GFCI Outlet No Power

[bburns8]

Does anyone know when a computer indicates a bad ABS sensor which side is #2?  Is that the driver side or passenger side of the MH?

[bburns8]

Does anyone see issues/concerns with the battery voltage readings I have attached below?

We have a brand new inverter/charger and new alternator.

[dickandlois]

 

On 11/26/2018 at 6:35 PM, bburns8 said:

Does anyone know when a computer indicates a bad ABS sensor which side is #2?  Is that the driver side or passenger side of the MH?

The common numbering system for parts used in the transportation industry is - Odd numbers Left side and Even numbers Right side for part reference.

When it comes to electrical wiring, things can get messy.

They often go by color codes and some are quit common. At other times electrical circuits go by numbers. Kind of set by corporate electrical engineering history. 

So if a circuit reads a odd number - the common side is left and the even numbers are the right side. 

This might help, but one should always contact the supplier or builder for the proper information.

Rich.

        IMHO. The chart posted is a good representation of the reading one would see from most 12 volt automotive and battery powered electrically operated system with good wiring and operating parts.

[manholt]

bburns & family, good morning!

I'm guessing that you have acid batteries for house and engine.  Carry a couple of 1 gallon jugs off desstilled water and check the level of each battery, every month, it should be at the ring of each cell.  If not, then add water up to ring.  As per Rich, under IMHO, your good to go! 

Carl C.

[richard5933]

The only thing that I see which may or may not be of concern is the voltage at the house batteries while you're plugged in (shore or generator).

That looks like it is charging at the bulk level (or whatever your charger calls the higher charge level), which is fine for a while but not where I'd want the voltage to long term.

My charger runs at 14.4v until the batteries are fully charged, then it drops a little for a short while and then finally settles in at 13.2v for a float charge. It stays at the 13.2v float charge all the time if nothing is drawing from the batteries, and once a day it goes to 14.6v for about 15 minutes to keep the batteries from having problems.

Dropping to somewhere around 13.2v is important, because continuing to charge at a higher voltage causes more out-gassing and more water evaporation.

My suggestion would be to continue taking voltage readings for a few days after the batteries are fully charged and see what happens. If you just replaced the inverter/charger, I'm sure that there are settings which would allow you to set up the charging pattern that is best for your particular battery situation.

If you are unsure of the proper charging voltages for your batteries, go to the manufacturer's website and find the data sheet. They should list the various charge voltages they recommend.

[rsbilledwards]

Confirming what Rich said. Left is in every automotive manufacture parts structure is odd  number is left and even is right. Basics is that one is drivers side looking forward and 2 right is passenger seat looking forward, it is universal in all automotive manufacturing. including the Brits. Just teasing... In the old days the Germaans put a taape wrap on wire harnesses to indicate that that wire went left so old Porsches are a piece of cake to work on electrically.

[bburns8]

The ABS light is now fixed.  They replaced the sensor on the correct tire now and the ABS light went out.

[bburns8]

9 hours ago, richard5933 said:

The only thing that I see which may or may not be of concern is the voltage at the house batteries while you're plugged in (shore or generator).

That looks like it is charging at the bulk level (or whatever your charger calls the higher charge level), which is fine for a while but not where I'd want the voltage to long term.

My charger runs at 14.4v until the batteries are fully charged, then it drops a little for a short while and then finally settles in at 13.2v for a float charge. It stays at the 13.2v float charge all the time if nothing is drawing from the batteries, and once a day it goes to 14.6v for about 15 minutes to keep the batteries from having problems.

Dropping to somewhere around 13.2v is important, because continuing to charge at a higher voltage causes more out-gassing and more water evaporation.

My suggestion would be to continue taking voltage readings for a few days after the batteries are fully charged and see what happens. If you just replaced the inverter/charger, I'm sure that there are settings which would allow you to set up the charging pattern that is best for your particular battery situation.

If you are unsure of the proper charging voltages for your batteries, go to the manufacturer's website and find the data sheet. They should list the various charge voltages they recommend.

