GM Bay Door Lock Cover

[richard5933]

I know that this is a bit of a wild goose chase, but with the number of forum members with experience in the various trades over many decades, I was hoping that someone would know what exactly I'm looking for here.

My coach has locks on all four bay doors. GM offered them as an option, and they came with flip up covers. I need to replace a couple of these, but I cannot find them anywhere. These covers are shown in the maintenance manual as an option, but they are not listed in the parts manual. So, no GM part number. Many optional parts never made it into the parts books, apparently.

Since they look like that might have been an off-the-shelf electrical part back in 1974, I'm hoping that someone will know more about them. If nothing else, maybe I can find out what that sized cover would be called, what else it might have been used on, etc.

They look very similar to Bell outlet covers currently in use, but they are a much different size. The plate is approx. 2" x 3". These covers are positioned at the bottom edge of the door handles, so I cannot use the new larger ones.

Thoughts?

[dickandlois]

Richard what is behind the cover?  Cam lock key cylinder? The width dimension is not really readable. Looks very much like an old exterior single outlet box cover.   

Would something like this replace the current style cover?

https://www.ultimatesecuritydevices.com/Metal-Dust-Cover-aka-Weather-Resistant-Cam-Lock-Cover-for-Cam-and-Key-Switch-LocksVertical-MountCover-Opens-to-Up-or-DownStainless-Spring_p_741.html

There are key cylinder systems that hold this cover securely in place.

Rich.

OH! The patent date for the cover was 1965 !

 

[richard5933]

The width is just over 2", and height is approx. 3". Yes - cam locks are located behind the covers.

Thanks for the suggestion on the cam lock cover, but right now I'm trying to keep things original, if possible.

They look very similar to the covers Bell made (and still makes) for residential outlets, except those are larger and designed to fit a standard residential box. My guess is that these were originally designed to cover an outlet on a motor or piece of machinery, not residential outlets.

If only there were still old-school electrical supply houses, with the dusty back shelves filled with old parts. Now they all are company owned and only stock what is current - if something sits on the shelf too long it's sent back to make room for something else.

I think that I'll search out a dusty old-school supply house and see if I can find one on a back shelf. If I knew what this size cover was called it would certainly make searching for it online much easier.

[dickandlois]

Richard, I have a bell cover plate on the single outlet box on the back deck.  It is 2 1/2  by 3 1/2 .

This might be a source  historrichouseparts in the city.

Rich.

[richard5933]

55 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

Richard, I have a bell cover plate on the single outlet box on the back deck.  It is 2 1/2  by 3 1/2 .

This might be a source  historrichouseparts in the city.

Rich.

I'm guessing that the smaller size cover place is no longer in production. What's really strange is that I can't even find a reference to it online, not even a single photo.

[hermanmullins]

Richard are yours able to be rebuilt. Gorilla Glue does wonders. 

Herman

[richard5933]

6 minutes ago, hermanmullins said:

Richard are yours able to be rebuilt. Gorilla Glue does wonders. 

Herman

The metal is starting to fatigue from 45 years of being opened & closed. One tab broke off the other day that holds the lid open, and when I looked close I could see that the point where the lid hinges is not far behind. I want to keep things looking original, but not sure if there are still any of these old style covers out there.

[hermanmullins]

If it is just the lid could you have one made by someone with a 3D laser printer? I don' know much about the printers and don't know how strong the part would be, but it might be worth looking into.

Herman

[manholt]

Any way of tracking down the PAT# ?  That should tell you who & what.

[wildebill308]

I like the 3D printer idea. I believe there are printers that print in metal now. But the lighter weight nylon should work for the cover.

Bill

[rayin]

37 minutes ago, manholt said:

Any way of tracking down the PAT# ?  That should tell you who & what.

I attempted that, however that number must not be complete or I'm not good at tracing patent numbers. I thought I replied _, but that was last year.

[richard5933]

Here's the patent application. They were producing these from the 50s onward as pat. pending, then applied for it in 1961 from the looks of things.

But, the patent seems to be on the general concept of the hinged lid on a metal base. Apparently they were in various layouts with slightly different sized bases using the same patent. I finally found a couple of these on eBay, unfortunately with the larger size base. At least I now know what they called the thing: Bell Electric Saf-T-Lok Snap Cover Plate.

I still have not figured out what that smaller size (2" x 3") cover plate is called or what it was designed for. That would probably be the secret to finding one. In my hunting, I found a switch & box from an old Delta Unisaw. Oddly, the box that switch was mounted in appeared to be the same smaller size as these cover plates. My hunch is still that this was a commonly used size for industrial motors and machinery switches and outlets.

