MikenChris Report post Posted January 16, 2017 I have a 2015 Winnebago Via on the Sprinter 3500 chassis. I'm planning on rotating my tires that have 6000 miles on them (Continental 215/85R16 VancoFourSeason) for 2 reasons; 1) wear on outer edges of front tires and 2) a non repairable puncture Left outer dual with suspected stress on left inner dual prompting purchase of 2 new tires. There are alloy wheels front and outer duals, steel wheel on inner duals, so need to dismount and remount to rotate. The duals seem to be wearing evenly. My plan is new tires to front, fronts to outer duals, right inner dual to left inner dual and right outer dual to right inner dual. Is there any issue with mounting/remounting tires? I would prefer to have the new tires in the rear but I'm concerned about mixing new tires with the worn tires on the same axle. The rotation recommendation from Mercedes is front to inner duals, inner duals to front, and outer duals side to side. I've also noticed some internet comments about the camber affecting outer wear on the Sprinter chassis front tires, if anyone has specifics on that it would be helpful. Thanks for your input. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted January 16, 2017 MikenChris, Welcome to the FMCA Forum. It is more important to have both tires on one side in back the same height/diameter (so they equally share the load) than to mix those with more wear and those with less on one side in back. So, both old fronts to the left rear, new tires in front, original tires on the right side in back. If no sign of uneven wear, I would not bother to rotate the old tire in the right rear with only 6,000 miles on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianbullock Report post Posted January 16, 2017 Wear on the outer edge of the front tires sounds like an alignment issue to me. Would suggest getting an alignment done first before replacing the tires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted January 16, 2017 8 hours ago, MikenChris said: I have a 2015 Winnebago Via on the Sprinter 3500 chassis. I'm planning on rotating my tires that have 6000 miles on them (Continental 215/85R16 VancoFourSeason) for 2 reasons; 1) wear on outer edges of front tires and 2) a non repairable puncture Left outer dual with suspected stress on left inner dual prompting purchase of 2 new tires. There are alloy wheels front and outer duals, steel wheel on inner duals, so need to dismount and remount to rotate. The duals seem to be wearing evenly. My plan is new tires to front, fronts to outer duals, right inner dual to left inner dual and right outer dual to right inner dual. Is there any issue with mounting/remounting tires? I would prefer to have the new tires in the rear but I'm concerned about mixing new tires with the worn tires on the same axle. The rotation recommendation from Mercedes is front to inner duals, inner duals to front, and outer duals side to side. I've also noticed some internet comments about the camber affecting outer wear on the Sprinter chassis front tires, if anyone has specifics on that it would be helpful. Thanks for your input. Welcome to the forum. I agree with Ian that the first thing is to get a good front end alignment I might even inquire about a all wheel alignment. That way you know everything is set right. Wolfe10 is correct in how to "rotate" your tires. Let us know what the shop has to say. Most shops will give you a print out showing the before and after settings on your alignment. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted January 16, 2017 Mike, If you are planning on having your coach alignment checked contact Winnebago and see if they can send you the Alignment Specifications. This way your technician will have correct data and not be guessing. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikenChris Report post Posted January 16, 2017 All good ideas, thanks for the information. I'll try to update after I get feedback from Winnebago and the alignment check. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted January 17, 2017 If you do rotate, be sure to pay attention to Brett's advice above. Your original plan is not a good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikenChris Report post Posted January 20, 2017 More information, I received permission to post this from Winnebago's Tom Pilgrim who was quick to provide information: Good Afternoon Michael, It is difficult to provide some of the information you’ve requested with the limited information provided... & not being able to inspect the condition / wear pattern on your steer-tires makes this a guessing game, but here goes. The 6,000 miles on the odometer does show that the wear must be fairly aggressive... but is the wear ‘camber-related’ or perhaps ‘toe-in’ related? I’d suspicion the latter due to the fact the caster & camber are ‘fixed’ / non-adjustable.... i.e. factory set by Mercedes-Benz. I’d be looking for any ‘feathering’ of the tread across the face of the tire...or is the tire actually wearing smoothly? Push