No power to house, generator, on 2002 Diplomat

[TimWright]

I have no power to anything that the house batteries power, and the generator will not start, even using the "battery boost" switch.

My batteries are fully charged, I get 12.6v from them and through the master switch as far as the cable that disappears into the nether regions of the bus (2002 Monaco Diplomat 40ft).

I have looked at every fuse that seems applicable and flipped every breaker that seems applicable, including the one on the generator, inverter, and the 50 amp in the bedroom as well as the GFI reset in the master bath.

In the electrical panel below the driver's side window is a terminal with a large cable labeled "House" and when I hook up my meter to this, I get no reading. I am assuming this cable is the same one that exits the battery box in the rear (?) in which case it should have 12.6v but it does not.

So either that supposition is wrong, or I am not getting a good ground with the clamp on my meter (hooked to the suspension, exhaust, and any other metal I could find...) or there is a breaker or fuse that I have missed, or that cable has broken.

Any ideas on what fuse, breaker, or switch I have missed, or what else might be wrong?

 

Thanks in advance!

Tim

[wolfe10]

Tim,

If starting the generator is "prime concern",  pull your toad up next to it and use jumper cables.

Hopefully, someone with more specific knowledge of your 12 VDC system will chime in for that part of the issue.

[dickandlois]

Tim, Have you inadvertently turned off the power at the salesmen switch, generally right in the entry and is easily bumped.  

Rich.

[wolfe10]

Rich,

?? But, will the large gauge wire to the generator starter run through the salesman switch??

[dickandlois]

Brett mentioned getting the Generator started. Is you generator on a slide out ? You should have 12 pulse volts at the battery connection on the generator.

Rich.

19 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

Rich,

?? But, will the large gauge wire to the generator starter run through the salesman switch??

No !!! it generally connects directly to the chassis batteries and as I mentioned - there should be 12 volts at the connection point on the generator. 

No power there then got a  feeling that there is a loose ground or supply cable at the generator or right at the battery, very little in between  the 2 points.  Note They use the Chassis for the ground between the generator and batteries - 2 to 3 possible locations for interrupting the ground side. 

We know that he has 12 volts at the house battery - but not what is at the chassis / engine batteries though, Good Point thought !!!

Do you have power to the engine ignition switch ?  A bad chassis battery could pull down the house batteries enough to bring them down !!!! when the cross connect is attempted with the assist switch. 

Rich.

 

[TimWright]

The bus starts and drives just fine, it is only the "house" things that do not work - no interior lights, microwave, porch light, etc..

The inability of the generator to start is a symptom of the larger problem (it relies on the house batteries to start). I do no need it running right now, but appreciate the idea to jump it. I will tuck that in my brain for some time on the road when something like this pops up.

Likewise, I will check the voltage to the battery cable on the generator, as well as the connections- assuming I can find  and get at them (not on a slide, sadly.)

I checked the "Salesman switch" and cycled it on and off several times without success, because as noted, I bumped it once and didnt realize it.

Battery connections are all clean and tight at the batteries.

Ok, hope that helps clarify a bit more.

I appreciate the help - it just seems like the power from the house batteries is not getting to wherever/whatever it is that distributes it to the various things they power...or that the thing that distributes the power has died.

 

Thanks

Tim

 

[richard5933]

You have power through the master switch, but have you checked that you have power on both sides of the solenoid. When the "salesman" switch inside the coach is turned on there should be power to both sides of the solenoid - when the switch is off you'll have power to only one side.

The controls for the generator might be running from the house system, regardless of where it's pulling the power to actually turn the starter on the generator.

[dickandlois]

Thanks for the feedback Tim !!!

There is a strong possibility that the problem is in your  12 volt fuse panel !

If you feel comfortable, disconnect the ground connection(s) from the coach battery bank, remove the 12 volt panel cover and check for loose connections at the screw terminals for both the 12 volts and the grounds .

Note.  because of the close proximity of the 120 volt power and the DC power it would be wise to disconnect from shower power !!!

 no interior lights, porch light, etc. 12 volts - microwave, 120 volts ??? 

  The inverter should power the microwave from shore power. Possible tripped  GFI, open circuit breaker at the inverter output.  No power from the inverter when running from the coach batteries, would indicate an issue  in the same items mentioned.

Rich.

[TimWright]

I will check the solenoid, thanks. Thinking I will have no power to either side, since the big cable that attaches to the "house battery" lug in the driver side electric box has no power and the solenoid seems to get its power from that lug, but I will verify.

I do not have shore power connected and no place to do that where I store my RV and no real access to 50a or even 30a unless I check into an RV park for a while. So, not sure what would happen if on shore power.

I will double check the 12v connections to see they are tight, but pretty sure they are. This problem developed without driving the bus; last time I parked it, everything was fine, I went to take it on a short drive, and no power to house systems from the moment I pulled out of the drive.

I checked the 3 breakers on the inverter, and flipped them off and on just to be sure.

