BillO

AndyShane, I replied to your query about the 5psi safety factor in the other thread I started. Essentially, a margin for the nature of RVers to take on more things in shopping, etc. while on the go rather than a real tire issue. I can appreciate the issue of reviewing a TPMS before starting out because I've been doing that with standard pressure gauge since I bought my coach. I also understand that temp extremes could cause some false triggering. However, I am more interested in normal driving response to the alarms. From the responses above I'm sensing that a 12.5% drop in tire pressure is no cause to immediately pull to the shoulder but that I should just be planning to slow down and look for a convenient stopping spot to check things out.

Andy, I cannot give you a definitive answer on your questions, but will give it a try. First, the whole business of total axle weight versus axle end weight came about from the initial responses and references. Michelin puts out two different sets of load/inflation tables -- one for truckers who typical roll over Cat scales at truck stops and get total axle weight and a second for RVers that SHOULD be getting axle end weights because of the potential for considerable differences due to unequal load balance. If you read my first entry in detail, you'll see that I started with load at the axle ends. However, an early respondent referenced the truckers' load/inflation table so I converted to total axle weight simply to make my point. I did use, and am still using, the axle end loads for my own calculations. Second, the whole business of a tire pressure safety factor doesn't come from anything to do with the tires themselves, but rather the nature of RVing. A truck will go over a scale once, settle the load into a stable pattern which is then pretty much constant until delivery. In contrast, we RVers tend to measure the axle end loads once (or maybe if you're really diligent once/year) and then go on our way. Part of that "on our way" likely includes shopping trips, souvenir collecting, etc., as well as maybe tanking up more water than normal for a convention or the like. Those actions end up adding to that initial spot weight. The safety factor is more a safety for our behavior than because the tire charts are wrong. Perhaps you are more careful in what you do with, or bring into, your motor home in terms of weight. I'm still learning after only 3 years of fulltiming and adding/subtracting things as I go so the safety margin is worthwhile for me.

After carefully considering the info here, as well as talking with a couple tire dealers and a Michelin tech rep I finally went with the Michelin XZA3+ tires in the H (16 ply) rating. These tires allowed me to drop tire pressure 10 psi both front and rear while still being ~10 psi above minimum for the tire load (which is actually a bit more than safety factor than the Michelin rep suggested) Whether its the tires, the inflation pressure or both the change in ride is pronounced. The gravel roads at my common campground no longer feel so much like an old fashioned washboard and the road/bridge gaps feel more like a bump and less like driving over a tank trap. I'm pretty happy with the immediate result, but time will tell about durability, etc.

Having just invested a goodly sum in six new Michelin tires I want to protect that investment with a TPMS. I've pretty much settled on the Pressure Pro system, but have a bit of concern over their warning limits. I'd like to hear how others using the Pressure Pro deal with it, or if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill. My concern is best illustrated by example using my steer tires. After weighing at all corners and checking the Michelin load/inflation tables the minimum pressure for my front tires is 95 psi. Many people here (and also the Michelin tech rep I asked) suggest adding 5 psi to that for safety which brings tire pressure to a round 100 psi. Now the first low pressure warning for Pressure Pro is at 12.5% below set point. Consequently, that first indicator will be at 87.5 psi which is already 8% below minimum safe pressure and suggests to me an immediate slow down and pull over reflex. (I admit that this may be influenced by having an inner dual tire go essentially flat between stops with my old tires) Do Pressure Pro users compensate for this by running slightly higher initial pressures (so the first warning is at or slightly above minimum pressure to provide time to react) or just run a little slower with less than minimum pressure until a safe, convenient stopping place comes up? I'll be really interested in Pressure Pro users' perspectives. Thanks, Bill

A couple the handiest things for out-of-the-way storage are Rubbermaid type storage boxes and a long hook. In the basement you can use pretty good size storage containers. Under the bed you might find the ones made for underbed storage at home (the low profile ones, sometimes with wheels) might fit. The long hook lets you retrieve those containers when you push them way back and you may already have it. I use the same long hook that was supplied to pull the awnings down. The other tactic with smaller refrigerators is to buy in smaller package quantities. For example, instead of the family size mayo, I buy the equivalent in two smaller jars. One goes in the fridge and the other in back-up dry goods stores. It is a bit more expensive that way, but in return you get a more widely stocked fridge.