the palm of your hand across the face of the tire – smooth-in (vs rough) equals Toe’d-in..... & smooth-out equals toe’d-out... Simply, tires ‘talk’ and someone needs to listen & interpret. The request for alignment specifications on the Sprinter chassis is a bit more difficult to provide! Mercedes Benz requires usage of a special tool – i.e. a Romess Gauge, to verify the chassis ride-height. Simply, they / M-B requires a reference number or ‘value’ from this gauge which reflects the weight on the steer axle... & this measurement is referenced to a chart to determine the Camber & Caster settings needed. This tool is also used to determine the correct Toe setting... All-said, customers are basically required to visit a capable Mercedes Benz dealer that possess this tool.... plus the special adapters (if needed) that provide clearance to equipment installed in the aftermarket. Since this gauge isn’t a mandatory tool, and not all M-B dealers have alignment equipment in-house, so you will need to phone the local M-B dealer(s) to question & verify who’s equipped & capable! Additionally, the average alignment technicians will certainly benefit knowing the scaled weight of your coach ‘loaded as normal’... The Sprinter chassis is a truck chassis and everyone loads their truck / RV differently. Weight & the distribution of the load has a direct affect on the chassis ride-height and can affect handling & tire wear. Alignment machines simply measure angles, etc...... it’s up to the technician to drive the vehicle & verify any handling issues, interpret the tire wear that exists... & then compare the actual / existing settings to the specs... & then factor-in the visible wear to determine what needs to be addressed. As a convenience to you, I’ve provided a little info regarding ‘tire inflation pressure’ .... you’ll note that this is actually information from Michelin’s load chart (which would mirror your Continentals).... as I couldn’t find a load chart on Continental’s web-site. I think you may want to have an individual that’s knowledgeable / able to inspect your tires & help you determine the best course of action regarding placing the original steer-tires into service on the rear axle. Hope this information is helpful! Best Regards, Tom Pilgrim Service Advisor Sr. Service Trainer And a followup note from Tom: I’ve done a little research regarding this special gauge.....http://www.romess.de/index.php/products/vehicle-gauging/cm-09606. It appears to be a simple electronic inclinometer, but the ‘tool’ has mounting / indexing points that must contact predetermined suspension components to verify the ride-height on the steer-axle. Unlike a typical Sprinter delivery van, our M-B chassis will be ‘loaded’ at all times...... with the customer’s personals being the ?-factor that we cannot 2nd guess. I wish I could provide a single alignment specification, but can understand M-B’s logic with wanting ‘the rest of the story’ too! I had to call around for a while to find a place to do the alignment, I ended up with an appointment about an hour's drive from me in Stockton CA at Hewitt's Alignment. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted January 20, 2017 Mike, Tom makes several nice points about the MB alignment. He spoke of the Toe in/out being the most common culprit. Never heard of the running of the hand across the tread to check for in or out wear. Sounds reasonable to me. The one thing he didn't mention what the desired Tow In should be. Maybe you might see if he will give you that specification. Herman alignment specs.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 20, 2017 Have you had your coach weighed ? Front, back, each corner? With toad? Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikenChris Report post Posted January 20, 2017 Thanks to all that have chimed in with your good suggestions. I am getting the coach weighed locally (with and without toad - a Thistle class sailboat) but can only do axles and the entire rig, not each corner. I'll try to get the corners done at an FMCA rally. For my alignment appointment I'll load up as close to my usual travel status as possible. I'm leaving the tires where they are so the technician can see the wear and then rotate them as suggested, keeping the same sizes (meaning the same amount of wear, they are all the same size tire) together. I'll also ask for a certificate with the alignment specs as done for a reference. I contacted Continental tires. On their web site they have a table for all their tires with load range, pressure for each load per tire position, except for the 215/85R16. When I asked for that information they replied "see your manufacturer's label". Winnebago places a revised, after build recommendation, but like their Sr. Advisor suggested, for more specific inflation numbers I'll check the Michelin tables that seem to mirror Continental's. