chucknewman

Since you mention pump and fluid, are you sure the slide is hydraulic? I ask for two reasons: 1. Generally a hydraulic system does not have a "reset switch", but electrical motor slide systems generally do have one. I do know some Safari coaches use a mix of hydraulic and electric slides -- the latter some of which have a "sync" button. 2. I've been amazed (and wrong) before, but I cannot see a manufacturer of a trailer install a hydraulic system of pump, manifold, sump, valves, and high pressure lines for a slide when nothing else on the rig will use it. Just food for thought as you appear unsure of the type of mechanical slide system you have. If Teton still is in business I would give them a call. Chuck

Brett, On a closely related topic of the "vacuum cleaner effect" of rear radiator coaches, I'm concerned about the possibility of plastic bags, empty water bottles, pieces of cardboard boxes, etc. flying around on the pavement being sucked into the rear radiator fan and possibly damaging the fan blades and/or lodging in the CAC fins. To your knowledge has this happened? I'm concerned about the lightweight plastics and paper bags blowing around on the roadways that can get into the fan/CAC area and do damage long before you can get pulled over and shut down. I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the logistics of doing this, but I was considering mounting a fairly large grid (1/2") lightweight fencing material in front of the lower half of the fan intake (if possible) to isolate the larger debris from the fan until getting pulled over and crawl under the coach. Do you know if anyone has tried this? Do you see any problems with it? Thanks, Chuck

Yes, it does work with "ecm". Your efforts are greatly appreciated. Thank you, Chuck

Well I see your upgraded software reformatted and distorted what I actually posted. The stats actually had four (4) distinct results of the searches. This displayed mess really does not make logical sense of my post. If what you see (and type) is not what you get, it's just another black hole. Chuck

Thank you all for the replies. As you probably suspected following 4 decades of electronics engineering I do know the definitions of ecm, ecu, pcm, etal; all used by various vehicle manufacturers to represent components of various control systems. Contrary to how that sounds, I don't take offense to any comments. In fact I usually encourage them as I frequently learn new issues from statements / ideas on this and other forums. My point is I also know people tend to use abbreviations or other monikers to describe common multi-worded names or uses for computer related issues on a daily basis. Whether vehicle related or otherwise. If I understand the philosophy of any forum and particularly one representing the entire spectrum of functions of motor coaching, it is to make both technical and non-technical information easily available (by searching if necessary) to it's members. And it being well known most folks (ie. non-professional writers), write with the same vocabulary they speak with, most written searches will include those words and/or mnemonics people speak to each other on a daily basis. An example of what I'm saying: Just now I made a simple search for "ecm" and "engine control module", exactly as typed here, on two other forums. One maintained by another RVing club organization with the same and/or similar topics, and the other a bus conversion forum. The results are listed below. RV forum Bus conversion forum Term "ecm" 106 different threads 97 different threads Term "engine control module" 2 different threads 0 threads "This means that if you search for "ecm flash," the search engine will ignore "ecm" and just search for "flash." Similar results for a search for "ecm upgrade." In each of these cases, not a big deal -- you will get results." Actually, the stats above show it is a "big deal" because you don't get results of finding the information one seeks to learn about issues related to a specific topic -- the real purpose of a forum board. Tmoning, don't take this as a personal attack as I fully realize you are a "man in the middle" trying to help with questions and complaints as best you can. And I do appreciate that. But I've been in this business too long to hear "The Company Line" of excuses for selecting mediocre software. Even worse staying with the same vendor during an upgrade for same. As one of my fellow posters recently said, "It is what it is!" And I will accept that. But in my opinion, that's unfortunate, and has a debilitating effect on the usefulness of this board. But then, it certainly is in line with FMCA's management take-it or leave-it attitude of issues in general. I leave this subject in order to get back to my original endeavor of finding information on ECM flash modules, programs, procedures and effects. Chuck

With the old software and with this new upgrade when I search for a very common word(s) or term(s) such as "ecm flash" or "ecm upgrade" I get this error message: One or all of your search keywords were below 4 characters or you searched for words which are not allowed, such as 'html', 'img', etc, please increase the length of these search keywords or choose different keywords. We discuss ecm's all the time on this board. Why the 4 character limitation. I have never run into this on any other forum software. Chuck

Go to: http://www.wricointernational.com/generator_bay/sound_vibration_reduction.html I've seen this material in action inside a diesel generator "sound box" on bus conversions. You can stand next to a running generator and have a normal conversation. My Onan hangs in the open under the floor and this material greatly reduced the noise inside the bedroom. Of course it didn't do anything for the noise outside. Chuck