I checked the GFI in the master bath. Is there another one somewhere that I didn't find? Guess I will have to look at every outlet to be sure I didn't miss one.

Thanks again everyone, and any additional tips still appreciated.

 

Thanks

Tim

[wildebill308]

Tim, With a meter start at the battery bank start with the cable that goes to the Battery control center. It should connect to the solenoid that can tie the battery banks together. Check for power there and work out from there. 

Bill

[kaypsmith]

Most coaches these days have a fuse lug just above the battery bank, it is usually the first lug that the batteries go to coming away from the batteries, looks very similar to a solenoid but will have no small wires attached. If your coach has one of these, you can use your meter and verify very easily, black wire of the meter on any negative post in the bank, red, first to the wire going to the batteries, if voltage there, move red lead to the other post going away from the battery bank. Also be sure to check all ground connections, if they are broken down anywhere between the bank and the chassis, everything will fail because of this. As Bill said start at the bank and move outward one connection at a time. Of course if you have not done so, first is to check the salesman switch. 

[dickandlois]

Tim , this is a picture of a Monaco 12 volt circuit the should be real close to your system.

It sure looks like the generator starting power goes through one of the disconnect switches and a disconnect relay for your year coach. Top left corner of the image.

House power, so there could be a coil fuse issue, like Richard mentioned. I will look over the manual more and see if there is a drawing that pictures the coil circuit wiring from the salesmen switch.

This was taken from a secure file so I could not create a PDF file image.  Hope you have a way to enlarge if needed.

Rich.

 

[manholt]

There is also a CB on your generator.

[dickandlois]

6 minutes ago, manholt said:

There is also a CB on your generator.

Carl, Looking at some Monaco drawings and the start circuit / to engage the generator is powered from the house 12 volt  system from some where and that system is totally dead from the information offered by the OP information. 

Rich.

 

[dickandlois]

Tim, The Vintage coaches - in you coaches year used F usable Links, that where connected between the Large gauge wire terminals and the relay / solenoids coil that activates them when the switch supplies the ground point.

These links burn open and leave no visible indication of them failing, They are gray in color and are very supple - Silicon coated wire. One needs to check them with an ohm meter to see if they still are good.

In the picture there are 2 large high amperage fuses the supply the system fuses boxes - that might have failed.

If the links or the high amperage fuses have failed then, there is a good chance that something in the system shorted out, failed or a 12 volt wire made a connection to ground due to loose  terminal connection. 

I have no wiring drawing that pictures the control wiring - all I have are the drawing for the heavy gauge wiring circuits.  

Rich.

You did offer this little tidbit.    There will be a 12 volt terminal lug in that line - ether at the fuse panel or somewhere close - in most cases, as they run the cables from there source(in this case the manual disconnect switch and the post  / that feeds power to the main fuse panel !!!

In the electrical panel below the driver's side window is a terminal with a large cable labeled "House" and when I hook up my meter to this, I get no reading. I am assuming this cable is the same one that exits the battery box in the rear (?) in which case it should have 12.6v but it does not.

[TimWright]

Problem solved!

Well, more accurately, the bus is working fine again. The problem is likely unfixable, because the problem is that I am an idiot.

Since the last time I drove the bus, I had removed the batteries to clean all of the terminals and cable ends and coat them with protectant. When I drove the bus a couple of days ago, nothing that required the house batteries worked. I checked the charge on the batteries which was fine, and from there started to look for the problem. After an hour or so and I couldn't find it, I posted here.

Based on the advice given here and now armed with multiple ideas, I grabbed my Power Probe and went to my RV storage. I decided to just start at the beginning and work my way through every connection. This was based on advice here as well as my favorite Mr. Spock-ism; "If you cannot find out where the problem is, find out where it isn't."

I started in the battery box and started following all of the big cables to see where they went and suddenly, I saw a long black cable that went into a crevice between the battery box and the battery. What the??? That is weird...

So, I pulled on it and discovered I had missed putting this one on when I reinstalled the batteries. Arrrrghhhh! It must have fallen into the crevice, I didn't see it, and when I ran out of wires with free ends, I stopped looking at the photos I had taken of the batteries and thought I was done.

Had I made mention of this and anyone asked if I had reinstalled the batteries properly, I would have said "absolutely."

I apologize for wasting everyone's time on something I should have found on my own. This is what is called "the error of assumption." But, I do now have additional knowledge in case this happens for some other reason, and maybe this will all help someone else.

Again, my apologies, and I do appreciate the assistance.

 

Thanks

 

Tim

[dickandlois]

Tim, Welcome to the learning curve we have all been on and in most cases still are. 

No problem and the thing is you asked and offering our thoughts and time go with our interest to help. 

Regarding those battery cables, a number of us have also missed things. LOL

Safe travels and thanks for offering the apologies. 

Rich.

[manholt]

Thanks, I can now stop scratching my head.