Our house batteries before we had an issue read in the 13.2 range on shore power.  Once the new inverter/charger was installed it always reads in the 14 range on shore power.  Also, when the generator is turned on sometimes it charges the house batteries and a couple of times it has not and the battery voltage actually dropped.  Not sure if something is wrong with the new inverter/charger.

[wolfe10]

17 minutes ago, bburns8 said:

Our house batteries before we had an issue read in the 13.2 range on shore power.  Once the new inverter/charger was installed it always reads in the 14 range on shore power. 

Also, when the generator is turned on sometimes it charges the house batteries and a couple of times it has not and the battery voltage actually dropped.  Not sure if something is wrong with the new inverter/charger.

Have you PROGRAMMED the new inverter/charger?  Most are programmable.  To be "smart", they need to know things like how large is the battery bank (in amp-hrs), what battery technology (wet cell, AGM or gel) and ambient temperature (if it does not have the optional temperature probe). Your inverter/charger owners manual (or on line) outlines this easy process.

14 VDC is just find for BULK MODE, but too high for FLOAT MODE-- once batteries are charged, float voltage should be in the 13.2 range.  A little high if very cold out.

Your last statement is a puzzler, as there is no difference to the inverter/charger whether it receives 120 VAC from shore power or generator.  In fact there is only one set of wires carrying power from either source from the ATS through the 120 VAC main breaker box to the inverter/charger.

[bburns8]

5 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Have you PROGRAMMED the new inverter/charger?  Most are programmable.  To be "smart", they need to know things like how large is the battery bank (in amp-hrs), what battery technology (wet cell, AGM or gel) and ambient temperature (if it does not have the optional temperature probe). Your inverter/charger owners manual (or on line) outlines this easy process.

14 VDC is just find for BULK MODE, but too high for FLOAT MODE-- once batteries are charged, float voltage should be in the 13.2 range.  A little high if very cold out.

Your last statement is a puzzler, as there is no difference to the inverter/charger whether it receives 120 VAC from shore power or generator.  In fact there is only one set of wires carrying power from either source from the ATS through the 120 VAC main breaker box to the inverter/charger.

Yes, it is programmed.

What would cause house batteries to still read 14 VDC when plugged into shore power when they test 90% charged (12.60 range)?

[wolfe10]

1 hour ago, bburns8 said:

Yes, it is programmed.

What would cause house batteries to still read 14 VDC when plugged into shore power when they test 90% charged (12.60 range)?

14 or even 14.2 VDC is just fine right after you plug in.  When the inverter/charger first gets 120 VAC from shore power or generator, it starts in BULK MODE.

The concern is what voltage drops to once the batteries are fully charged.  So, after, say a couple of hours and on to days and weeks if plugged in, 14 is too high.

The smart part of the inverter/charger (you don't say what brand/model you have) does this automatically (higher voltage, but drops it into the 13.2-13.5 range in FLOAT MODE. 

[bburns8]

2 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

14 or even 14.2 VDC is just fine right after you plug in.  When the inverter/charger first gets 120 VAC from shore power or generator, it starts in BULK MODE.

The concern is what voltage drops to once the batteries are fully charged.  So, after, say a couple of hours and on to days and weeks if plugged in, 14 is too high.

The smart part of the inverter/charger (you don't say what brand/model you have) does this automatically (higher voltage, but drops it into the 13.2-13.5 range in FLOAT MODE. 

The inverter/charger is a Xantrex Freedom 458-20 Part number 81-2022-12 (Single in/dual out).

[dickandlois]

bburns, Could you post the Year the Coach was built? This thread has been covering an expanding number of issues. I went back through a number of your post and have not found that information.

Think you have an older Xantrex unit and it is a Modified Sine wave unit. Age can cause it's own issues. 

I'm pondering the possibility of an issue in the system control logic system and that could be affecting the proper charge point(Voltage and current) in the float level voltage. The other item that might come into play is the remote temperature sensor or connecting cable.

