No Shore Power

[johntelling]

No power from shore line:

 

My Fleetwood Excursion has an Intellitec 00-00803-300 switch, and a Xantrex 458 Inverter/Charger.

 

There is an Intellitec Load Meter EMS which displays the incoming power.

 

When the generator is running, everything works normally. When the generator is off, and I am plugged in to a 30 amp (or 15 amp) shore line, the EMS does not display anything. The TV and other small appliances work, but the air won’t run – it does with the generator running.

 

I checked the Intellitec switch, and it seems to be working normally, in that power is going to the main breaker. This is the case either from shore power or running the generator.

 

The voltage coming out of the switch is about the same with shore power and the generator.

 

The problem just started after I left the coach unplugged for a few days, then plugged it back in to the same 30 amp outlet.

 

What am I missing?

 

JT

[jbell]

Turn your inverter off and see if your tv works. if the tv does not work you most likely have a bad relay in your transfer switch .

Thats my 2 cents worth!

[desertdeals69]

What year is your coach?

[dickandlois]

John,   Did you turn off the Salesman switch next to the entryway?

A 458 inverter / charger has 2-120 volt output circuits. that power the entertainment system and circuits in the kitchen and bathroom.   turning off the inverter will power down those items.

Check all the 120 volt circuit brakes mainly the main breakers in the AC power panels.

Rich. 

[elkhartjim]

I had the exact issue a few months ago in reverse and in my case it was a bad relay in the transfer switch. Everything worked fine on shore power but would not work when using the genset..

[johntelling]

Thanks for all the replies, but still confused: no breakers off, no switches off, inverter producing 120 VAC, 

The coach is a 2005 Fleetwood Excursion.

If the switch is at fault, don't understand why I am getting 123 VAC from the switch, either with the generator ON with no shore power connected, or the generator OFF with shore power connected.

The current flows out of the switch to the main breaker, then to a 20 amp breaker prior to going to the inverter. 

When I turn on the generator, the two relays in the switch both close. When I turn the generator off, they both open. Why I add shore power nothing happens. Should they stay open with shore power, and should both relays be doing the same thing?

Thanks again for all the suggestions - I am quite baffled, and afraid that a repair guy will happily replace the switch and not fix the problem. My issue is finding someone local who can look at with within the next 3 weeks.

JT

[dickandlois]

John, the fact that everything works when the generator is running and you have only the 2 - 120 volt circuits when on Shore power. Points to a failed relay or switching circuit that should switch between shore and generator power. 

Did you power up the generator with a heavy load on the 120 volt supply - Like having the AC units turned on. This kind of load can weld relay contacts together, that would prevent the relay from switching back to shore power../ The prim suspect in this case is the Automatic Transfer Relay. 

When connected to shore Power do you get a current reading on the EMS panel? Did you get a Current reading when on gen power? Should have because everything worked.

The Manual I have indicates the problem is in the change over relay if one source of 120 volts is missing. 

With all line power disconnected measure the resistance across the transfer relay- ) ohms ? Then measure the resistance reading from the Shore power plug and the terminals of the ATS. That test confirms the continuity of the cable and the connections between the plug and the repay. 50 amp shore power, check both L-1 and L-2  If that checks and you are using a 30 A to 50 A adapter, there is a good chance the Adapter is defective.  

Rich.

[dickandlois]

John, Do you have the manual for the EMS in your coach?

There is a 3 amp fuse located on the board, if the fuse fails then you will loose power. Need 12 volts to activate relays 1 an 2 on the circuit board.

Rich.

[johntelling]

Rich, thanks for the info. I am getting 123 VAC out of the switch either from the gen or shore line. I talked to Intellitec, they told me that if I am getting poser out of the switch in both conditions, it must be the EMS. The puzzler is that the display (and everything else) works with the gen, but not with shore power. Intellitec say the EMS can tell the difference between 110 from the gen and 110 from the shore line.

I don't have the EMS manual, but I will check the 3 amp fuse on the board.

JT

[dickandlois]

John. If you can post the model of your EMS. think it will be a model 750 or 800. What is the size of your Shore power ? 30 or 50 amp?

They are wired differently for 50 and 30 amp shore power>

Rich.

[johntelling]

Rich,It is a Model 900 50 amp system, although I seldom find a 50 amp supply when I camp.

JT

[dickandlois]

4 hours ago, johntelling said:

Rich,It is a Model 900 50 amp system, although I seldom find a 50 amp supply when I camp.

JT

Thanks John ! Will see if I can find a PDF link for your EMS system and pass it along. Did not expect the 900 system in your coach !

Rich.

This might help ! http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/michaelreush/2012-04-28_033135_intelletic_ems_service_manual.pdf

Still has the fuse, thought I would just attach a link that pictures it on one of the interchangeable boards Think the original boards had a 3 amp fuse. But this one has a 5 amp fuse Fuse is pictured in the 3rd. picture from the left.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intellitec-50-Amp-smart-EMS-energy-management-system-upgrade-kit-model-760-NEW-/310795813757

Interesting ! Looked around some more and this board does have a 3 amp fuse. So one might think that the circuit might be pron to blowing the fuse at times. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTELLITEC-50-AMP-MODEL-960-SMART-EMS-BOARD-00-00767-200-/162065465765?hash=item25bbdac1a5

 

 

[johntelling]

Rich,

I finally found someone to look at my coach, and he just called and told me that it 'lost' the neutral. Not sure how or where -but thanks for all your tips and suggestions.

I know a lot more about the switch and the EMS system than I did before, but still just enough to be dangerous, as my dad used to say!

JT

[tbutler]

I love to read a post where the OP returns to let us know what the solution was!  Thanks John.

[jleamont]

I just experienced a problem with our coach. While on shore power when the AC unit would turn on the lights would blink and power would be halted to the coach from my surge protector. I started the generator, worked fine...hmm ATS malfunction? So I turn on some loads inside while on shore power, I look at my surge protector, I am only pulling power from L2 (18 amps) L1 00 amps...hmmm. I pull the plug and it's cracked in a few spots. I replace the plug reconnect to my surge protector and everything works. 

Just wanted to share that story.

[manholt]

Thanks Joe.  Next time, it'll be batteries...remember me!   I had  the  same info.

Carl

[jleamont]

5 minutes ago, Manholt said:

Thanks Joe.  Next time, it'll be batteries...remember me!   I had  the  same info.

Carl

Yea, I was thinking the same as it was unfolding 

you never know what you will find while working on these things.

[five]

You guys are forgetting that these coaches are in one of three conditions...not in any particular order:

-  It's broken.

-  You just fixed it.

-  It's getting ready to break again.

[jleamont]

57 minutes ago, FIVE said:

You guys are forgetting that these coaches are in one of three conditions...not in any particular order:

-  It's broken.

-  You just fixed it.

-  It's getting ready to break again.

[kaypsmith]

Good thing is, if lost neutral that something was doing else was doing it's job, or you have only plugged into  30 amp circuits. If you had plugged into a 50 amp and the ATS activated, then you would have sent 240 volts to all activated circuits, probably frying most of them.

[jleamont]

I guess I got lucky