I think you'll find that everyone has their own style and over time you'll work into yours. Until then, I'll offer a few observations on my own transition (which you might take with a grain of salt since I'm a single male who moved into a 40' coach). Like you I had a limited time to move out of the house after selling it. I didn't try to pack everything away immediately, but traveled for a while with things in boxes on the floor and in bays until I got a basic plan. I found that the basic pots, pans, dishes, etc. went into the limited cabinets and drawers around the galley. Those things do need some buffering to keep them from shifting around and banging when you go over bumps. I just got a few rolls of the non-sticking shelf liner that is like a rubberized mesh and cut pieces to put between, or around, the pieces. The cooking items that I don't use frequently (big pots, pans, etc.) went into a rubbermaid container in the basement. Those Rubbermaid type storage containers are a good way in general to organize the basement and keep things separated. Some masking tape and a permanent marker will let you label contents until you're reasonably sure that things are stable at which point you can just mark the containers directly. Make sure to take some measurements of the basement bays before buying the containers. I bought several that would stack two-high in my bays, giving more flexibility in compartmentalizing things. Foodstuffs got distributed around the galley area depending on frequency of use and cabinet configuration much as you would at home, except for the buffering to keep things in place under motion (still working on that for the spice rack ). Some people will use the basement for extra foods, but I find that traveling a lot in TX makes that a dicey proposition for me (too humid). Clothes pretty much got hung up or folded and put on shelves pretty much the same as in the house with just some basic sorting for off-season or infrequently used things in the back. The same idea with stuff like towels and sheets. Really seasonal things like down comforter, winter jackets, etc. get relegated to rubbermaid containers in the back of basement bays until you pull them out and use in-season. The same thing applies to occasional or seasonal use hardware (like extra dining chairs or space heaters) . They've gotten tucked into the deep recesses of the basement until needed. A couple of things to consider as you go about loading -- especially if you have/acquire some heavier items. You do want to keep the overall MH weight within, or below, the design limits as listed on the manufacturer's plaque. It's also good to try to keep the load balanced side-to-side, with front-to-back loading depending on your axle capabilities. I suspect others will come along with a lot more organization tips and ideas that you can incorporate into your own way of living and traveling. Have fun while you do it.

I've been using Dish now for just a bit over a year. I signed up for the a mid-range package that included most of the key channels without the big chunk of sports channels as the most cost-effective option for a non-sports fan. This came with the "free" HD which required picking up three different satellites at each stop (new compass angle, declination and dish skew each time). With the cheap, imprecise dish mounting hardware (set an angle and watch everything sag away from it as soon as I let go) this became a regular exercise in frustration. I finally picked up a Winegard carryout automatic and am a much happier camper. I have the basic remote control receiver with a single TV in living area and don't worry about recording programs so it might be a bit basic for some. Dish didn't have any problem with an RV-only installation (no house for a permanent installation) and regularly switches me over to the local stations in each area that I've parked to date. That part may get tested this summer as my plans are for New England in the summer and then down the East Coast in the fall where Dish admits they don't have as many local TV franchises.

To add to Briarhopper's comments, I suspect that the tougher construction and added sidewall material of the XZE will make for a stiffer ride, but will give added protection if you tend to rub against curbs or do a lot of tight turns on rough roads. My own experience with another brand of similar "regional" construction was that it made my coach ride like a dump truck. In addition, the XZE has more tread which may compensate for wear over-the-road but according to one expert will reduce your mileage some and cause the tire to run hotter (see "confusion over G versus H rating " thread for some comments on that). When I discussed similar issue with both dealer and Michelin rep they suggested XZA3+ instead of the XZE in my particular case for the above reasons.

