Older Class A- safety of original lap belts vs integrated seat belts

[JAMIEBURKS]

Hello- We recently purchased our first Class A after owning several travel trailers- a 1990 Hawkins Motor Coach WBP 358Q. We found a very reputable guy who does extensive RV renovations. It seems that the captain's chairs (driver and passenger) will need to be replaced. The original chairs came with a lap belt only as was standard at the time it was built. We are debating whether to use these lap belts with the new chairs vs purchasing chairs with integrated 3-point belts. Does anyone have expert knowledge or experience with this question? We're concerned about this from a safety perspective as we are aware that the chairs with integrated belts are more expensive.
Thank you!

[manholt]

Jamie414.  Welcome to the Forum and congrats on your, "new to you" coach!

Lap belts had a nasty habit of killing you in a accident.  Not saying that 3 point won't, but it does add a cushion of safety, by spreading out the force!  If your concerned about your SAFETY, then don't be concerned about the COST...your call. 

Gillie  chassis, great ride.  Happy Trails!  

[kaypsmith]

If replacing the old chairs with new chairs anyway, I would spring for the comfort of knowing that I was now under the three point system. I personally can not find a reason to use the older two point style since you are upgrading anyway. Also there are some less expensive ways to accomplish the newer technology, such as looking into RV salvage yards for newer style chairs, or check on ebay under RV captain chairs, and RV restraint systems also.

[wolfe10]

I agree with kaypsmith.

Check RV salvage yards for late model chairs with the three point belts you would prefer.

Let us know where you are and we may be able to direct you to a yard nearby.

 

[ianbullock]

Seems to me that there's no debate here.  All a matter of what you think your personal safety is worth.

if lap belts were just as safe as the current shoulder/lap belt combination then we'd all have nothing more than lap belts in every car and MH still.

if it were me, I would definitely go safety first over cost here. 

 

[JAMIEBURKS]

Thank you to all who replied! Just to be clear, my comment about the cost was only to say that I've already priced these out, am aware of the price difference and it's not an issue, whereas safety is THE issue. The reason I asked the original question is that while it's pretty obvious that the 3-point restraint is superior to lap belts, I wonder if there is anything about the retrofitting aspect that could impact its effectiveness and/or safety. The floor of the Hawkins apparently has an extremely thick steel plate to which the seat base will be bolted, but I am still picturing the entire seat becoming a projectile. Of course in such a scenario it probably won't matter what kind of belt we're wearing...

[hermanmullins]

Jamie,

Again Welcome to the Forum. If it is a choice between lap or lap/shoulder, remember there is just one "Click It" in both and you need all the protection you can get. IMHO, go with the Lap/Shoulder set up.

Happy and SAFE travels.

Herman

[rsbilledwards]

Here is what I have found when I tried to do this. NOT ONE supplier would sell me a pair of seats!!! Why, "your coach did not come with integrated shoulder belts". This means no matter what you do, the coach was not tested and certified to support the installation of these kind of seats with integrated shoulder belts. For them it is a liability and in this litigious country who can blame them. I just had a friend go through this. His out was buying the seats out of the state he was in, a long drive and paying cash and no receipt. Another way around this is to order for a coach that has this kind of seat, have the VIN  the year and maybe even some pictures.

Yes you will have to add some structure under the seat area and tie it to the chassis. Please keep us up to date share what you find as I want different seats too!

Good luck

Bill

[manholt]

Jamie.

As you said, if the seat rips loose, it don't matter.  Is that the reason I only get a lap belt when I fly?  🤣

[manholt]

Bill E.  I have never heard of that?

[kaypsmith]

6 hours ago, Jamie414 said:

 I wonder if there is anything about the retrofitting aspect that could impact its effectiveness and/or safety. The floor of the Hawkins apparently has an extremely thick steel plate to which the seat base will be bolted, but I am still picturing the entire seat becoming a projectile. Of course in such a scenario it probably won't matter what kind of belt we're wearing...

If the new seats are properly attached to that steel plate, that is with bolts all the way through the steel plate then using lock nuts with the proper size washers, I doubt that the seat will become a projectile unless the crash is non survivable anyway. The worst scene that I have witnessed to date was a class A that was approaching an intersection on back beach road, Panama city beach Florida, a dually pickup ran the red light and crashed into the door on the right side front as many are mounted. The pickup took the entire front clip off the coach, including the door. The passenger, a lady probably was asleep at the time of the crash, before 5.00 AM, when I witnessed the crash, was left there in her captain chair with a three point belt properly in place, she was unharmed physically, only emotionally shaken. The driver, her husband and I agreed, THANK GOD for that safety belt, and the fact that it was in use at the time.

[rsbilledwards]

Carl,  You have not an early coach nor looking for seats.  Easy for you to confirm. Call any manufacturer of after markets seats and tell them you want to buy a set and when they ask what they are going in, tell them a 1999 Safari Panther and see what they say.  You will just shake you head. I know this happens personal experience and confirmed 6 weeks ago with another fellow in Texas that has a coach a couple years newer. He went the cash route. Would love to here you respond to sales person, you know fly on the wall thing.  B

[richard5933]

Not sure why a company wouldn't sell you a seat with a 3-point harness built in. Whether it's a seat with a 2-point or a seat with a 3-point, they both will bolt to the floor & chassis the same way. The difference between the two is that the seat with the integral 3-point harness has an frame built to withstand the forces being applied forward at the top of the seat back. The seat with the 3-point should have an interior frame that connects all the parts from top to the bottom mounting plate securely, and assuming that the floor and substructure in your motor home is solid and secure all should be good.

There are a number of places that sell aftermarket seats like the Flexsteel. Perhaps a phone call to some place like Brad & Hall in Elkhart would be helpful. They do installs there, so they should certainly be able to give you a definitive answer about this project.

[wolfe10]

rsbilledwards is correct.

I ran into that when ordering new seats for our 1997 Safari.  Irrespective of how much reassurance I gave of the structure and through bolting, NO WAY on 3 point.

Marketing decisions by LAWYER!

[rayin]

Check out RV salvage and surplus yards, by state.

Cowlaw in MO says they are the largest RV salvage yard in the U.S.A.

FWIW, my captains chairs have the 3-point system built into the seats.