wildebill308 Report post Posted August 12, 2016 This happened the day after I was on this same road. There are a lot of rocks that looked "loose" and I wouldn't want to park under one. http://fox13now.com/2016/08/10/zion-mount-carmel-highway-closed-after-huge-rock-falls-on-road/ Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Mr. Bill, What do loose rocks look like when they are that size???? BillE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted August 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, rsbilledwards said: Mr. Bill, What do loose rocks look like when they are that size???? BillE Bill, they look scarey. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 12, 2016 WOW.. That's a new meaning, to the sign "Falling Rocks"! They're going to study how to remove the rocks? Hello, you got the dozer there, push it off the road ! Or will that kill off the "protected", boulder flea? Geez! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Carl, Probably too big. It will leave a rut in the road bed! They will take a couple days to decide to blow it up and no rut in the roadway. They always make more out of it than necessary. BillE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Rut? Did you not see what the road now looks like? Another rut, is the least of their problems! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted August 12, 2016 If you look at the picture carefully you can see it has knocked a chunk of the road surface loose and pushed it out of place. I don't think they are going to move it with that small piece of equipment. Follow the link in the story to see water running down the main drag going into the park. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 12, 2016 WBill, I did earlier, impressive and scary, if your in a CRV or Jeep! I would think, they would move in a big crane and track dozer or two...I don't think they would blow it up! Way, to risky...don't need another slide, I was looking at the rocks behind the dozer. Mostly sand stone. Very unstable! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted August 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Manholt said: WBill, I did earlier, impressive and scary, if your in a CRV or Jeep! I would think, they would move in a big crane and track dozer or two...I don't think they would blow it up! Way, to risky...don't need another slide, I was looking at the rocks behind the dozer. Mostly sand stone. Very unstable! I saw them blow a boulder in Colorado one time. They cover it with what they called blast blankets after the charges were placed. When the popped it and pulled the blankets off just a pile of rubble that could be easily moved. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Would like to see that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbutler Report post Posted August 12, 2016 I'm guessing that little bitty end loader wouldn't budge those rocks. There may also be problems with what is downhill from the roadway. In areas like this is isn't uncommon to have switchbacks below the road that is shown. I know there is one area in Zion National Park where this is the case. We were in Mesa Verde National Park last week. There are several areas that are identified as being rockfall danger areas and no stopping is permitted! One of the cliff dwellings was closed for touring because there is a section of rock that is about to fall. They are trying to resolve that without destroying the pueblos below. Anytime you have steep slopes this kind of thing can happen. Actually this is really minor compared to what has happened in other areas. There are several slides I have visited where entire mountainsides have dropped into the valley. If you have a chance to visit one of these, they are quite amazing to see and contemplate what happened. North of Jackson Hole, WY is the Gros Ventre Slide. The link has part of the story, Wikipedia has more information. This occurred in 1925. The scar is still clearly visible and the lake that was formed when the river below was dammed is still there. In 1959 a 7.5 earthquake northwest of Yellowstone National Park collapsed a mountainside into the valley of the Madison River creating Earthquake (or Quake) Lake. There is a nice visitors center near the lake in the vecinity of US 287 and Montana Hwy 87. The visitors center is built on debris from that collapse. The collapse of the mountainside buried several campgrounds and killed 28 people. In 1903 in Alberta, Canada, a mountainside collapsed and buried part of the town of Frank. Known as the Frank Slide, this collapse killed 76 people and trapped 17 miners in the mine under Turtle Mountain. We happened to visit this area the week that they were opening the visitors center. It is well worth a stop if you are in the area. As you travel the mountains of western North America, for that matter, any mountainous area throughout the world, you can see scars on the mountainsides where rock falls, rock slides, landslides (names vary based on volume of material) have occurred. These are not uncommon, only the largest of them are uncommon. In geology these are lumped together as erosion in a category called mass wasting which just means things sliding or falling downhill. Look for them, you'll see them everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 12, 2016 You where alive in the 1903 area? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obedb Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Research the Slumgullion Slide. Formed Lake San Cristobal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted August 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Manholt said: Would like to see that... It wasn't all that spectacular or noisey. The blast blankets fluffed up a little and not much dust. I was a couple hundred yards away so it wasn't that loud. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbutler Report post Posted August 12, 2016 6 hours ago, Manholt said: You where alive in the 1903 area? Please re-read, we were there when they opened the visitors center. I just checked the date, it was 2008. That is the year the visitors center was opened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obedb Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Still not quite a member of the club. Pretty pic though?. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbutler Report post Posted August 12, 2016 Obedb Said: "Research the Slumgullion Slide. Formed Lake San Cristobal. " Great post! I wasn't familiar with this slide. I'll have to put it on my must see list. The thing that makes this so interesting is that while the lake was formed 600 to 800 years ago, the slide continues to move. It is a mass of loose materials which are slowly creeping downhill. If you google this there is a US Geological Survey article on recent studies of the movement. You could think of this as a kind of dirt glacier, slowly sliding down the mountainside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 13, 2016 Tom...I couldn't help it.. Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayne77590 Report post Posted August 13, 2016 We just finished a ride up Hwy 410 in Washington to near Mount Rainier. The falling rock signs were all over the place and typically followed by a "Rough Road" sign. They fix the roads that are damaged by the rock fall with asphalt but the don't do a good job of smoothing it out. It is quite a rumble strip. Maybe later on in time a good road crew will go in and fix them right. Building a bunker in VN there was a 6-8 foot boulder or more in the way. A piece of C4 about the size of a thumb was used and it pulverized the boulder. EOD placed it just right. Must be the shock wave? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 13, 2016 Wayne. Shock wave of gases that travel at over 25,000 ft/sec. primarily Nitrogen and Carbon Oxide. The gases cut into and expand any little seam. Heat or a bullet will not cause C4 to explode, it takes extreme heat and explosive to do it (blasting cap). When you set it off it will degenerate into gas. In small amounts it will burn and the gas will make you get a euphoric high, Hello VN ! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayne77590 Report post Posted August 13, 2016 And c4 is great for heating C-Rats. (VN '68-69) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
five Report post Posted August 13, 2016 5 hours ago, Wayne77590 said: And c4 is great for heating C-Rats. (VN '68-69) ...or old mogas in a C-rat can full of dirt. (VN '67-'68, '70-'71) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted August 14, 2016 Very grateful I did not have to explore the pros/cons of C-rat. (VN '62-'63) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rsbilledwards Report post Posted August 14, 2016 Carl, You and me both! I was a Navy boy, instrument instructor and the last year in 1970, on preferred sea duty Atsugi, Japan an absolute waste of Navy money and my time but had a great time teaching spoken English grammar on the economy. Thanks to all those guys that put themselves in harms way for the rest of us!!! Bill Edwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted August 14, 2016 Thanks each of you that was there, in VN. Welcome home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