I'll offer up a couple of possibilities from my own experience with a different brand MH. Is there a master switch somewhere (most likey around a DC fuse panel) that may have been inadvertently turned off or flipped itself off without power? My coach has separate master switches for house and chassis circuits that once got turned off by a well-meaning friend while setting up at a campground, causing a good deal of hook-up confusion. Does the coach have a built-in security system? That may open chassis circuits when power is interupted and need to be reset with the remote.

Tom, Thanks very much for answering my question on time vs. mileage transynd changes. I did think that the four year recommendation by Allison was a bit extreme for a motorhome. In a number of your responses (including the one to my question) you have mentioned using an oil analysis to check the Transynd. Assuming that I am not the only one ignorant of such things I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile to discuss where to get that kind of analysis done and what it entails. For example, would it be the same oil analysis that one might get at Speedco for engine oil or does one need to draw a sample and send it off somewhere? Thanks again, Bill

Hi Tom, I posted this question in the Class A part of the forum, but you may not be monitoring that anymore so I'll repeat here. Edited to delete as I noticed that you answered the question in the Class A Motorhome area. Thanks, Bill

As I posted earlier, the dealers will want to take them from their inventory if they have them. I did find a dealer here in Texas (Strouhal, with several Texas locations including 3 in the greater Houston area) that actually sent their truck to Michelin's warehouse in Houston to get my tires. As a result I was able to get tires less than 3 month old. Strouhal also gave me a $200 credit for my old tires so that the total out-the-door for 6 tires, new stems, mounting,dynamic balancing (off vehicle only) and alignment was just about $3900 for XZA3+ 275/80R22.5 LRH.

The two dealers that I talked with both mentioned pulling inventory out of stock unless the tires were something that they didn't have on hand. If the tires weren't in inventory they offered two or three choices: wait for the next full truckload shipment from MIch, pay to ship them over from another dealer location or simply go to the other location that had them in stock. I don't think that there is enough margin in this program to cover shipping 6 or 8 tires anywhere in a special shipment. Probably the best bet is to confirm production date code with the dealer (if possible) before committing.

I've had the same experience with the dash A/C in my 17-year-old unit even though the major components were all replaced to upgrade to R134. One tech pointed out that there is a lot of tubing (rubber, composite?) snaking from front to back in the DP's. If there is a leak along one of those lines there isn't any good way to see it even with the dye. It seems to me that one could evacuate the system, disconnect those lines at the right point, plug them, then pressurize at the schrader valves to either isolate or rule out the lines as leak sources. If the lines are the leak source, I'm not sure what to do as they are well buried in the coach chassis (at least in my case). However, you would at least know the cause. If the lines prove not to be leak sources, then some more diligent work needs to be done around front and rear connections. One area that a tech found in my coach was a leaking weep hole on the high pressure connector to the compressor (that did not, however, solve my overall problem).

Cheers, Bill

Thanks for clearng up the G versus H mystery for me. I guess I'll just have to make a decision and give one of the Michelin tires It's pretty hard to beat them with the new FMCA agreement. Regards, Bill

