tireman9

I understand the challenge confronting tire purchase decision. You might review my post http://community.fmca.com/topic/8109-double-coin-tires/#entry58870 I can't address your cost as there is a lot of variation around the country.

Gayle Reasonable question and you get extra "points" for paying attention to your actual tire loading. I have no idea why Michelin decided to present their information http://www.michelinrvtires.com/reference-materials/load-and-inflation-tables/#/ on for the pair of tires when in dual position, other than to set their tires as special. The Industry tables are published on individual tire capacity I am confident that you can do the math even is some others aren't I am glad you check your inflation before a trip but would be more confident in your safe travels if you said you use a TPMS. Tom Butler's approach is a reasonable one and isn't much different in the end result as my normal suggestion.

You might want to read my post of Jan 4 on the Double Coin thread. It might provide some additional information to help with your decision.

I always like facts and numbers. A bit more information. According to Modern Tire Dealer pg 37 there are four tiers of tire companies in the US market "Tier 1 (major tire companies’ premium brands): Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear. Tier 2 (upper- and middle-market brands): Continental, Pirelli, Hankook, Yokohama, Toyo, Falken, Kumho, Dunlop, Cooper, Firestone, BFGoodrich, General. Tier 3 (value brands; all private brands): Nexen, Hercules, Multi-Mile, GT Radial, Mastercraft, Sumitomo, Big O, Cordovan, Delta, Fierce, Fuzion, Kelly, Nitto, Sigma, Landsail, Delinte, Kenda, Vredestein, Nokian, Sailun, Eldorado, Uniroyal. Tier 4 (low-cost brands): Atturo, Linglong, Goodride, Dynatrac, Warrior, Duraturn, Aeolus, Zenna, Starfire, Primewell, Federal. These levels do not mean that all Tier 2 are better than all Tier 3 but IMO the ranking can be useful as the level do line up with technical resources, manufacturing capability, number of sales outlets Check chart 11 on pg 40 and you will see Bridgestone has the largest number of outlets. Note the above is passenger & LT type tire info Truck (RV) tire info starts on pg 46 and may be more applicable to Class-A owners. RE quality. Would you think that a company making poor quality tires would have a large market share? Low price can only get you a new customer but truck companies buy based on price/durability/performance not just low cost.

Sounds like you have done due diligence. If I had your coach I would do the following: Consult the Load/Infl tables and using the heavier end of an axle establish the MINIMUM Cold Inflation Pressure for all tires on that axle or MCIP Do the same for each axle I would then add a margin of at least 10% to that minimum inflation to establish my Goal Cold Inflation Pressure or GCIP I would set my TPM low air warning level to the MCIP and when checking or setting tire pressure with air hose and hand gauge shoot for the GCIP Now having said the above, I would suggest you read my blog post of Oct 7 2015 "Don't get your shorts in a bunch about tire inflation" The +10 psi figure is reasonable when we talk about 22.5 size tires that have inflation levels near 100psi. I am trying to shy away from a specific number of psi as we have some readers that have tires that only need about 50 psi to carry their load. Tire pressure response is really a percent of the base inflation so since we could be discussing anything from 30 psi to 130 psi giving a specific figure can lead to misunderstanding. About a year ago I ended up pointing out a problem on the Tire Rack web site when they were suggesting tire pressure increases by 1 psi for each rise in tire temperature of 10°F. That figure is essentially correct as the average customer that Tire Rack is talking to is concerned about their passenger car tires but some Class-A RV owners were incorrectly using the 1 psi figure. When I pointed this out to Tire Rack they changed their web page to the 2 percent figure. and also don't get too concerned about the hot tire pressure. The real change in tire pressure for a temperature increase of 10°F is about 2% as I covered in the technical post "Why does my tire lose pressure? Simple and Technical answers" RE Safety Margin. will be writing a blog post on this topic in a few weeks as it is a very involved topic. But the short answer is to suggest that you not try and play games with your safety and just assume there is no extra margin or that the margin has been consumed by the damage done when you hit that last pot hole. As always you should not select a GCIP that exceeds the max pressure for your wheels.

Another thing to consider with any tire purchase is the Warranty and ease of finding a dealer that can get a replacement tire. It is possible to get an un-reparable puncture in any brand or size tire. You might check tire dealers in areas you travel to see if there are dealers that carry or can get a replacement of the brand / size / type in a reasonable time. You might get a great low price from :"Billy-Jo-Bob's cheap tire and bait shop" but that won't do you any good if you are 1,000 miles away from Billy-Jo's one and only outlet. The internet can provide a lot of information on number and location of dealers.

Personally I like long warranty ( 3 + years sounds good and longer is even better). A good digital gauge can be had for $10 so be sure you consider the real value of "extras" whenever making any purchase of any product.

