dons2346

" I don't know who makes what but there are a number of actual employees getting actual paychecks from the CEO down to the folks to run the mail room. " A really profound statement. I know of no one that works for a living that doesn't draw a paycheck

" I don't need to recruit anyone so that some guy in the golden office who clearly doesn't know how to run his own business can get a bigger paycheck." So Bill, why don't you tell us who is in the golden office that gets a big paycheck? I would like to know as would everyone else on this board.

The 10 year rule was bought up by Seven Corners because they said the professional drivers didn't want to drive a coach over 10 years old because of a possible "breakdown". Baloney to me but that is their rule.. Now, what Seven Corners will do is allow you to find your own driver to drive your over 10 year old coach and will pay expenses up to the maximum of $5,000. This $5K limit also applies to the cost of having a pro driver deliver your coach. I would much rather have a friend that is knowledgeable drive my coach that someone unknown that drives it like he stole it. Have you ever been on the highway headed to a convention and be passed by the show coaches driving 70-80 plus?

There was a "workshop" held the day before to iron out a preliminary definition of a "recreation vehicle". A rec vehicle was defined as: A recreation vehicle is a self contained wheeled vehicle that includes permanently installed cooking, sleeping, and sanitary facilities. There were questions about tent trailers and pickup slide in campers and it was the opinion that if they were self contained and otherwise fit the description, they would be acceptable. On my way back to the Pacific Northwet, I talked to a tiny house owner in a campground and yes it was self contained! There are tiny houses that are built to RVIA standards. One woman got up and spoke about her not wanting pickup slide in campers or tent trailers. Another gentleman got up and said his son just spent $83,000 on a truck and $63,000 on a slide in camper! All this money was Canadiian funds, not US The definition that was come up with, in my opinion is very loose and not very good. This definition, as bad as it is, cannot come into effect until the GB meeting in Gillette next summer. It can still be changed but until then, what would happen if someone wanted to join with a boat? There are some trailer boats (Nordic Tug comes to mind) that will set you back $600,000! There is no legal way to keep them from joining. Another poster brought up the FMCAssist. Good question that most likely hadn't been broached with Seven Corners with reference to towing someone's trailer. Would the 10 year age limit apply and they have to find a driver on their own?

Ross has been around since dirt so maybe knows the answer to this question. Years ago there was a vote put to the membership where a stamped envelope along with the ballot was sent to every member. It was most likely a vote on the constitution as the articles haven't been messed with. All the members had to do was put their "X" in the box, sign their name along with their F#, put the ballot in the envelope and put it in the mail. So, Ross, do you remember how many ballots were returned? Back in those days membership was over 100,000 and I think they received less than 1,000 ballots returned. Kids> Well at entertainment one night. there were three aged around 4-5 sitting in the row head of us. They were up, down, crawling over the seats, talking and carrying on so much we moved. I really don't blame the kids but their parents. Yes, I know it is hard to keep kids that age in their seats for very long. Towables> I don't understand why the recently past president actually ran a towable out of one of his rallies. Took the treasurer over to the trailer and told him he wasn't welcome and the treasurer refunded the rally fee. Now he is all for them. At the recent Chandler convention and this Indy one, if you look at the registration form, if you came in a towable, it was mandatory that electric be purchased. Why was that? The idea has been drummed into our heads that without the towable influx, FMCA will go down the tubes. This notion is like the Chicken Little theory that the sky is falling which is totally not true. All I can say is that the GB did the right thing by passing it on to the membership to make the decision so it is up to you, the member.

In the past,there was a vote of the membership needed, I don't remember what the occasion was, probably the constitution. Each F# was sent a ballot and an addressed stamped envelope to return the ballot in. Guess what? Those returned amounted to about 1,000 members. Can you imagine the cost of that failure? .It is a fact that if something doesn't directly affect a member, they don't care and won't take the 5 minutes to fill out a ballot or spend 45 cents to mail it back

If any of you belong to a chapter, take some blank ballots to your next campouts. Have those assembled, fill out the ballot and then you can send them in one envelope. It is legal to make copies of the ballot and have them filled out. Just remember, only one ballot per F#. So, you have a chance to collect ballots at three campouts before the deadline.