Tireman9, Thanks for researching the issue for us. I think that the fact that these tires were developed to different standards goes a ways toward answering the question. "Now introduce the fact that you take a tire originally intended for the European market and try to match it to the tire developed for the US market and convert the units then do the rounding such as the 123 psi for the max of the European LR-H etc etc and you end up with confused customers." (emphasis added). That statement is sure correct ... and that's from someone with advanced engineering training! Now, the million (perhaps thousands) dollar question for me. If the H tires are a more substantial tire (my reading of the implication that they can carry more load at a given pressure, as well as go to higher overall pressure/load) are they likely to give a harsher ride than a corresponding G rated tire inflated 10 psi more? Can that question even be answered without actually installing and riding on the tires? The second question I still have to resolve is the distinction of regional versus long-haul tire characterization. I was originally looking at the Michelin XZE tire which is available only in H rating and is billed as Regional haul tire. The regional haul description seemed to fit my general RV driving -- a few hundred miles per day and then a number of tight curves with back and forth to get into a campground slot. I also looked at the XZA3 that you suggested earlier. This comes in both G and H as you noted and Michelin bills this as a Long-Haul tire. Is a regional haul tire (made to endure more scrubbing, etc.) likely to have a stiffer sidewall that would ride harsher than a long haul tire? Conversely, is a long-haul tire likely to suffer more from the typical daily maneuvering of RV life? I did see that on their RV tire site, Michelin lists the XRV tire as "long-haul" type. I also like the 7 year/700,000 mile casing warranty on the XZA3. Not that I'll ever reach the mileage, but the duration is appealing. Thanks again. Bill

RM, Having gone through some similar issues on an older coach I'll offer my two cents. Is the pump that was replaced a single stage (i.e. one set of gears/vanes with two outlets to PS and motor) or a stacked assembly (separate pumps for each application bolted together for the same shaft drive)? If it is single stage, there should be a priority valve in the output side that builds pressure to the PS and then diverts to the fan motor. If this wasn't replaced/rebuit with the new pump it might be possible that the valve is not switching correctly to provide motor output flow. If you follow the advice above for bleeding the line, and don't get any flow to the motor that valve would be a possible suspect (if, in fact your pump is single stage). Whatever the diagnosis, another source for some Sauer hydraulic pumps/motors could be: John Davis @ John Davis RV Service Tel: 541-306-6473 E-mail: jdrv1@yahoo.com He has done a fair bit of work on these hydraulic systems, particularly for Country Coach application but not limited to CC. His comment to me was that he got so tired of quoting the kind of lead times that you've experienced that he has developed local suppliers for parts and complete units, as well as some contacts for legacy part suppliers. In my case he didn't have a local supplier for my Webster pump (Webster was bought by Danfoss who, in turn, was bought by Sauer who then discontinued the whole line) but referred me to an outfit in Georgia that is still building Webster legacy units. Might be worth a try once you know it is the motor and have a part number. Good Luck, Bill

Tireman9, To your first point, I actually started with individual tire loads. I simply doubled the load on the most heavily loaded steer tire to match the Michelin table. Second, I do understand that Michelin (and others) might have specific designs with unusual ratings. However, the G vs H thing runs throughout much of their tire line. In the table that I took the H pressure/load numbers from the heading is actually, 275/80R22.5 LRH XDE®2+, XZA3®, XZA3®+ EVERTREAD ™, XZE® , implying that the data apply to all those models (they have a similar table for all the G ratings). "The other item is you are really looking at 10 psi difference to gain 90# load capacity per tire. I would agree that 10 is significant as this is 10% but do not think 90# is significant as it is closer to 2%." I think that you missed my point here. I went to the G and H tables and found the min inflation to carry my load for each tire rating just as if I had these tires on my coach. It's not a case of 10 psi difference to gain 90# per tire. Those are loads from differently rated tires. The actual differential within one rating is considerably higher. For the G rated tire 90 psi will support 10,740# (which was below my load, as was their data at 95psi) while 100 psi supports 11,560#. For the H rated tire 90 psi supports 11,380# (which exceeds my load) and 100 psi supports 12,380# (way more than needed). As I stated in my original post, the current Dayton tires give a pretty harsh ride when inflated to the load/inflation data (plus 5%) and I'm looking for anything that will smooth that out. Unlike a truck, my coach has a lot of things in it, beyond the driver, that suffer some from that harshness. Some on this forum have stated that simply switching from a truck-oriented tire, like Toyo, to Michelin provided a smoother ride. I can understand that in different designs and looking to take it to the next step. Finally, it is considered common wisdom that most tire failures in the RV world are due to underinflation and that we should all follow the tire manufacturer's data. I can't imagine that it is a simple web page error because the same G vs H loading tables are all over Michelin's websites in different presentations, as well as on Bridgestone's site (as a footnote, I incorrectly typed Bridgestone when I menat Goodyear in my previous post). Bottom line is that I'm still as confused as previously.

