jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 I removed my Propane tank since there is nothing in the coach operating on propane. My fuel tank and propane tank shared a bay under the coach (1st bay behind the steer axle). This bay was only accessible from the drivers side for propane filling. On the opposite side was a hinged door bolted closed with my other fuel fill which has a small door to access that side fuel fill. I fabricated a door latching system so I can now use that bay where the propane tank once sat for storage and access it from both sides. I installed a diamond plate floor where the propane tank once sat, so I now have a full floor in that bay, while it goes all the way up the fuel tank, both sides of the fuel tank and behind it are open, you can see the ground and I would like to seal it all up. My question; this bay is still open around the fuel tank portion, is there any reason I shouldn't close it off now to keep dirt and unwanted pests out? My fuel tank has a vent that discharges below the floor level already. I wasn't sure if it was open for air circulation around the fuel tank? But the more I look at it driving down the road wont yield any air in there as far as I can tell. I believe it was open for the old propane tank. Any thoughts if I should seal it up? Latch photos http://community.fmca.com/gallery/category/1-members-gallery/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 8, 2016 J, Seal it up! The air will flow up there because it will be a low pressure area like the back of the coach when you are sailing down the road. Make it just like the rest of your cargo bay. It was only open because the P tank was there and they did not want it in a closed space. If I ever make this coach all electric I'll do the same. Bill Edwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Bill, my thoughts exactly!! Trying to see if I am missing something by closing it off, other than heat exchange from the fuel tank I can think of any reason not to. I was considering on diamond plate on a 45 degree angle and onto the fuel tank wall via silicone barrier so it doesn't chafe the tank. Pop rivets on the coach side to hold it in place. The CG we stayed at this weekend had stone roads, so when I got home and opened the doors I was shocked how much dust had accumulated in there, just as much outside as in that bay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blakeloke Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Joe, You do really good work! Agree with Bill....seal it up. It's important that fuel systems are open to atmosphere in the event of a leak. Now that you've eliminated the propane tank you can build another storage bay. Blake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Correct, diesel does not require external venting. BUT (ya a pretty big but), if air flow is inhibited, you may need/want to add a fuel cooler (basically a transmission cooler in the return line), as fuel temperatures can rise from recirculated fuel and inadequate air flow over the tank. I had exactly this issue on our Foretravel which had the diesel tank in a bay (unibody). Before the fuel cooler, if below a 1/2 tank on a hot day, the tank would be almost too hot to touch. The transmission cooler I installed in the return line brought tank temperatures down almost to ambient. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 8, 2016 In Texas "on a hot day, ambient temp., is 90's, feel like 110+"! Actually, a very sound idea! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Brett, interesting thought. I looked at them when I was engineering the fuel system redesign, they are available with an electric fan that incorporates thermostat switch to engage the fan only when needed for tight location's also and it would be a simple add on given the amount of space. Probably couldn't hurt since this coach only sees warm/hot weather also. Good thought, thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Brett, I had no idea...great idea. I will have a look at that though my tank is fully exposed and lots of air. J, When you use pop rivets for this, use steel shanked as they pull much tighter. If you have an air powered rivet gun they will pull even tighter. One of the things I am trying to determine and I have it partially so, is to add from the coach interior positive air pressure to the cargo bay to aid in the reduction of low pressure and so the dust will stay out. When I removed the washer/drier it left a 4 inch hole into the cargo bay. l wonder if a muffin fan that moves 35 cubic feet of air a minute would be adequate for such use? The particular fan because I have it and it is 12 volt. I would key it on with ignition power. Bill Edwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted August 8, 2016 I just installed mine as the outermost piece of the cooling package (in front of CAC and radiator). This is with a side radiator coach. That location would not work on a rear radiator coach. Dianne made a cover for it with velcro so in freezing temperatures it would not super-cool the fuel. Just need the cooler and a length of fuel return hose to go from the engine to the cooler. Then use the original return line from there to tank. You could also install it up front in the windstream just forward of the tank. Would probably require two new hoses: one to extend the original line forward and one from the cooler back to the tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 22 minutes ago, wolfe10 said: I just installed mine as the outermost piece of the cooling package (in front of CAC and radiator). This is with a side radiator coach. That location would not work on a rear radiator coach. Dianne made a cover for it with velcro so in freezing temperatures it would not super-cool the fuel. Just need the cooler and a length of fuel return hose to go from the engine to the cooler. Then use the original return line from there to tank. You could also install it up front in the windstream just forward of the tank. Would probably require two new hoses: one to extend the original line forward and one from the cooler back to the tank. I was thinking the same, just forward of this bay is suspension, but lots of moving parts being a Roadmaster, not sure if I could do it without risking something hitting it, it would have to be mounted low. I was also thinking about installing one with a fan near the coolant package, I have enough room between the rear bumper area and the coolant package to hide a tire and wheel (getting something that heavy in and out would be impossible), fab up a few brackets and I would be in business with a fuel cooler. http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15850/10002/-1 I called the manufacture for the above product, Correct fittings already on it and it is approved for diesel fuel. Not expensive either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 8, 2016 What about the 4.8 amp draw...what are you using for electric supply? