Surviving A Tire "Blowout"

[tireman9]

Over the past few months there have been a couple items in the news and on the Internet about tire failures on RVs and buses. The videos are pretty dramatic.

http://tinyurl.com/h4f7ykr

http://tinyurl.com/gmvclne

Most on this forum are in motorhomes. Many also pull a toad but a few own or have friends with trailers or may even find themselves pulling a trailer ( See our Presidents Message in November FMCA magazine) so I will also include some information for those times.

First, for tire failure on toad or trailer or the rear duals or tag of a motorhome it is critical that the driver is notified as soon as possible that there has been a failure or that one is about to occur. The only way I know of gaining this knowledge is with a TPMS that can alert the driver of air loss. Some TPMS can even alert the driver in the first few seconds when the inflation has dropped just a few psi from the hot running pressure.

If you do not run a TPMS then you will not learn of the pressure loss before damage has been done, as you will be depending on passing motorists to get the driver's attention. By this time, damage has been done but hopefully the toad or trailer hasn't rolled over or separated from the motorhome which could raise the level of severity of consequences dramatically.

For motorhome or bus drivers the failure of a front tire can mean a significantly different outcome, as there is the real potential of a complete loss of control if the wrong response is taken. Here we know that a warning of initial air loss may provide enough time for a thoughtful response from the driver but even having a TPMS is not a 100% guarantee as there are failures that do not involve air loss. So the question then is what actions need to be taken in the first fraction of a second after a front tire comes apart?

Thankfully there is a good instructional video of what a driver needs to do.

Here is one from Michelin   http://tinyurl.com/hjuyu4m

and another similar video.

Yes, the advice is not intuitive to the average driver but it can work. It has been demonstrated numerous times that there is both proper and improper driver response to a tire failure. Sadly many drivers have ended up turning an inconvenience into a tragedy.

A driver needs to stop and think about what to do and to take a moment  -  frequently  -   to help implant the correct response so it can become an automatic response. You do have plenty of time to think about this as you drive down the highway.  I would suggest that if you spent as little as 10 seconds thinking about the correct response of maintaining control first then slowing down second rather than just stomping on the brakes just once an hour every hour when driving you might find that the action might become automatic. We all know that practice and repetition can make athletes better at their "game" well in this case practice, at least in thought, can make you a safer driver in the "job" of getting yourself and family safely to your destination a reality.

 

[grandpanana]

Thank you for the reminders and suggestion on how to make this the 'auto' response. 

 

Cathi

[manholt]

Have not had a front blow out in about 30 years, but I do remember in my mind what not to do and what to do!  The biggest problem, for me anyway, is that your "power steering" disappears, you still have it, but because of a front tire loss of air, you got to hang on and fight to hold the coach in control.  Hard to keep off of brake, you will be surprised at how fast you go from 65mph to 10!  Turn on signal or emergency blinkers ASAP after you have control and ease over to shoulder.

Best thing of course is that you'll never need to find out.  TPMS should be mandatory on all RV's...It's not cheap, but then what would it cost to replace half the side of a RV?  Or a life? 

[blakeloke]

Tireman,

Thank you for the post and links to videos.  I've already sent the link to RV: the Critical Factor to friends and family!

Carl.....I'll order my TPMS today!

Blake

[five]

I respect your knowledge and opinion, Tireman, but I do not buy the "step on the throttle" response offered by Michelin.  As evidenced by the first link in the OP's post, the last thing that driver needed was more forward thrust as it appears he was going too fast anyway.  I have posted, in detail, a RF blowout we had last year.  Rather than repeat that entire post here is a synopsis:

I've had two blow outs, the most recent was a RF tire in May 2015.  The last thing I wanted was more speed or more forward thurst.  I slowed (did not brake), maintained control and got off the road.  The Michelin video sounds good and looks good, however, all the scenarios are scripted with safety the primary consideration.  It's like a lot of "school solutions," every aspect of the demonstration is planned.  However, when doing it for real, I doubt it's merit. 

 

As for the comment: "A driver needs to stop and think about what to do and to take a moment  -  frequently  -   to help implant the correct response so it can become an automatic response." That sounds good, however, I've been flying helicopters and airplanes since the 60s and an FAA instructor in both for many of those years.  Your response in an emergency...and that's what this is (see the first tape)...must be automatic.  You can think about it all you want but when that tire fails (or aircraft engine fails) you must do something NOW.  There is no time to think and ponder the situation.

