ultraglide Report post Posted January 24, 2015 We'll talk about bad luck. My 2014 Journey is down again and again because of the DEF. First time 2800 miles crushed hose and bad filter. Second time 3900 miles bad DEF from a Pilot by Lazydays new filter, pump and draining lines (not paid for under warranty). Now again a bad sensor but not sure, well at least that is what the code says. With only 5875 miles. Stuck in Las Cruces NM. And having trouble getting into a Cummins shop or a Frieghtliner shop. I really thinks this DEF system is a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 24, 2015 Could you post the make, model and year of you engine. Could you also post how much DEF you have used. I understand that changing out all the DEF because of some bad DEF kind of troughs thing off. and a crushed supply line is not a nominal problem. 2% DEF per fuel usage @ 6 to 8 MPG should put you in the ballpark regarding the amount of DEF you would need. This is a link to a calculator for DEF consumption, https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/fuel/diesel_emission/def_calculator.html Have no clue to your driving habits, but the DEF systems like to run hot. So slow stop and go traffic can cause issues with the system. School buses drivers in our area need to remember to run in the lower gears to maintain a higher temperature in the exhaust when stopping frequently. Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 24, 2015 Ultraglide. Good Morning. El Paso and Albuquerque, have Cummins and bigger than Las Cruces. As for DEF, I also don't like it! Rich is right. Good Luck Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 24, 2015 I am trying to find out the year of the engine. It is a 400hp on a Freightliner. When I first bought the unit I was told to fill up every time that I put in fuel. I have since been only doing it when the DEF tank gets about 1/2. My toad says not to go over 65 ,so I find my sweet spot to be around 61 to 62 at 1600 rpm. I have let it idle but I raise the idea to 1000 rpm which helps with bring in the slide outs. This last time I was going through El Paso at 60 mph and when I was on the other side kick it up to 62. 65 miles later and before the campground the light came on. Now I have to drive back to El Paso with the hopes that it won't quit on me. Remember 5875 miles is not a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarveyWhite Report post Posted January 25, 2015 Hate to hear of your trouble. had the DEF problem with my new coach also, Freightliner was no help but the Cummins dealer here in Odessa was a big help, the sensor was the problem at first then the pump that injects the fluid was weak it wouldn't work unless the tank was full. After that all has been good. I feel I could also have more peace of mind without the def on mine. Hope all works out for you.Harvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 25, 2015 ultraglide, this is a link to a pdf file covering your engine. http://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/4971107.pdf Cummins should cover any towing required for the first year you own the coach. The information is in the document. Check this link, is this the check engine information that is being displayed? http://www.mid-pac.com/documents/DPF_EN.pdf Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 25, 2015 There is a lot off disinformation out there! When I had my Allegro Bus 2011, I had what turned out to be a bad sensor, about half way between Odessa and Amarillo. I called Cummins in Amarillo and asked, "is it OK for me to drive the coach in? Or do I need a tow?" They told me to drive on in and no it would not damage my engine or exhaust system, nor would it do anything to my warranty! Prior to that, I was told that my engine would shut down and it would require a Cummins Tech to come and start the engine! Lots of $$$$ A friend had to replace the DEF tank (it got damaged in Alaska), he drove over 800 miles for a replacement, with no DEF! Also, no damage. So much hype from Govt agency's, Dealers and experts! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 27, 2015 New update: 8 hours of tech working on the DEF system . No faults in the system at the shop. 50 miles from Cummins of El Paso the dash light come on with the same code as before. Have to go back tomorrow at 7am . This should be interesting, and we have to pay for more nights. Will up date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 27, 2015 ultraglide, Could you post the code(s) you are reading for the group? Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Codes this time DSBGN 7693 doses injector fail. Freightliner code is spn 4364 fmi 18 SA. Other codes were 3574,1682,3714,3712,1682. Replaced doser pump twice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
campcop Report post Posted January 27, 2015 After reading other posts about these computer systems, I would not be surprised if they eventually find a bad connection etc somewhere.... Where are you staying in LC? At this point I think I would be in El Paso, not too far from Cummins.... and if you are at that end of town, you might want to take a ride out to Fabens for a steak.....best for hundreds of miles.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 28, 2015 At the present time I am sitting in the Cummins parking lot till tomorrow,then maybe Anthony NM. Update on unit Cummins is cleaning out the whole DEF system,and replacing the SCR Catalyst. That the only thing that have not been replaced, that's the good news. Bad news is that no one has the catalyst and it may take 2 weeks to 49 days . I do believe it's bull but what can I do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 28, 2015 Codes this time DSBGN 7693 doses injector fail. Freightliner code is spn 4364 fmi 18 SA. Other codes were 3574,1682,3714,3712,1682. Replaced doser pump twice. This is the information I found regarding your fault codes. All are related to the DEF system. Hope it proves useful. Fault code information. FCCC plus other make chassis Code-1682--- DEF Dosing unit Priming Issues Code-3712--- Extended SCR issue, needs immediate attention Code-3714--- Torque De-rate, Critical Fault Code. Code-3574--- http://www.allworldauto.com/tsbs/NHTSA_9999_CUMMINS_CUMMINS_technical_service_bulletin_334991.html Code-4364--- Catalyst Reduction NOx conversion low. There are two different sub codes with different sub information. FMI-1 and FMI-18 Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted January 28, 2015 Good grief! Who is paying for camping? 