Has anyone used Kool Seal elastomeric coating on their fiberglass roof? Likes or dislikes? Chuck

Thank you Brett for the information. That helps me make the decision to use the already installed infrastructure. Using the same model new pump will cost about twice as much as the immersion heater, but much easier to install. And it eliminates the separate power issue. Chuck

Brett, "Are you sure you don't already have a 120 VAC block heater?" Well, not totally sure. I put one into a Detroit Series 50 engine so I know what the element and power cord look like. I don't see that anywhere on my block. Plus I've never heard of SMC putting them on any of their coaches. I have no dash switch indicating same. I've studied, diagrammed, and maintained the hydronic system. I know all I need to do to is to pump the engine coolant through the existing heat exchanger when the engine is off. I can install a pump bypass valve to effectively remove the pump from the engine coolant flow when the engine water pump is running. Brett, with heated engine coolant to about 170 to 180 degrees, I presume the 190 degree CAT thermostats won't fully open. Will that make a difference as far as circulating hot coolant around the engine? Does the 3126B have a thermostat bypass like most automotive engines? Chuck

My CAT 3126B air inlet heater appears to be working OK, though I haven't spent a lot of time in really cold climates. That may change this winter. I have a diesel furnace that also heats the hot water. Part of the system consists of a heat exchanger that uses engine coolant to heat the hydronic system coolant (and HWH) to warm the entire coach while driving down the road. It works very well without using the furnace. But it won't work in reverse without another electric pump to circulate the engine coolant when the engine is off; warming the block while using the diesel furnace. Is this feasible? Will I need to bypass the new pump when the engine is running? Will the 3126B thermostats affect the flow? Is the direction of flow important? Or another option: I see immersion type electric block heaters for sale, supposedly for the 3126B engine, but can't find any installation data. Is there an unused port somewhere on the 3126B block where this of block heater is typically installed? I lean toward the added pump system since it won't require 120 vac all night to heat the engine. Not always on shore power. Or is the air inlet heater all I need for temperatures down to and below zero degrees F at high altitudes with thin air? Chuck

Welcome to the FMCA forums. I had a '96 Beaver Patriot and currently have a '98 Safari, both made by SMC as was the Monterey. On both Patriot and Safari the chassis fuses were in an externally accessed electric compartment at the left front of the motorhome. A listing of all fuse locations was in both compartments. Chuck

Bill, it's 7 pm in Raton, NM. If you're not worn out, I'll give you a call to help. If you like, send me your phone number to Chuck

Sorry Bill. Didn't mean to shift the focus from you. Have you corralled those wayward voltage readings? Do you have a "three neon light" outlet tester on board? Chuck

Brett, I totally hear you. This same issue was on this board recently. Shoddy workmanship (licensed or not) appears to be increasing. And management's denial is just garbage. I don't care who they are. The only usable recourse is for the RVer to protect ourselves and our equipment, and move on when confronted with this "gee, no other complaints" baloney surfaces. And state the incident here so we can make our own decisions on patronizing their business. Chuck

Herman, Your post "Let us know how changing the GFIs works. I don't know much about them but are they any thing like a surge protector?" Well, they were fried as I suspected. Unless the GFI is designed for 240vac (they do exist in GFCB form factor) putting that voltage on a GFI designed for 120vac will fry the electronic circuit within. Just like a radio, television, etc. plugged into 240 vac. Smoke city! Ground fault interrupters sense a current fault to ground (either through a ground wire or through your body to earth) by measuring the transverse current in the hot and neutral lines. They have minimal surge / transient protection for their own circuit. They do not protect the "downstream" devices from surges. Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV) are devices in surge suppression strips and other forms to fire at a certain voltage (varies with model) and actually absorb the voltage/current surge. This is the "power" which generates heat. And why they turn black when destroyed themselves -- usually protecting an electronic device. The arc fault circuit breaker detects "arcing" in electrical wiring either in the wall or a lamp cord, for example. They do this by being programmed at the factory to recognize the "waveform pattern" of various types of arcs. When they see one, they open the circuit. They are required on all bedroom branch circuits by NEC. Three devices to protect equipment and personnel, but each has a specific function. They do not overlap. But you can double your protection by placing an AFCB downstream from a GFCB to protect a single branch circuit. Chuck