Update:

I ordered one from eBay, even though it has the wrong size base plate. My hope is that the patent application is correct, and that the carrier holding the hinged lid to the base is in fact held on by two rivets. If that's true, then perhaps I can transplant the lid assembly from the replacement onto the smaller base I already have. Since the part that is broken/weakened is the carrier for the lid & hinge, this would fix things if it works. Still would love to find the right one though.

 

US3189212.pdf

[Factor]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:20 PM, richard5933 said:

I know that this is a bit of a wild goose chase, but with the number of forum members with experience in the various trades over many decades, I was hoping that someone would know what exactly I'm looking for here.

My coach has locks on all four bay doors. GM offered them as an option, and they came with flip up covers. I need to replace a couple of these, but I cannot find them anywhere. These covers are shown in the maintenance manual as an option, but they are not listed in the parts manual. So, no GM part number. Many optional parts never made it into the parts books, apparently.

Since they look like that might have been an off-the-shelf electrical part back in 1974, I'm hoping that someone will know more about them. If nothing else, maybe I can find out what that sized cover would be called, what else it might have been used on, etc.

They look very similar to Bell outlet covers currently in use, but they are a much different size. The plate is approx. 2" x 3". These covers are positioned at the bottom edge of the door handles, so I cannot use the new larger ones.

Thoughts?

I looks like the older version of this 

https://www.zoro.com/bell-weatherproof-cover-die-cast-zinc-gray-5155-0/i/G2038662/

[richard5933]

Thanks.

I should have reported back earlier - I did find a few older covers, but like the one you found they all have the larger mounting plate designed for a regular 1-gang switch/outlet.

However, I think that I have a plan. I'm going to surgically remove the cap and hinge assembly from a replacement, and then rivet it back onto the plate from my original. Kind of a cover transplant. I've tried it once on a scrap cover, and I think it will work.

[Factor]

Yeah I was up at my church and found these

[richard5933]

Yeah - those are the ones I was able to find. Covers are the same, plate is larger than the one I am trying to replace.

[manholt]

Can you cut the cover to size you need?  Make your own rubber gasket out of inner tub?

[richard5933]

No way to cut them without losing the tapered edges - all that would be left is a flat piece of thin brass. No way it would like flat against the door, as the edge is what give it strength/stability. Easier to do a transplant than to try and recreate the tapered edge.

[hermanmullins]

Richard, if all else fails could you trim the cover plate like Factor shows and secure it to the old plate. With the two mounting screws and Gorilla Glue and a bit of paint you should be good to go. It should last until you are able to find old/new stock of the old plate.

Herman

[richard5933]

That would work, but it looks like doing the snap cover transplant from the "new" ones I found onto the original mounting plate should work. Only a few steps involved in doing the transplant, and once the weather gives me a few warmer drier days I'll give it a shot.

[manholt]

Well, at least now you have 2 possibility's more than when you posted.

[jleamont]

22 hours ago, richard5933 said:

I'm going to surgically remove the cap and hinge assembly from a replacement,

What are the metals, can you tell? I suspect aluminum or one of the white metal group. 
I was going to say Tig weld the new cover onto the old plate. Risky and could be more permanent than you desire. 

[richard5933]

55 minutes ago, jleamont said:

What are the metals, can you tell? I suspect aluminum or one of the white metal group. 
I was going to say Tig weld the new cover onto the old plate. Risky and could be more permanent than you desire. 

Surprisingly, they are mostly solid brass. The only thing that connects the snap cover & hinge assembly to the plate is two 3/32" rivets. I have a box of aluminum (couldn't locate the correct size in brass) solid rivet the correct size, and my plan is to reassemble the same way as the original. A couple of dabs of silver paint and things should look just the same as the original. The only difficult part of this is going to be rigging up a way to hold things steady enough so that I can smack the rivets hard enough for them to hold tight.

[jleamont]

3 hours ago, richard5933 said:

4 hours ago, jleamont said:

 

Surprisingly, they are mostly solid brass.

Richard, one old saying comes to mind “they don’t build them like the use to”!

Keep them painted or they might become someone’s trophy. 
Rivets sound like the best solution. I have never worked with brass, would anti seize where the rivets rest help with electrolysis? 

[richard5933]

No, they don't. The current version of these are made of plastic. While those will never rust, if they are outside they will still deteriorate. They have different problems, like breakdown from UV and stress cracks from extreme weather and temps. My brass pieces have lasted 45 years, so I'm not sure they really needed any improving. My guess is that the bean counters deemed they needed improvement in the cost to produce though, which is why the are now plastic.

My plan is to rely on the paint to help reduce any electrolysis.