Trace Inverter

[schoonmakerjon]

Hello all,

I'm recent to the RV world and now have a MCI '99-2K coach, well outfitted when it was delivered ~20yrs ago.  The electrical/power system includes a Trace Inverter model - SW4024MC2.   Additionally, the coach has a PowerTech (PT) 20kw generator integrated into the inverter, so the inverter can be programmed to charge the batteries (chassis/engine) when they fall below a set value.   What experience does anyone have with the Trace Inverter menu system and programming the inverter?   I've the unit's operating manual and understand the menu system, and am interested in operational experience.   I would like to avoid creating new problems, so anyone's experience with programming this unit and working through the menu system will be helpful.

Also, following my return trip ~15hrs on the road, after acquiring the coach, the chassis/engine batteries do not seem to hold a charge.  When I attempt to start the coach after it sitting 5-7 days, I need to run the generator ~20mins to get enough battery power to start the engine (D60/12.7L).   So there remains some load/draw on the batteries or they are not able to charge correctly.   I'm understanding these batteries could be 3-5yrs old.   One of my service items is to have a load test applied to the battery "pack" once the local service facilities reopen in ~3weeks.    I appreciate any guidance.   Thank you.

   Regards,   Jon

[hermanmullins]

Jon, are you sure that your Inverter can be programed to auto start the Gen.?

Also to having a shop load test your Batteries might I suggest that you go to Harbor Freight and purchase your own load tester they are very relative  inexpensive. Then you can do your own test anytime you need to.

Herman

[schoonmakerjon]

Herman,

Yes, quite sure the Trace can be programmed to start the generator and 3-phase charge the batteries.   I've the manual and in reading the menu commands/system, the procedure is fairly well identified.  Again, my opportunity here is attempting to do it correctly, the 1st time, and not mess something up.   I'm still relatively new with much of these systems, and it is a bit "drinking from the fire hose" program, reading through numerous manuals.  And in this situation, there is value to documenting the current configuration, so it can be easily "rolled-back" if needed.   I'll do this to get started, and write out the new procedure prior to "programming the Trace".   I've spoken to the Tech Support crew and they have agreed to review the new procedure to avoid errors.   Again, I'm hopeful there are some folk reading the forum that has done some Trace Inverter configuring previously.

Your recommendation to get to Harbor Freight and purchase a load tester is quite helpful.   I'll do this, as there is a HF here in my area, Springfield, MA.    Thank you

[dickandlois]

1 hour ago, schoonmakerjon said:

Herman,

Yes, quite sure the Trace can be programmed to start the generator and 3-phase charge the batteries.   I've the manual and in reading the menu commands/system, the procedure is fairly well identified.  Again, my opportunity here is attempting to do it correctly, the 1st time, and not mess something up.   I'm still relatively new with much of these systems, and it is a bit "drinking from the fire hose" program, reading through numerous manuals.  And in this situation, there is value to documenting the current configuration, so it can be easily "rolled-back" if needed.   I'll do this to get started, and write out the new procedure prior to "programming the Trace".   I've spoken to the Tech Support crew and they have agreed to review the new procedure to avoid errors.   Again, I'm hopeful there are some folk reading the forum that has done some Trace Inverter configuring previously.

Your recommendation to get to Harbor Freight and purchase a load tester is quite helpful.   I'll do this, as there is a HF here in my area, Springfield, MA.    Thank you

I Will. attach a manual that has the older remote system  See if this is what you want. Well not sure things are attaching? I do have a file covering the Auto Gen start remote for the Trace systems. I will continue to look for options to get you a copy if you think that would help.

Rich.

Could you post the manual number you have?  Instillation manual or operators manual?