Bill, Your Comment "If I check the red leg connected to the circuits on that leg they read 208 (no ground, just the meter connected to the incoming red connection and the output from the breaker." I read this several times. If no ground reference to your meter, you are not getting a true reading. To check voltage you must reference to ground. Your multimeter red lead goes to the red or black wire in the panel. The multimeter's black lead goes to neutral or ground connection in the panel. Ideally you should check voltage with the black test lead on neutral, then on ground. Variations in reading by more than a volt or two indicate a wiring issue, if that occurs. While typing this, your above post came in. You have at least one electrical panel in your coach. The one with the four GFCB's and some circuit breakers. Some coaches, especially bus conversions like yours, have more than one, but let's keep it simple for now. This "panel" that contains your breakers should have a large #6 AWG wire in black, another in red, and another in white; coming into this panel. The other posters have been saying to measure the voltage at these conductors. Use a good multimeter in the manner mentioned here. You should have about 110 vac to 126vac from the red to white wires, and from the black to white wires. This will tell us if the incoming feeders to the "electrical panel" are working correctly. Most likely so since the GFCB circuits are now working OK, as you stated. Chuck

Bill, Posted "Let's remember that coach wiring is different from house wiring." The only thing different is how the ground is connected at the coach and on the shore side. The branch circuits are wired the same on RV's per NEC and ANSI code, the latter being used as the RVIA code. I would start at the beginning and check for correct polarities at the entrance to the coach, then follow logically to all sub-panels. Disconnect the coach and turn off the inverter. Do resistance checks beginning at the 50 amp plug for any shorts. Continue to all the panels. For all your branch circuits close all breakers and disconnect all plug in devices and do resistance checks for shorts. If you have a short from L1 or L2 to neutral or ground you will see it. Make notes as you go. I know you're a methodical guy. All the GFCB's and arc fault circuit breaker's (AFCB) I've installed clipped into the box's breaker positon and the white wire from the breaker is connected to the neutral bus bar. The black and white wires going to the branch circuit outlets from the GFCB screw terminals are the hot and neutral wires for that individual circuit of outlets. In order to substitute a standard circuit breaker you most connect the black wire from the GFCB screw terminal and connect it to the replacement breaker terminal. Then you must remove the white wire from the GFCB screw terminal and connect it to the neutral bus bar in the panel. If that individual circuit then works OK you know you have a fried GFCB. We are going to be in Colorado Springs tomorrow for a month. Are you anywhere nearby? Chuck

Bill, Per your first post, you can simply replace each Ground Fault Circuit Breaker (GFCB) with a standard circuit breaker. All the outlets downstream of that breaker will probably function OK, but it is a good idea to check all four circuits. Whether one talks about a Ground Fault Receptacle (GFR) or a GFCB, both are "ground fault interrupters", and both sense an imbalance in transverse current between hot and neutral lines. They do not sense current from the hot line to ground line as many people erroneously think. That is why you won't find any green or bare ground wires on a GFCB. And they both have active electronic circuitry inside them that measure the imbalance current and trip open the embedded contactor. As you mentioned, if the coach somehow got 240vac across the GFCB's they may be fried. Again easy to check with a breaker if you have a spare, or purchase another CFCB and replace one of the defective ones as a test. But before all that, take a voltmeter and make sure your main panelboard and all sub-panels have 120vac to neutral and ground from each hot leg. And 240vac across the hot legs. This will only take a few minutes and will provide a firm benchmark for further testing. I thought you had a HW-50C of something similar to prevent this sort of thing. Or did you, and still suffered an anomaly? Let us know what you find. Chuck

Robert, I've drilled several holes in the roof, and recently one 4" hole in the side of the coach for a dryer vent. If you can see bare fiberglass of the end cap as I can in the front of our coach, go ahead and drill the size hole you want for antennas, spotlights, etc. But when you want to safely go through the ceiling (or wall) consisting of one or more layers of fabric, wallpaper, cover board, foam insulation, and roof material do the following: 1. Determine where you want to run the cable through the ceiling (or wall) to the exterior. Check the exterior at that point for mounted obstructions. 2. If all looks OK, use a hole saw bit for the size hole required attached to a drill, and carefully drill the ceiling fabric and backing (or other coating) until you see bits of insulation. This will usually happen about 1/8" to 1/4" into the cut. Then stop. 3. Take a screwdriver and carefully clean out the insulation all the way to the solid cover on the roof. This could be anything from 2" to 5" of insulation. Just slowly spin the screwdriver and the insulation will fall out. The point of this is if you encounter wires you will not damage them and in most cases still can use the new hole for your cable. I've done exactly that. If you encounter a wood or metal brace (as I have) you can start a new hole. Do not drill through the support structure (beams) of the coach. 4. When the hole is cleaned out, you have two options: A. Continue drilling in the same inside to outside direction with the hole saw through the solid roof material. B. Drill a small pilot hole from inside to outside. Then go onto the roof and drill down with the hole saw using the pilot hole you just made. 5. Hole is done with no damage. The point of "B" above is when you need a cosmetically clean edged hole on the outside. Drilling all the way through a wall or ceiling will cause some level of splintering or otherwise a rough surface around the hole exterior. Not generally important for a hole in the roof that will be covered with Dicor sealant or Silicone sealant, but important when drilling a hole all the way through the wall. I don't understand your comment "...(obviously I am not going to drill all the way through the ceiling)?" If you want to run a wire or cable through a wall or ceiling, then that is exactly what you need to do. Regarding the CB antenna, even though my coach is mostly aircraft aluminum it does not make a good ground plane. Add the fact that the end caps are fiberglass and you have no good ground plane at all for the antenna. Most RV manufacturers use the wrong antenna on fiberglass bodies because they don't know and/or care. They know you will get some communication as long as the distance is close. For that reason I purchased a Firestik (Firestik.com) no-ground CB antenna designed to work on non-metal surfaces. Note that the attached coax cable is part of the tuned antenna system and must not be cut or modified in any way. Note also that it will give you a little better coverage but it is questionable, in my opinion, for the cost and labor involved to remove the old one and install the new antenna. Unless you're using a higher powered radio. Chuck