 

Again, Tireman, I have learned a lot about tires, RV tires especially, from your posts.  However, based on my experience, with actual emergencies, this Michelin video is not a good solution to a blow out.

[tireman9]

Five,  I understand your comment. I think the primary point is to keep your foot off the brake. I have seen a number of videos when testing tires and if the driver goes for the brake serious problems can quickly develop including roll-over. I would not worry about more speed as I doubt there are any motorhomes that leap forward if you floor the accelerator pedal. The goal is to maintain steering control - straight ahead and to move to side of the road as soon as safely possible.

Any application of the brake ( or even sudden lifting off the gas) will result in forward weight transfer. We use this in racing to get better cornering through weight transfer to the front tires which increases the turning force of the car which is exactly what you do not want in an emergency situation.

Whatever process you use it will be a pluss if you can resist the normal reaction to hit the brake.

[manholt]

FIVE.  Agree with everything in your response, with one exception.  Tireman said, you must stop and think, what to do, and do it often in order to know what to do..in the event off.  He made no mention of doing that, should it be the actual event. 

You and I have both been there...but for one who never has, you can get a pre feel for what to do, if you go thru the does in your mind often enough!

Carl

[five]

9 hours ago, Tireman9 said:

Five,  I understand your comment. I think the primary point is to keep your foot off the brake. I have seen a number of videos when testing tires and if the driver goes for the brake serious problems can quickly develop including roll-over. I would not worry about more speed as I doubt there are any motorhomes that leap forward if you floor the accelerator pedal. The goal is to maintain steering control - straight ahead and to move to side of the road as soon as safely possible.

Any application of the brake ( or even sudden lifting off the gas) will result in forward weight transfer. We use this in racing to get better cornering through weight transfer to the front tires which increases the turning force of the car which is exactly what you do not want in an emergency situation.

Whatever process you use it will be a pluss if you can resist the normal reaction to hit the brake.

Agree...don't brake for sure.  The coach is going to slow more quickly after a blow out than it normally would anyway.  That dead tire is not rolling smoothly (even if it is still on the rim) and is creating some drag.

[five]

8 hours ago, manholt said:

...You and I have both been there...but for one who never has, you can get a pre feel for what to do, if you go thru the does in your mind often enough!...

Carl

Good luck with that, but we have no choice, you cannot substitute and practice a blowout.  However, there is no substitute for actual "doing."  In aircraft we quite often shut down an engine on a twin engine aircraft or roll the throttle off in a helicopter...without telling the student.  That is the real thing...it is sudden, unexpected and you are getting no power from the engine.

[wildebill308]

On 11/10/2016 at 0:41 PM, Tireman9 said:

Over the past few months there have been a couple items in the news and on the Internet about tire failures on RVs and buses. The videos are pretty dramatic.

http://tinyurl.com/h4f7ykr

http://tinyurl.com/gmvclne

Most on this forum are in motorhomes. Many also pull a toad but a few own or have friends with trailers or may even find themselves pulling a trailer ( See our Presidents Message in November FMCA magazine) so I will also include some information for those times.

First, for tire failure on toad or trailer or the rear duals or tag of a motorhome it is critical that the driver is notified as soon as possible that there has been a failure or that one is about to occur. The only way I know of gaining this knowledge is with a TPMS that can alert the driver of air loss. Some TPMS can even alert the driver in the first few seconds when the inflation has dropped just a few psi from the hot running pressure.

If you do not run a TPMS then you will not learn of the pressure loss before damage has been done, as you will be depending on passing motorists to get the driver's attention. By this time, damage has been done but hopefully the toad or trailer hasn't rolled over or separated from the motorhome which could raise the level of severity of consequences dramatically.

For motorhome or bus drivers the failure of a front tire can mean a significantly different outcome, as there is the real potential of a complete loss of control if the wrong response is taken. Here we know that a warning of initial air loss may provide enough time for a thoughtful response from the driver but even having a TPMS is not a 100% guarantee as there are failures that do not involve air loss. So the question then is what actions need to be taken in the first fraction of a second after a front tire comes apart?

Thankfully there is a good instructional video of what a driver needs to do.

Here is one from Michelin   http://tinyurl.com/hjuyu4m

and another similar video.