[kaypsmith]

I also have a MCI coach, I always use the battery disconnect when the coach is parked for more than 2 hours. These beasts are unlike other motorhomes, with a 24 volt chassis instead of a 12 volt as most factory built MH's are. There is an equalizer on board that is there to insure that both 12 volt batteries stay in sync, "equally charged" if one is lower that the other, the system robs current from the higher one to bring up the other one, causing there always to be a drain on both batteries. Since I know to disconnect the 24 volt system, I can leave both unattended up to 6 months, reconnect and the coach always cranks unless one of the batteries have gone bad. By the way, if you decide to add a battery maintainer instead of disconnection, you will need to add two maintainers, one for each battery, otherwise the equalization process will overwork using even more current, remember these are two 12 volt batteries in series, and a 24 volt battery maintainer is very expensive and very hard to find. In all likelihood the trace inverter is a 12 volt only system and only intended for the house charging system. By the way on my MCI everything to do with the chassis except the ECM and the headlights are 24 volt unless they have been converted, and most conversions for other lighting is LED and we always use 10/30 volt LED's meaning no resistors to burn out. Many of the Prevost's coaches use stacked running lights, two 12 volt in series stacked one on top of the other.

[rayin]

When buying/using a load tester, it should have the capacity to measure 1/2 the battery CCA. https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/battery-capacity-tests.html

I first bought a digital load tester from HF, it died 6 months later. I then bought an analog load tester from HF, this one is 5 years old and operating as designed.

[schoonmakerjon]

Hello all responding to my question,

I'll address the above in order of your all responses,

**** and Lois, I'm working with a Trace Engineering SW Series Inverter/Charger with Rev. 4.01 and software.   I've queried the Trace menu and can confirm the 4.01 software version is verified.  In the lower left of the Owner's manual is this added information, Part No. 2031-5. Rev. B - Sept 1, 1999.   Also, I've spoken to the current Trace tech support group and the contact has provided helpful information and agreed to review an updated configuration, once I've written this up.   Probably this week.

Kay, I appreciate your added experience/insight with the MCI unit.   I've been shutting down the main power while the coach is currently stored outside.   So my current procedure to start the coach is to run the generator for ~20mins, then the chassis/engine batteries are charged enough to start the D60.   Unfortunately running the engine for ~20-30mins is not providing enough charge for the batteries to hold the charge level even for a week+.   The prior owner kept the coach indoors with a 220v shoreline to keep the batteries charged.   I'm not able to do this, in the current situation.   Since you indicate disconnecting the 24volt system, are you actually disconnecting the wires from the batteries or simply shutting down the circuit breakers?  This will be helpful to understand, since the prior owner installed 2 master breakers, a 12/24v and 110v and I can shut these both off.   I've not done this yet, since I've had other items to chase up, and will get to this probably tomorrow.

RayIN,   I'll check the product reviews for both digital and analog units to verify I'm purchasing a quality tester.   and I had intended to go to harbor freight.    

I appreciate everyone's help, guidance and insight here.   I'm making progress "climbing" the learning curve and looking forward to getting back on the road, after my return trip from picking up the coach.   Thank you.   ---  Jon

[kaypsmith]

My MCI has a main disconnect switch (handle) on other side of wall from the batteries, this is the main disconnect switch for 24 volt chassis system. Now just above the batteries, there is a large black box, this is the equalizer, there is a 12 volt wire that connects to the first battery only, this wire is used to provide 12 volts to the headlamps and the ECM. I added a disconnect switch to that 12 volt wire, this will stop the equalizer from robbing from one battery to keep the other one equalized, this is what I had to do to stop the parasitic drain on my coach. Notice the picture below, just above the batteries the box that I spoke about, at first I would unscrew the attached wires, one is marked 12V the other 12V, when using the method the wire on the far left is a ground wire, that has to be removed first, this allows the other two to be removed without a spark. you will notice that I rerouted the attached wires to a heavy duty three wire range plug, I now simply unplug the plug from the recep to avoid  the need to unscrew the nuts that hold the wires in place. just to the right of the shield in my coach is the factory installed disconnect, or handle that I spoke of earlier. These coaches were designed to stay on the road daily and were not equipped with a disconnect feature, this is why I added one. Using this method, I can let the coach sit for six months, then reconnect and the batteries never needs recharging for the coach to fire right up.

[manholt]

Kay, why the Alligator clamp?

[kaypsmith]

Carl, that is a set of jumper cables that is always there to charge the house 12 volt house system when and if the generator is not running, like on a cool night or even in wintertime travel.