      There has been a lot of time spent working on, around and the battery area and fatigue from flexing can happen. So measure the resistance range of the sensor at the phone stile connector with it disconnected. THIS action will disable the logic control circuit - That means the Xanrten Charger / Inverter  should be powered OFF while this test is preformed over a period of 8 hrs. Charge control is not working.  Try to log the resistance every 30 min. doing that time line.

     The sensor can be left attached to its location outside, with a common outside temperature measuring device. The temp is just for a rough reference point. say from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.

Post the information.Temperature and Resistance!

Rich.

 

[manholt]

Rich...If memory serves, I believe it's a 2001 Fleetwood  Discovery.

[kaypsmith]

Rich, it is a msw inverter/converter, 3 stage, was replaced less than 4 months ago with a brand new one. Old one experienced a surge caused by an open neutral.

[dickandlois]

1 hour ago, kaypsmith said:

Rich, it is a msw inverter/converter, 3 stage, was replaced less than 4 months ago with a brand new one. Old one experienced a surge caused by an open neutral.

      That Makes things interesting ! Hope he has the original installation paperwork and the other kicker, they can be sticklers about who installed the new unit; when it comes to warranty work.

Think one should run the sensor test just the same. There are reasons for extended warranty's.

Close only counts in horse shoes and Hand grenades ! 

Shipping them around is not cheep and getting a return authorization requires an inspection by a certified tech - if I remember properly.

Rich.  

[wolfe10]

The answer to the "high voltage" COULD be as simple as insufficient time has transpired for the inverter/charger to go into FLOAT MODE. Said another way, the inverter/charger may still be (correctly) in bulk or absorption mode.

Answer to one question will rule that in/out:  What is voltage at the battery 24 hours after plugging in (uninterrupted shore power)?

[bburns8]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:46 AM, wolfe10 said:

The answer to the "high voltage" COULD be as simple as insufficient time has transpired for the inverter/charger to go into FLOAT MODE. Said another way, the inverter/charger may still be (correctly) in bulk or absorption mode.

Answer to one question will rule that in/out:  What is voltage at the battery 24 hours after plugging in (uninterrupted shore power)?

Plugged in for 36 hours (uninterrupted shore power).  The voltage is reading 13.97 house batteries and 13.98 chassis batteries.

[richard5933]

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction. I'd suggest you keep monitoring and see how long it takes for the voltage to drop to 13.2 (or there about).

[wolfe10]

If you are in Ft Worth as your  signature says, temperatures are in the 70's.  So, 13.9 is too high for FLOAT MODE.

If you have a remote temperature probe, go to the inverter charger and unplug it (telephone type connection-- no tools needed).

Then program the inverter charger to hot ambient temperature and see what you get after 24 hours.

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

If you are in Ft Worth as your  signature says, temperatures are in the 70's.  So, 13.9 is too high for FLOAT MODE.

If you have a remote temperature probe, go to the inverter charger and unplug it (telephone type connection-- no tools needed).

Then program the inverter charger to hot ambient temperature and see what you get after 24 hours.

We are in Knoxville, TN still.  The temp today is 59 and raining.

Is 13.9 too high for FLOAT MODE with the outside temperature at 59?

Edited December 1, 2018 by bburns8
added question

[manholt]

Still a tad high, I'm  in Texarkana at 66 degrees, sun & float at 13.2.

[wolfe10]

Agreed.  Again, try unplugging the temperature sensor (if you have one) and reprogramming for HOT ambient temperature.

[bburns8]

48 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

Agreed.  Again, try unplugging the temperature sensor (if you have one) and reprogramming for HOT ambient temperature.

There is a gray cord plugged into the TSC (temperature sensitive charging).  Looked in the manual to reprogram for HOT ambient temperature and didn't find any info.

How do you reprogram for HOT ambient temp?

Inverter/charger pic attached.

[wolfe10]

I do not see the telephone-type cable for a REMOTE.  If you don't have a remote panel inside, you will need to pull out the Xantrex manual and look up programming/setting dip switches. You can also find it on-line on Xantrex's website.

 

Ambient temperature is part of the initial setup along with battery bank size (in amp-hours) and battery technology (wet cell, gel or AGM).