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted January 20, 2017 Mike, when you get it weighed or the alignment makes sure its loaded as you would normally operate it. I suspect they are going to tell you the alignment was out. All chassis manufactures that I have crossed in my career recommend having an alignment performed after the body (in you case the house) is installed, as it makes the chassis and suspension flex the weight distribution changes on the chassis and knocks out the alignment that was set at the chassis plant. In my experience only Ambulances have this done, everything else is usually way out when put on an alignment machine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tireman9 Report post Posted January 25, 2017 One important item Brett mentioned is matching the tire OD. Here is a post you need to review along with the referenced posts. June 17 2013 post on how to properly measure the tires. You do have a good plan on placing the new tires on the front. Placing the current fronts on the rears needs to be based on matching tire OC (easier to measure than OD. Tire dimensions are taken when mounted and inflated. Unmounted dimensions are NOT valid for the purpose of dual matching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikenChris Report post Posted January 26, 2017 Thanks again for all the input, I'm learning a lot about tires and alignment. And now, for those interested, (most of) the rest of the story.. I took the coach to Hewitt Alinement Service in Stockton. They test drove it, inspected the tires, and checked the alignment. They quoted a price of $98 for alignment but charged only $60 when they found everything to spec (nice people, took time to go over what they found). They noted some differences in tire wear pattern (LF inner wear, RF wear both shoulders but not severe) and found a nail in the shoulder of another tire without an air leak. I have been consistent about checking air pressure while the tires are cold before I went anywhere, inflating to the Winnebago after coach construction recommended 61 psi. Checking my tire gauge against Hewitt's revealed mine had a 4 psi lower reading so I've been inflating the tires to 65 psi. Any other Sprinters out there? My specs were 0 deg Camber, 3.5 and 4 degrees positive caster, and 1/32" toe in. The new rotation plan after disposing of Left Rear inner, Rear outer, and FR tires: Move spare to Left Rear paired with new tire, put the other 2 new tires on the front. The FL tire with minor shoulder wear goes to spare. To maintain the wear evenly I will follow manufacturer's recommendations for rotation every 4k miles provided the OC's match (included in cost of tire at America's Tires), and follow up with weighing the corners to make sure the wear is not due to uneven weight distribution. Thank you tech at Hewitt for finding the second nail in the RF tire before anything happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 26, 2017 Unless you only drive a couple of thousand miles a year, your going to be busy on the 4K rotation! Even MB diesels need to be run, most all owners that I know, with DP's myself included, put on 7-12K a year! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikenChris Report post Posted February 8, 2017 In reply to my original question, Continental had this to say: Unfortunately, We do not agree, our official statement is as follows: It is recommended to replace all ground contact tires at the same time. If you do not replace all ground contact tires at one time, then at least, replace all the tires on one axle. Based our recommendation, you should purchase 3 tires. put all 3 and the new spare on the rear. take the two best tires from the rear to the fronts. Tires can be unmounted and remounted several times if done properly without damage. Best Regards, Chris Davis Technical Product Service Engineering Manager Their reply was in response to my original need to replace the left duals, recommending I purchase an additional tire. If you follow the thread above, you'll see I ended up needing a third tire anyway so this worked out for the best. I was trying to avoid unmounting the right duals but I think I'll follow Chris' recommendation and move the 2 new front to the right dual and use right duals (with 6000 miles on them) on the front. Now the R and L duals will be all new (including the unused spare that has a '14 manufacturing date). Although the spare is 2 years older, it was kept where the sun doesn't shine ;-). I think I've about beat this topic to death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tireman9 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 It is easiest to suggest people replace all tires at the same time as few understand the importance of matching duals. I did replace one tire when I had a tire problem. I saw no reason to scrap a good tire or in my case 5 good tires because of a one tire problem.. The new tire went on the front and I then measured all the others and made sure my duals matched OD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Too bad the practice of tire truing is not done any more you could use the equipment to match duals. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