You might be able to get the exact wording that was passed on the FMCA website.. We did not change a single word in any of the documents as presented. the wording that was changed was from "motorhome" or "motorcoach" to "recreation vehicle". If you can't find the original proposals presented, just find the documents (articles of incorporation, bylaws, and constitution) and substitute the words.

Sorry folks but allowing towables is not a done deal yet. The changes to the documents have to be approved by the GB and then sent to the membership. If any of the documents get shot down by the GB, the issue is DEAD. If it does get to the membership, you will have to vote with the ballot in the magazine. If you don't vote, and vote NO then you do not have a ***** when towable are let it. The way the documents are being presented to the GB, pretty much ANYTHING can become a member be it a boat, motorcycle, seado, etc. There is nothing that defines what a recreation vehicle is in any of the documents. By the way, FMCA is not about to go broke as some are talking about. There are those that are preaching the "sky is falling" just to garner votes for "recreation vehicles". How many of you have requested a quarterly report from FMCA? How many of you have requested a copy of the annual audit? I can probably count the number with one hand.

Can you 100% prove this statement? No you can't Have you been around long enough to remember back to 2011 when VZ pulled the same stunt?

I think you whiners need to put your big girl panties on and deal with it. Does anyone remember way back to 2011 when VZ pulled the same stunt? probably not.

You fellas aren't reading the proposed articles and the proposed constitution. They have removed the words "motorhome" and or "motorcoach" and have replaced it with "recreation vehicle". Now with zero definition of what would be constituted as a "recreation vehicle" I can join FMCA with my boat, my motorcycle, my airplane. There is nothing that defines what a recreation vehicle is! The verbage cannot be changed before the GB votes to accept the changes to the documents, we have to vote them they way they are presented. So, in a campground get ready for a boat with a goose egg on it parked next to you

If the documents are approved as presented to the GB, someone with a sea do can become a member. Remember the wording is "recreation vehicle". There is zero deffinition of what a "recreation vehicle" is. Heck, if I wasn't a current member, I could join with my boat!

The question that was brought up in an earlier post about how many current members will drop if towables are brought in does hold merit. I for one, know five that will drop FMCA if this happens. Reasoning being why pay $60 for what I can get from Good Sam for $20. The only thing that would be different is the assist but that can be had pretty cheap on the secondary market

Sorry Ross, but I do not agree with you. This whole thing of towables has been shoved down our throats. We have been bombarded with the chicken little story that if we do not approve the towable issue, FMCA will go down the toilet. There was zero studies done to determine if any towables want/will join. FMCA has spent over $260,000 on advertising, where was it spent? I spent time in a Cummins repair facility and had time to read all the magazines in the rack which included Trailer Life, Motorhome, Escapees, plus a few others. None of those magazines had anything in them about FMCA . Problem with passing the articles and constitution as they now stand is that there is zero definition of the proposed "recreation vehicle". With the current wording, a snowmobile, a bicycle or a boat can join FMCA.. I know there will be someone stand up and propose some "guidelines" as to what is considered a "recreation vehicle" to be used until further revisions can be made but what happens when I want to join with my boat? Is FMCA going to tell me no? If that is the case, FMCA could be open to a lawsuit. It is best that this mess be shot down until these items are fixed. The way it is now, we are doing something stupid and asking for forgiveness later.