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Brett, just curious; with the fuel at a lower temperature, did the coach run any different? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Just now, Manholt said: What about the 4.8 amp draw...what are you using for electric supply? I would have to run a line back to it for power with a relay. I am considering an automatic thermostatic switch. Just trying to figure out at what temp would be ideal for it to switch on if I go that route. I'm thinking the fan route would be best, DW has a habit of sending us across the Mojave in July, last time it was 121 degrees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Before going to the effort, consulted an engineer at Caterpillar who I had worked with on writing the "Understanding Coach/RV Performance" document. He said that they (and suspect ALL diesel manufacturers) have published HP/torque and fuel consumption specs based on fuel of a a certain temperature. Don't recall exactly, but the number 80 degrees F sticks in my mind. Easy test to see how it affects performance on your coach: Do a 0-60 after driving for more than 1/2 day with fuel level around 1/4 or so. Fill up and do another 0-60. Suspect that even though you have added hundreds of pounds of fuel, that your times will be better on the new/cool fuel. Ya, feel the nozzle as you fuel to make sure the tanker truck did not just drop off a load after sitting in the 100 degree heat all day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Makes sense! The reason for the mod in the fuel delivery system is to provide adequate fuel to the Injection pump thus by reducing heat with a steady clean fuel flow, so increasing it at the tank wouldn't help my end goal. The coach always seems to perform better in the cooler weather, I wasn't sure if it was caused by cooler fuel or cooler air intake or a combination of both. Cooler air charge always is an improvement Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Cooler air= horse power for sure! Cooler fuel = horse power as well. The big boys racing in PCA used to pack ice around the fuel tank to keep temperatures down. I wrapped all the plenums to and from charge air cooler and the exhaust in the 3126b Zanzibar. If it is metal and hot in the engine compartment it will absorb to the ambient temperature in the engine compartment. My reasoning was if it, the heat can not reach those pipes or get out of what is directing the exhaust out, it will all be cooler and ultimately result in better performance. It is just one of those things that will add another tenth to the over all but they all add up. I just wrapped the exit plenum on the Panther. I will not wrap the input as it is to short to be beneficial. The exhaust is next and it will be a project. The wrap comes in fifty foot lengths and rolling that wad around in tight quarters difficult. Lastly Summit Racing sells turbo boots to encapsulate the turbo and retain the heat in the exhaust. I have not done this...yet. Bill Edwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted August 8, 2016 Yup, cool air IN THE ENGINE= more HP. But, cold ambient air= increased aerodynamic drag (ask any pilot about lift in cold vs hot conditions). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Brett, Right you are, but I am not trying to fly this thing...maybe low to the ground but not in the air. Bill Edwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Ya, but it would be great to loose some of the aerodynamic drag! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 9, 2016 The difference between Spring and Summer in Texas for me, at 64 on CC, is .8-1.4 mpg. Some days the wind is more favorable than others. Ref drag: Build a bullet RV.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted August 9, 2016 I have thought about the space after removing the tank, In my cluttered mind I visualized a large box extended from side to side to hold all of those long items we all carry, Ladder, awning pull rod, extra lengths of sewer hose (capped of course), Flag poles, and so on. Right now in Texas we all have a real money savings going on. No need to run the hot water heater. The sun on the coach will keep the water in the tank warm enough to shower and wash dishes. If you don't have an insulation on your water hose you can almost get scalded before the cool water get through. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Herman. Don't remind me. I have another 7 days in Alto, NM...here I'm currently running the heater, it's 53! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaypsmith Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Herman, we used to take along two hundred feet of black hose and leave it coiled in the sun hooked to an outside shower, and you are right the water was almost scalding sometimes. Also, propane weighs about 4.24 # per gallon, so 60 gallons = 254 plus tare. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Herman, I added sewer hose storage tubes to the wall, in the one photo you can see one. For the time being I am storing extra fluids up there. If the other side locked I would keep my tools up there once its sealed up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted August 9, 2016 Kay, interesting story, the scrap guy that took the tank called me after he drained 10 gallons of oil out of the old tank, the tank itself weighed 121 lbs plus the oil. Oddly when I removed the regulator it also was full of oil, I left a trail from the coach to the trash can. I am no LPG expert of any kind, but it seemed excessive to me, almost like the tank maybe should have been drained as a PM every so often? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