2 weeks OK, but 49 days? I would be Cummins Headquarters worst nightmare!!! Wish you a speedy recovery! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Update. El Paso Cummins finished cleaning the lines and the tank with distilled water. They put everything back in. Still waiting for word on the catalyst. Not one to be had in the 8 state Rocky Mountain region. They told me to go on my trip and to come back when I am done. They said that now that it is really clean I should not have a problem. Now I have paid twice for the same thing. $1727 to Orlando Cummins to clean with a hose and tap water and now $1285 to El Paso to clean it correctly with distilled water. El Paso wanted Orlando to help pay for some of the cleaning. Orlando won't call El Paso back. Will have to take it up higher. Bad DEF came from Pilot in Seffner Fl. Pilot not talking either. Still working on it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrwitt Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Does DEF that you buy in containers at places like Walmart have an expiration date? Or is there any other way to tell if it is still good? What about DEF you purchase at fuel locations that you pump at a self serve pump. Is there anyway to tell if it is ok? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desertdeals69 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 I don't think I would ever want an engine that requires DEF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted January 29, 2015 jrwitt if the DEF is clear its OK . There is no way to tell at the pump unless you spill some or pour it in a cup. If it looks like milk it is bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huffypuff Report post Posted January 30, 2015 DEF sounds like a wonderful thing to put in a coach that sits long time between uses. Good reason for me to keep my old coach with no EGR or DEF and exhaust filter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted January 30, 2015 ultraglide, Thanks for posting the information on how one knows what to look for and your issue is a good reason to make sure what a person is pumping is good. Our coach is an old one and I keep feeling better as time passes about just keeping the old girl !!!! Think if it was a new one and used DEF, I would always carry some, just to keep away from the pumps at the diesel islands. With you coach being so new, I hope that there is some help regarding the fees to get things fixed !! Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
campcop Report post Posted February 1, 2015 Update. El Paso Cummins finished cleaning the lines and the tank with distilled water. They put everything back in. Still waiting for word on the catalyst. Not one to be had in the 8 state Rocky Mountain region. They told me to go on my trip and to come back when I am done. They said that now that it is really clean I should not have a problem. Now I have paid twice for the same thing. $1727 to Orlando Cummins to clean with a hose and tap water and now $1285 to El Paso to clean it correctly with distilled water. El Paso wanted Orlando to help pay for some of the cleaning. Orlando won't call El Paso back. Will have to take it up higher. Bad DEF came from Pilot in Seffner Fl. Pilot not talking either. Still working on it all. I had a problem with a fuel filter and Cummins Corp was very helpful got a call a few days after I mailed a letter...the letter went to corp headquarters ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
campcop Report post Posted February 1, 2015 jrwitt if the DEF is clear its OK . There is no way to tell at the pump unless you spill some or pour it in a cup. If it looks like milk it is bad. Almost sounds like the DEF was contaminated with water... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
britcon Report post Posted February 2, 2015 campcop, on 01 Feb 2015 - 3:17 PM, said:Almost sounds like the DEF was contaminated with water... DEF is 2/3 deionized water / 1/3 urea. Ultraglide............I feel for you! We have same Cummins 400ISL in our Newmar Ventana. 15,000 miles with no issues. I have been using the BlueDef product ( 2 1/2 gal. boxes ) from either Amazon or Walmart. Its definitely more expensive than getting it at the Truck Stop, but a lot more convenient. I usually carry a couple of boxes with me. Bonus is you can see immediately if container has been tampered with, or if DEF looks funny. There are so many sensors on all the systems now, that electrical glitches are the norm. I've had mine into Freightliner twice now - lost all the gauges completely one day / back the next, and had " Check Transmission " warning light that disappeared after restart at Rest Stop. Shop could see codes but could not identify issues, and they have not reoccurred to date. I recently had MH serviced at Orlando Freightliner ( bad experience ! ) and was thinking I should have gone to Orlando Cummins. After reading your post - maybe not !! Best of luck to you ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obofsooke Report post Posted February 3, 2015 I hope that you (Ultraglide) have your problem solved. I feel for you in your problem. I once ran out of DEF and the Winnie Tour was restricted to a speed of 15 MPH until I was able to add more DEF. I rarely fill at the pumps and usually buy my DEF in the 2 1/2 gal containers and bring an extra 5 gals with us in the "basement". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultraglide Report post Posted February 3, 2015 I starting to think that, that is what I should do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