IMO the most important area of the tire for long term durability, assuming you NEVER operate the tires below the minimum needed to support the load, is internal to the tire belt edge. This is about 1/2" deep inside the shoulder of the tire (tread edge). This area cannot be inspected without X-Ray type inspection called Shearography which is $$$. If you want to learn a bit about how a real inspection is completed watch these two videos. Video 1 Video 2 Now I suppose you could find a truck tire retread shop and pay to have the tire inspected as if it were to be retreaded. If those inspectors approved your tires for retread then you could be fairly confident the tire structure is sound. I have never heard of a retread shop being set-up for "retail" tire inspection and of course you would need to have all your tires de-mounted for the few hours it would take for the inspection, then have tire tires, if OK re-mounted. I am fairly confident it may be more cost effective to just get new tires.

Roland. First let me congratulate you on making the good decision to get a TPMS for your RV. We all know that avoiding tire failure is a very important safety measure for the RV owner to take. But when some ask What is the "best" brand tire or Best RV or maybe even the Best pizza, people seem to think that there is a single answer to almost every brand selection that everyone will agree on. I think you will agree that what might be "best" for me may not be "best" for you. I wrote a blog post "Best TPMS" . Wile it doesn't name a specific brand or model, I did try and identify features and benefits that I feel you should consider when comparing different units. I hope that after you review my list you may be able to make a more informed buying decision based on your personal wants and needs and not on a popularity contest. IMO almost any functioning TPMS is better than none. Roger.

Well if the DOT serial date confirms the tires were made in 2005 / 2006 your tires are 10 years old which means you really should replace them. With luck you can find a tire dealer that has local truck customers (dump, trash, construction etc) that might generate $50 or so per tire. I would NOT sell them to anyone that would use them for general highway use.

Sorry but I know of no wheels made with the valve hole on what would be on the outside the outer wheel is a dual position. All wheels have but one valve hole and it would be on the "outside" when the wheel is mounted on the front (single) position and on the "inside" when the wheel is mounted in the "outer position" when in dual application.

I know Tiretraker has two levels of "early warning" and their new TT500 unit has lifetime warranty. Each TPMS company should have a web site with the specs for its unit. If no web site then I would put that brand on my 2nd tier list.

I would be very careful on making assumptions of tire ride unless you have done back to back comparison with new tire vs new tire on the same roads. Having spent years trying to get "approval" on new cars of tires I was designing it is a highly specialized "art" and skill to have an educated butt that is sensative enought to feel the real differences between tires.

Sorry Don but there is no way for me to know tire availability by size & brand. I will suggest that you look for nearest "truck" tire dealers and also do a Google search on the tire size to see what you find. If the tire company has a dealer network I would consider that a plus for the brand over a tire company that has no brick & mortar stores anywhere in the US.

I read with interest in Dec FMCA magazine the story of "Roadside Rescue" by John Steciw, F228130 (pg 17) as it involved tire failures. First I am glad to hear that John was able to resolve his problems but I believe there is a lesson to be learned in this story that may help others avoid similar problems, if appropriate preventive actions are taken. Now it is important to understand that my observation is based on some assumptions as I do not know exactly what the failed tires look like but I am willing to believe that the tire condition of "blowout" that John mentions is more likely a Run Low Flex failure. Tires simply do not fail for no identifiable reason and calender age, by itself, is not a fact based reason. The vast majority of "blow-outs" are the result of a combination of overload and under-inflation. When one tire in a dual application fails catastrophically as John described, it means its companion was operated for some unknown speed and distance at 100% overload. There are a number of well documented cases where one tire fails due to loss of air due to damage or puncture or other air leak. The failed tire is replaced but for a variety of reasons its mate is not replaced so the 2nd failure occurs a few miles or days later. Nothing against the service tech and his opinion but I have never met a service tech that have ever received the months of detailed training needed to allow them to make a proper and accurate analysis of a tire failure. That skill simply is not in their job description. The best action RV owners can take is to install TPMS so that they first get a warning as soon as one tire looses air which hopefully will allow them to stop before they unintentionally damage the mate beyond repair.

Couple of related items. When you buy new tires, either on a new coach or directly from a tire dealer. You need to complete a tire registration form and mail it off. If you don't do this you may not get notified if there is a recall on your tires. Do you have defective tires? How would you know your tires should be recalled?If you have a failure you should file a complaint with NHTSA (not NTSB who do trains & planes)). This agency of US DOT is the one responsible for investigating vehicle component failures and if the part is found defective then they can force the company to do a recall. BUT there will never be a reacll if there is no investigation and no investigation if no complaints are filed. When to file a complaint with NHTSASome general info on Safety Recalls

Something to clarify is that for some companies the warranty clock starts ticking on the date the tires are applied. If you don't have the sales receipt then the warranty date reverts to tire MFG date as molded on tire sidewall. This policy may not be universal so you need to confirm from your tire dealer or the tire company warranty booklet you should get. It does make keeping that sales receipt (with the individual tire DOT serial on it) a very important document.