Yes, the advice is not intuitive to the average driver but it can work. It has been demonstrated numerous times that there is both proper and improper driver response to a tire failure. Sadly many drivers have ended up turning an inconvenience into a tragedy.

A driver needs to stop and think about what to do and to take a moment  -  frequently  -   to help implant the correct response so it can become an automatic response. You do have plenty of time to think about this as you drive down the highway.  I would suggest that if you spent as little as 10 seconds thinking about the correct response of maintaining control first then slowing down second rather than just stomping on the brakes just once an hour every hour when driving you might find that the action might become automatic. We all know that practice and repetition can make athletes better at their "game" well in this case practice, at least in thought, can make you a safer driver in the "job" of getting yourself and family safely to your destination a reality.

 

Here is a question. in another thread the topic of driving over the speed a tire  is rated for came up. What is your thoughts on this. If you have 75 mph rated tires how fast can you drive safely?

Here is a link to the outher thread.

http://community.fmca.com/topic/9122-gasser-game-changer-for-me/?page=4#

 

[obedb]

Knock on wood! Been driving diesel powered vehicles many miles a year for a very long time and have never blown a steer tire. Did have one very rapid flat steer tire, but no loss of control. One drive tire that I remember, and of course, numerous trailer tires, especially when hauling ocean containers. None were life threatening to me, but a few trailer tire blowouts scared the dickens out of four wheelers that were following too close. Could see their shadow in my mirrors, but I could not see them until it happened. All over the road with evasive maneuvers. Moral of the story/ Never follow a nearby eighteen wheeler. Behind one or in the next lane and especially if he is hauling a container of any type. Ocean or Railroad. When a big rig starts around our coach, I drop the cruise control and put distance between us and the 18.  Did the same thing in a truck when I was still working. You lose maybe 20 seconds doing that. Let them go. Don't try to out run them.

A steering stabilizer might help with a blowout. Just a guess. 

[manholt]

Joe, I had Safe-T on all my gas coaches and first DP.  They all had straight front axel.  It helped in stabilizing coach in cross winds and 18 wheelers.  As for blow out on front?  Don't know, it probably did, but have nothing to compare to!

Carl

[wayne77590]

The rated speed is the specifications the Mfg places on the tire that assures it will perform as they state.  Example: Past the rated speed traction could be a problem.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Wayne77590

[hobart]

Got to agree with video on this. Had left front let go and applied power, control, then gradual slowdown as taught 40 years ago for tractor trailer, it works and will wife was near cealing did not feel any panic as the coach acted as expected.

[manholt]

Hobart.  Nice to get more than one feed back!  I really don't remember if I got off gas or not, I do know that I kept my foot off the brake until I had control and clear vision of traffic, before heading for shoulder! 

Thankfully, nock on wood, I have not had one on a 22.5", all the others where on 19.5" and most on pre radial tires!

Carl

[obedb]

Hobart,

Staying on the power until you feel that you have control was something that I forgot to mention. Have read that recommended in trucking magazines.

As I said, I never had to do it, but it makes sense in the case of a tractor trailer. Eight drive tires right behind you with up to 34,000 pounds hugging the road.  Obviously not the same with a motorhome, but staying off of the brakes, if you can, until you have control is very good advice.

Have seen a lot of 18 wheelers sitting on the shoulder with a blown steer tire. Guess they knew what to do.

[tireman9]

On 11/15/2016 at 10:10 AM, WILDEBILL308 said:

Here is a question. in another thread the topic of driving over the speed a tire  is rated for came up. What is your thoughts on this. If you have 75 mph rated tires how fast can you drive safely?

Here is a link to the outher thread.

http://community.fmca.com/topic/9122-gasser-game-changer-for-me/?page=4#

 

If a tire is rated for 75 then 75 is the max you should drive. Not average or often but ever.   Ya I know your are bopping along at 72,5 and feel you just have to pass that truck.

The tire industry has seen an increase in tire failures over the past few years even with no change in tire designs that worked well for years. as more states increased speed limits and truckers ran faster. In the past truck tires didn't need speed rating when 60 to 65 was the speed limit.

 

Yes driving 76 does not mean the tire will fail the next mile but you are consuming the finite life of your tires faster that they wear so you are in dangerous territory as belt separations are very hard to detect. With enough cumulative damage the tire may fail at 70 or 60 or 50 months after your speed run at 78 across Montana.