Because the dash HVAC fan works with key on (normally they are wired to only work with the ignition on-- confirm that for your coach), doesn't sound like the ignition solenoid. Said another way, if some things that only work with the ignition on, the ignition solenoid is working.

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

Brett...update!!

Now..with the generator going, no AC voltage in the coach. Also, with generator off and shore power on, still no AC voltage.  Replaced DC  house latching solenoid (still waiting for new switch to arrive) but when I  jump across the latching solenoid I get DC voltage in the coach . Problem still, starter won't engage, no clicking or etc. and after rechecking sift selector,

No lights come on.  Batteries are charged, checked all circuit breakers and battery connections.. Driving me crazy!!  If the shift pad is not working would that cause the starter not to work?  thanks.. Jim

[wolfe10]

Generator:  Turn off and back on the two on-generator breakers.

 If still no 120 VAC to the coach AND YOU ARE SAFE WORKING AROUND 240 VAC:

Check the generator to house wire connection.  Could be just a loose connection.  If not, with shore power disconnected, generator off, remove the lid to the ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch). Check for power "IN" from generator and then power "OUT" to 120 VAC main breaker box.  From the "OUT" side of the ATS on, shore power and generator use the same components, so problem is not downstream of the ATS if you still have shore power working.

Correct, if Allison shift pad does not show "N", the engine will not start.

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

Brett,

Thank You! Solved the problem of AC power by resetting the generator and inverter breakers. Our problem at this point is the shift panel not going on and not being able to start ignition.

The electronic box under the shift pad ..does that control the power to the shift pad?

 Thanks again for your help.

[wolfe10]

Most coaches with Allison transmissions have two fuses for the Allison-- one for memory and one for operation.  They power the Allison ECU.  It can be mounted to the shift pad or remotely via a cable.

For exact wiring, check with your chassis maker, Monaco in your case.

[abyrd]

Rich,

 

I just looked at my schematic for my 04 Holiday Rambler Endeavor and I could only locate one Allison transmission fuse and it is located in battery compartment on the bulkhead immediately above the chassis batteries,it's a 15 A fuse.  My schematics indicate they are apply to a Cheetah also, not sure if it applies to you model year.

There are also two IGINITION LOCK-OUT relays located in electrical compartment they are identified as RELAY R1 & R2.  Might pay to checked these relays.

Hope this will help you in trouble shooting you problem.  I am no expert on MH wiring, but I have been able avoid paying anyone in keeping my rigs on the road.  During my 40 plus years career in hydroelectric power generation I have become proficient in trouble shooting electrical problems.

Jim

 

[abyrd]

Rick,

 

I also have Troubleshooting FLOW CHARTS in my owners manual for different fault conditions, including

NO CRANK and NO START.  The are quite specific with details including elementary wiring schematic and flow charts that include flow charts that you follow based on your findings at each junction point.

Unfortunately I don't have a scanner larger enough to scan and pass on to you.  I will check on Monday to see I can find that capability locally and can email them to you.  Let me know if you want me to proceed.

 

Regards,

Jim

[dickandlois]

Thanks Jim, but I do have the drawings for some of the Monaco chassis on file!

Like Brett another members of the forum, we try to pass on information that we hope is helpful. No two coaches are wired exactly the same. Floor plans, options and model year can necessitate changes. Then throw in availability and or new or updated items and it makes for an interesting challenge finding some issues.

Hope you get your start issue resolved!! Keep probing the group with any questions or information and there is an answer out there. The strong point of the forum is its members and the total knowledge and experience. Plus a willingness to share.

Rich.  

I have used a probe with a bulb in the probe to test circuits and have even made up the same idea  with clips and enough wire to place a bulb out side the coach that I can see if it lights when a circuit is activated from the drivers location when working alone!

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

I have called Monaco, they referred me to Allision - regarding starting problem ..also they referred me to Cat. No help from any of them. 

I live in Mission, Tx and no service available from either Allisson or Cat.  I found 4 fuses on the sidewall of the battery dept., fuses were all

good. All my hot wires on battery are all reading over 12v.  Question:  when I try to put a OHM meter on the starter wire - it reads zero..

(Not reading any power there) Should It be reading 12v ?  Since I have a Roadmaster chassis, I was  told me to call Freightliner,

But they don't handle Roadmaster! Not sure where to go from here?  I have a feeling it is something very simple I am missing, a fuse,or

wire etc.  Also, I remember the shifting panel was always hot ( to touch ), while  we were 8 months on the road but no problem. I have only owned the 

2003 safari cheetah for 1 year - and am totally new at all this! Appreciate all the help.  Jim

[abyrd]

Jim,

 

I have a flow troubleshooting flow charts for 2004 Roadmaster chassis, the drawing say is applies to a Cheetah.

The flow chart included "NO CRANK" and "NO START" situations.

 

Send me a PM and I will email you the flow charts.

 

Jim

 

[dickandlois]

Jim, Thanks for offering Jim the flow chart(S) 

Been looking over some wiring for the start circuit, but they are weak in regards to the transmission power circuits. Jim's model year fits into the time when fusable links  where used on the starter solenoid circuit. They can open and have no indication of failing.

Still sounds like there is no power to the shift panel though.

Rich.

[rsbilledwards]

I had this issue this summer no light on pad, no starting, turned out to be one of two fuses in the VIM mounted under the shift pad on my  2001 Safari Zanzibar. This occurred after I pulled the chassis batteries and reinstalled them. It is very important when using a test light on computerized systems, to use one that is low impedance type!

 

Good luck

Bill Edwards

[jdfalco444@sbcglobal.net]

Thank you to all that have replied with great information!  Thanks Jim, for the flow chart. Its been helpful, but having a hard time finding where the circuits, fuses  and relays are!  Again, I have narrowed it down to no power to the four circuit breakers in the battery compartment that control ECU,VIN and others. I assume that this is what powers up the shifter panel. So somewhere before it gets to those circuit breakers I'm not getting any power!  

I also have had problems with the house battery switch.. Before the problem of no power.!  Received the second switch today.. Does anyone have the schematics for a 6 pole DC momentary rocker switch - that operates the house batteries solenoid? What I had before was an on/off/ switch and the wiring connections are not the same.

 I talked to local Freightliner service but they don't handle Roadmaster chassis.  I keep thinking it is a fuse somewhere that I can't find. I don't know what to do at this point.  

Thanks,

Jim

[abyrd]

Attached are is the troubleshooting flow chart for a "NO CRANK" situation.

 

You will need to tape them together.

 

Jim

[mcentirejerry]

I realize this is a old post, but what was the problem? I’m having the no crank issue with a 2001 Diplomat and shift pad not lighting up.

[wolfe10]

mcentirejerry,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

First, is to verify that the IGNITION SOLENOID is working.  Do all the other things that normally only work with the ignition on still work (like dash HVAC fan).

Have you unplugged/replugged connections at the shift pad and Allison ECU?

[stamatia1]

help!!!!!!! Ii have the exact same problem,  has  anyone come up with the solution?  No start, no power to allison shifter pad.

2007 Monaco signature series.

Thank you

[hermanmullins]

Welcome to the Forum.

In you panel in front of the tire on the drivers side there are two solenoids. With the key on both solenoids should have power on both large post on the solenoid. If one doesn't have power on both post that is the bad one. It is an easy fix and lots of folks carry spare solenoids because it is used in several places. Be sure that the solenoid you purchase is a 12 volt continues unit.

Good luck and again Welcome,

Herman