Nancy posted: "Something keeps blowing the circuit...every time we reset, it trips again." What does the circuit breaker that keeps tripping (blowing) list on the breaker's handle? It will be molded into the plastic as 15, 20, or 30. If the circuit breaker rating is 15 or 20 (amps) that would indicate to me that something is plugged into that circuit and is shorted to ground OR you have a miswired or defective GFR in the coach. I have seen both situations. Before doing anything else, unplug everything on every outlet in the coach. Don't forget outlets for washer/dryer, in storage area, engine area, and exterior. Does the breaker continue to trip when switched on? If so you have a short in the wiring or a receptacle/fixture and will need professional help to find it. Do you have a wiring diagram for the coach? If the circuit breaker rating is 30 that means it is feeding your inverter and the wiring to the inverter or the inverter itself has a short to ground. You didn't say is this a new (to you) coach or have you had it for some time. If the latter I presume the circuit worked OK previously. Which is it? Please let us know what you find. Chuck

The ECM in the link below will look very similar to the ECM on your CAT engine. I have read a post in the past of the same problem that was the result of a defective inlet air temp sensor. Also the inlet air temp relay could be defective (intermittent contact closure). The engine electronic/fuel system diagram: here Chuck

nanseecat, Welcome to the FMCA forums. Find your 120vac circuit breaker box. It will look very similar to one in a house. Look for one or more circuit breaker handles that is in the center position. This will indicate an open breaker due to previous overload on that circuit. Also you should have a circuit breaker that feeds your inverter. It needs to be in the on position also. If you don't see any centered handles, then turn all the breakers off, then back on. One of them will feed one or more of the ground fault receptacles (GFR). You should only have two or three GFR's in the coach. But the number is not important right now. Another possibility: Many coaches have some GFR's not fed by the inverter, and some GFR's that are fed from the inverter. In our coach we have that situation. With that in mind, check to see if your inverter is turned on. If your inverter output feeds the GFR's directly and it is powered down, the you will have no power at the GFR outlets. Also some coaches will have a secondary circuit breaker panel that is fed from the output of the inverter. If you have one of those, check that all the breakers are on. Exercise them off to on as described above. Let us know if this helps. Chuck

Robert, Shortly after we got this coach I removed the crank up Winegard TV antenna on our coach and replaced it with a Winegard omnidirectional amplified UFO style TV antenna. We rarely use it as we usually watch Directv. In fact I installed the omni antenna only to watch local TV station weather reports while traveling in the Great Plains and Midwest. I mention the removal because I left the base rotator assembly installed to mount a high gain narrow lobe yagi 2.4GHz antenna onto it. I cut off an 8" piece of the original Winegard square tubing and mounted it back onto the swivel base. I then mounted the yagi antenna onto the tubing and brought the coax down through the roof to a Buffalo wireless bridge. The Ethernet output of the bridge goes to a Linksys wireless router that also is used with the Hughes Net service. I'll send some photos in the next couple days. We really haven't used the WiFi system because we use satellite running 24/7 with either/both our cell phone's 3G Broadband to WiFi capability as a backup. But for most folks who RV your seminar will be great information for them. Good luck on your project, Chuck

Bill, The WiFi Ranger looks interesting, but the specs show Wireless Antenna: Integrated MIMO. Is there any way to use an external antenna with the Ranger? Also, can you program off the "intelligent failover capabilities" to dumb? Meaning non-automatic search and switch? Thanks, Chuck