If you know Jean Pryor "L something.something",she has also rolled over to the trailer camp. In the past she was dead set against them. She is the ND for the 100 plus chapter and has told them this needs to pass

Ross, aren't the proposed changes to the articles, if approved by the GB, also supposed to be voted on by the membership? I think so. If the GB doesn't approve the changes to the articles, everything is dead. If the GB approves the proposed changes, those changes along with the constitution changes,if approved. will be sent to the membership.The GB can vote to approve the bylaw changes but if the other stuff fails an up vote, these changes are also dead. What I don't understand is how can three different documents be placed into one proposal for a single vote. I think if this was challenged in court, it cause someone to suck wind. Keon, your answer hit the nail on the head! They want to be a part of the "good boys club" but don't want to pay for it.. Little story here. While in Mexico I ran into a coach with the egg on it and after them raising a stink, I checked their number both on line and a call to Cincinnati which resulted in not finding them as a member. I went to them told them they were not an active member so could I assist them in removing the egg. You should have heard the tongue lashing I got. Maybe because I embarrassed them in front of their friends who were active members. Their number was a low number by the way. For those that asked about how to kill this, watch your magazine for the ballots. Vote your preference. It has been determined that a photo copy of the ballot will be legal so make copies and approach anyone with an egg and ask for a vote. Those ballots can be sent to the accounting firm in one envelope. The executive board has done this in the past. In the first round to the membership to vote on allowing changes to the articles to be made resulted in roughly 650 ballots being returned. This is out of a membership of over 70,000! Out of those approx 500 voted to allow changes so here we are. Herman, to your question about new eggs with the "P". No way will there be new eggs issued because of cost. You will be issued some white paint so you can make the "F" into a "P". Just to refresh your minds, pull up the Dec '16 issue of the magazine and read what was proposed and see what it is now. Two totally different things. I think it is on page 10, not sure but it is on the left hand page at the bottom.

Keon, by your post and your comments about those you talked to, it sounds like they still have the egg on the coach but dropped their membership. Question is why haven't they removed the egg? Carl, it is interesting that Adcock actually took his area treasurer over to a trailer that came to his area rally, told the trailer he wasn't welcome and the treasurer returned his rally fee.

Texan, I'd like to comment on some of your observations/concerns " The article appearing in an earlier edition of the FMCA magazine cited that membership from 2004 to date is down by 595,000 members " No way did FMCA loose 595,000 members. In fact, the membership back in the good old days was in the 120,000 range. The 595K number is bogus. " The article stated that FMCA’s proposed solution: "To open membership to towables." My question, is this really going to work? I think one must look long and hard as to whether this is really a solution. When FMCA solicits membership, it is to those of motorhome owners. In all likelihood, one chooses to join FMCA because of what it is, an organization dedicated to motorhome owners. " I think the answer to this question is a solid NO. There has been zero studies done where towable organizations have been contacted asking the question; Would you like to join FMCA? It hasn't been done. " I read with concern a posting by a member on line that seemed to indicate the Board may consider an outside consultant to review and provide ideas on growing membership. To utilize an outside consulting group would equate to the same as the government hiring outside consultants to do a study for a substantial amount of money only to return results that could have been had without such a study. " FMCA has, for a number of years, has had an outside marketing firm which was supposed to assist us in obtaining new members. This last year FMCA has spent over $264,000 on "marketing". Now you ask me, where has FMCA been marketed? I have no clue. This 264K does not include whatever was paid to the marketing company. This is one of my sore spots. " I've read both on line and in print the attendance numbers are dwindling for the Rallies. Is this the "aging" population referenced in the article; or, might it just be that the "same old, same old" just isn’t working any longer? " I agree here. There are just so many seminars you can attend telling you how to clean the RV " . FMCAssist Medical Program: An extensive amount of detail is set out as to the costs associated with the FMCAssist Medical program, citing the cost of increase from $4.32 per member family to $8.52 per family member currently. The article further stated that by "adding younger FMCA members this would help with the loss ratio." My question would be Isn’t this the same concept that failed currently under the Affordable Health Care Act? This didn’t work. By opening up FMCA to towables, is FMCA really going to bring in that many more "younger" members to help offset the cost of the product; or is FMCA going to loose members for the reasons that FMCA is no longer dedicated to motorhome owners. Before joining an organization, it stands to reason that as a consumer, one looks to join the organization that gives you the most bang for your buck. If FMCA is open to all, including towables, then the decision for a member becomes which organization will give me the most for my membership dues. Does FMCA provide such benefits to compete?　 " You mixed up a bunch of stuff here. I do know that the Assist program is well worth it based on conversations I have had with people that have used it. Problem with young people is that they think they are indestructible and don't need anything like the assist program just like health insurance. ". One solution to rising magazine cost might be to go with only the digital version and forego the printed option. This most likely will meet with a lot of criticisms, especially among the "aging generation" however, in today’s world, its all about the internet. The magazines are nice to look at and the quality of paper and color is nice, but once you read them, they most likely go in the trash or recycle box. " Me personally,, I still like the hand held magazine. Reading something on line just doesn't cut it. When I get finished with the magazine, I usually leave it in some campground library. " Might there be other ways to cut costs? Having been involved in a large organization, there is always somewhere to cut costs in order to bring about a more positive bottom line. Without being political and/or stepping on toes, what about expenses associated with the Board members or others involved in the Association? Might it be that travel expenses, rally fees and/or reimbursement expenses might need to be looked at and adjusted? This is, I'm sure, a very sensitive area, but one that must be considered. " National officers are expected to get out among the members by attending area rallies and some chapter functions. Do you feel that the officers should foot the bill for their travels? I can tell you that travel budgets have been sliced very severely as compared to years ago. " There are other competing organizations out there (Good Sam, Escapees and others) and, if opened up to towables, from a personal standpoint, we would have to look seriously as to which one (1) organization to maintain membership. If there are three different organizations out there opened to all types of rigs, then the choice would be simple, we would ask ourselves which organization provides the best value and savings for our money. Can and/or would FMCA be able to provide that value and savings? " Very true. My neighbor joined FMCA because it is specifically for motorcoaches. Yes, if FMCA does vote to allow towables, it will become another Good Sam. So, which would you join, one that is 60 bucks a year or one that is 20. There are insurance programs out there that can provide the same benefits as the assist program as well as the tire discount program. Depending on how the GB votes, you may or may not get a chance to vote on the articles of incorporation and then possibly the constitution. I'm not telling you how to vote, just vote how you feel