[schoonmakerjon]

Kay,   I appreciate the added insight and your description of the modified disconnect system implemented.  My MCI coach has a master power switch, and I now shut this down/off, when I leave the coach for any time period.   I'm still finding the chassis/engine batteries will not start the engine when I'm back at the coach, ~3-7 days later.   I'll load test these batteries in the next week or so, once my load tester arrives.

The current approach, suggested by the prior owner, to get the coach running, is to run the on-board generator for ~15mins, providing enough charge to the chassis/engine batteries.   During this process, the inverter is operating as a battery charger.   This process works fine, and I can start the generator directly, or use the Trace to start it (This process is described in the Trace manual, and I'll confirm this once at the coach.)  So I've no problems getting the engine running, and charging the batteries from the alternator.   It is just sorting out what might be draining the batteries, and this should be nothing, given the master power is off, or if the batteries, due to age/maintenance, are not able to hold a charge and need to be replaced.   These are leadacid/gel batteries, from my understanding.  Again, I believe the load test will verify the batteries are not holding the expected charge.   Interestingly, I had no issues when driving the coach from OH to MA, evening shutting down the coach while parked in a rest area overnight, and leaving the parking light on.   This chassis/engine battery situation presented once in MA with colder weather and the coach being outside.   The prior owner kept the coach garaged with a 220V plugged in, as he was regularly transporting celebrity folks as a business, until a few years ago.

I've spoken to the prior owner, and these chassis/engine batteries may be 5+yrs old, although I'm only able to identify the maintenance record for replacing the house batteries, ~3yrs ago.   So again, I've believe this is an age/maintenance item.  Your added insight is greatly appreciated.   Thank you.

 

[kaypsmith]

Maybe the batteries are just aged out, and hopefully this is the case, but as I described the equalizer is operating within the two batteries even though the master shut off switch is disengaged, one battery just being a little lower, which can be caused by a weak cell. So load testing the batteries is a good thing to do. But if that checks out ok, or even if you replace the batteries and the parasitic drain keeps occurring, then I suggest that an equalizer switch cutoff will be in order. To test to see if the equalizer is the culprit, you can simply disconnect all three wires, making sure that you have labeled them, and if you do this, be sure to disconnect the ground first, then the other two in any order. I have several friends with these type coaches, MCI, Prevost, Gillig. and the old Silver Eagles, all of us do the  equalizer disconnect when we are not plugged into shore power for more than a day or so. Yes the inverter will charge the chassis batteries, but remember the inverter is only 12 volt and will only charge one of the two batteries because of the way it is wired into the first battery, then the equalizer has to do it's work of bringing the second battery to the same charge level, thereby overworking the equalizer just trying to keep up, which will shorten the life of the equalizer, and those babies are not cheap to replace. Hope you enjoy your coach as much as we have ours. P.S. if you can always plug into shore power and not leave the coach for extended stays, the disconnect of the equalizer is not important, but there will be times that this cannot be done. I don't know which chassis batteries yours uses, I have two 8D's1400 CCA's, and they are not cheap to replace, so I baby them, and have gotten 8 plus years out of them in the past.

[schoonmakerjon]

Kay,  good afternoon.   Your above assessment is quite valuable, and knowing that the prior owner had this coach plugged into a shore power line at all times, when sitting, seems to indicate you are on-track here with your assessment.   I will begin this assessment process, as soon as my load tester arrives and sort this out.   Again, this is quite helpful and provides pointers to get this resolved.

And I'll let you know the disposition/results.     Thank you.

[schoonmakerjon]

All participating in the topic,

I believe the battery issue has been resolved.   One of the 8D batteries was found to be deficient through an individual load test.   Per Herman's recommendation, I acquired a simple load tester, and after working with a battery dealer and the prior owner, disconnected the 2 batteries and tested each.  One passed and the other failed.   So a few days ago, I replaced both with new 8Ds.   All good, as prior issues have been eliminated.   As my current use is limited, I'm shutting down the master electrical switch when the coach is stored.    

I'm planning on a short trip after Memorial Day, with the plan to test/verify most systems and be fairly close to home, if any significant problems occur.   Overall this was a great learning experience, and I'm also now much more knowledgeable about the Trace Inverter.   Thank you for everyone's help and advise.

           Regards,   Jon