Thanks for the replies. However, I'm still confused. Tireman9, the references that you give for Firestone and Bridgestone support the premise that a given air pressure should support a given load. In both of those cases if I take my front tires with a load of 5590 pounds (that is the maximum of the two tires) they say 100 psi min regardless of tire load rating. Yet, when I look at the data you reference for Michelin I see a different story. That Michelin data is posted in total axle load, which in my case for the front axle would be 11,180 pounds. In their LRG series Michelin shows that I would need 100 psi min to support 11,560 pounds, but when I look at their LRH series I would only need 90 psi min to support 11,380 pounds. The load table for the G series gives a slightly higher safety factor simply because the next step down is below the required load. However, as minimum inflations both G and H ratings have an adequate safety factor in my mind. I'm not sure what "significant" is to you, but the 10 psi difference is significant to me and I suspect would result in a smoother ride --- If I can believe the data table. Planocat. I can easily understand that tires of different construction could have an overall higher load rating at a higher pressure. What I'm having the most trouble with is that the tires would have differing load capacities at the same pressure as Michelin's data implies.

Hi, I have a question about time vs mileage on Transynd changes. I've done the drain/fill with Transynd twice so now it's pretty much 100% Transynd which I understood would be good for something like 100,000 miles. Like many MH owners I only drive about 10,000 miles per year and figured I was probably set for 10 years except for filter changes. However, the folks at Allison told me that, regardless of miles, I should change the filters every two years and the Transynd every four years. Does this fit with your experience/recommendation?

The older coach I bought came outfitted with Dayton "G" rated tires. After weighing the coach at the corners I find that I have to inflate these tires to the point that the coach rides pretty rough. I'm starting to research replacement tires as the Daytons are getting toward the end of useful life. However, the whole tire load/inflation and rating system has me a bit confused. On some websites (Goodyear, in particular) when I look up my size (295/75R22.5) they show a load/inflation table that's identical for both G and H rated tires except that the H rated tires extend to heavier loadings. On other sites (e.g. Bridgestone) they have different tables for G vs. H rated tires with the H rated tires requiring consistently less inflation (10-15 psi) for the same loads. The Michelin data is equally confusing within its own lineup. Their comparable tire -- 275/80R22.5 -- shows load data like Goddyear for some models and data like Bridgestone for other models. I understand that there can be differences in tire construction, but also thought that there was some level of standardization in ratings and load/inflation data. Are there no industry standards? On a practical level, if I switch to one of the H rated tires that indicate lower required inflation will the heavier tire construction simply offset the lower pressure and result in the same ride?

Escapees has a decent park at the very south end of Branson (actually Hollister, but virtually part of Branson). Since it is outside of Branson proper it avoids the traffic and noise of the main town while still providing good access. The park slopes down to the water of Turkey Creek which is what gives the park its name.

Thanks Brett.

Brett, What did you do for the inner tire on the rear duals? I recently had a valve stem go bad on my inner tire. The tire dealer that fixed it said that it was likely caused by the valve stem extensions through the outer tire (with rubber doughnuts in the outer rim) having slight, but constant, relative motion that wore down the valve stem gasket. While I was in the tire dealer another MH owner was having new tires with sensors installed. He had purchased super long tire valves (about 9 inches) for the inners to add the sensors out where they were accessible. He shared the info with me and those long valve stems were about $125 from his source. The tire dealer claimed neither those long valves nor extensions through the outer tire were a good idea for the same reason above.