It depends on the transmission and transfer case you have. Look in the owner's manual for a topic of "recreational towing". It will explain if you can tow it and the procedure to do so. Not all GC's with auto trans and 4x4 can be towed 4 down

According to trace, the RC7 will not start and stop the genny. For generator controls you need the RC7GS

FMCA has not "farmed" the class B&C markets. The only reason I can think of is the old adage of "that's the way we have always done it". What has worked in the past wil not work in the future and the answer is not the towable market. The conventions are loaded with 40ft plus coaches and very few B and C class coaches because all the manufacturers want to sell the big ones for the profit margin. Maybe the conventions should have a better mix of coaches.More and more people are downsizing and looking in the 24 to 34 foot range and they aren't there Just a couple of thoughts after happy hour.

Not to sure about the RV industry being in the tank. A month ago lead time for a new Villa couch was 10 weeks, this past week it is now out to 16 weeks. I also got a bid for a new paint job and the first time I can get it done is during the Dec through March time frame. There is a huge market for older coach remodels because a lot of the new coaches are full of fuu fuu and no substance

The only ones squawking are a few on the executive board. It has been determined that a membership of 50-70,000 is enough to sustain FMCA. Dues might have t go up but it is possible without having towables. The magazine used to be the big money maker but revenue has fallen in recent times however the magazine staff hasn't changed one bit! The only thing that has been cut is the office staff which is utterly stupid.. Think about this for a minute. Look how this has been presented to the membership and the governing board. It has been presented as a "must have to do" or we will fail. As far as I know, there has been zero studies done to determine even if towables want or will join. Venues that do have motorhomes such as dog shows, horse shows, etc have not been approached with a booth extolling the greatness of FMCA. It has been said that the marketing company hired by FMCA spent $264,000 on advertising and recruitment. Where was it spent? The $250,000 given to rVillage was not included in that amount. So Hayes Family, don't give up yet. There is a chance that the membership will not have to vote on this.It depends on what happens during the GB meeting