What Brett said.

One thing to consider when selecting a tire brand is the question of support service and product availability especially if you don't carry a spare.

General comment on the real cause of a "Blowout". It's not because the building where the tire was made was painted green rather than blue. It is true that almost all the failures seen on towable RVs with tires not made in USA. But it is also true that almost all tires applied to towables are not made in the USA. Go up to post #9 and look at my blog post on Blowout Real Life Experience. After reviewing the facts could someone explain how that blowout was the result of the tire being made in a tire plant painted green. If you think about it maybe the reason for so many tire failures is the drivers have too much testoserone. It cretainly couldn't be that most RV drivers are male Now I made this not to start a discussion about who should drive just to point out that correlation does not mean causation. RE 75 mph max. I have seen some information in tire industry literature about an increase in failures of over the road trucks but when investigated it seems that spending time in states with speed limits of 70 to 80 is a significant contributor to the trend. Over-The-Road truck tires are basically the same as 22.5 RV tires in material and construction, so I feel the trends in RV and OTR truck tire failures to reasonably be similar. Fred an observation. You discovered a tire had low air but I have to wonder how many miles you drove, at what speed & load doing how much internal structural damage. Putting air back in a tire after you have driven on it when underinflated doesn't "fix it" any more than putting the burnt hot dog from the BBQ back in the fridge "fix it". You can ask those that have attended my seminars about potato salad. When properly instaled I have seen zero evidence against running a TPMS and many testimonials from people that have avoided trie failures and the associated RV damage, myself included ! Best TPMS Just as there is no "Best Pizza" or "Best RV" there is no single TPMS that "Best" for everyone. I have a blog post just on that topic

I agree with what Brett said. If you are changing any tires that involve a pair in dual position you need to measure the circumference of a fully inflated tire when it is off the vehicle. The OC of the two tires need to match within +/- 3/4" This holds for all duals in RV applications. I have a blog post with pictures when I did a rotation on my RV.

As we get to the season where part timers start planning on parking their RVs for a few months and for Full Timers to head South and many will be "hiding out" in the warmer states. Either way there are some items I would suggest be done to your tires before parking. 1. Give them a good look over, checking for bulges, cuts or locations of extra wear on the tread. If you find something out of the ordinary you might want it looked at sooner rather than 6 months from now. 2. Give them a good wash with the same soap & water you would use on the side of your coach. I would suggest you also use of wash cloths similar to what you would use on the painted side of the coach and not some stiff bristle brush. 3. Cover your tires to protect them from exposure to direct Sunlight. Also don't park them near any electric motors. 4. Don't park on wet surface such as sand or dirt. A piece of 2x8 will work under each tire, jsut be sure to support the entire footprint. 5. I suggest you inflate the tires to the pressure molded on the tire sidewall. This will help reduce the potential for "flatspotting" which creates a rough ride from the tire being out of round. I do have a blog post on Winterizing if you want more information.

I think the most likely reason for specing the minimum inflation is the belief that customers are more likely to complain about harsh ride even when they are getting better tire life and better MPG. They can feel ride immediately but not see the benefits of +10% psi at once. I am also in favor of +10% so you don't find yourself chasing your tail when it gets cooler and now you find yourself 1 or 2 psi low. - Assuming you have an accurate gauge. With +10% it would be easier to discover you are low a couple psi and simply wait till the next fuel stop where there should be high pressure air available. For those that don't know how to inflate a warm tire here are the steps. 1. Measure the pressure when the tire is at ambient (not warm from driving or being in Sunlight) 2. Note the number of psi you want to add to each tire to get to your goal inflation 3. When you get to a fuel stop measure the warm pressure 4. Add the number of psi from #2 to the warm pressure in #3 and add air till you get to at least this new warm pressure goal. Don't get hyper about being 1 or 2 psi off. Remember if you have a 10% cushion you are good to go as long as you are within a few psi of your goal

Since you will use the Accutire gauge to confirm the reading of your regular day gauge there are many choices: Campbell Hausfeld has been around in tire supply scene for a while There are digital inflators I have looked at but the quality may be a little lacking I am sure if you spend a little time you will find what you are looking for.

I am aware of some claims of increased tire failure rates but this considers with highway speed limit increases from 55/65 to 75/80 range while tires in RV application have been for years and still are to my knowledge limited to a 75 mph MAX and this does not mean 75 all the time or 74 most of the time with occasional runs to 80. Can anyone here honestly claim that RV owners haven't increased their driving speed over the past few years? I also have to wonder what the real reason for the tire failure is. In the initial report, mention is made of changes in the sidewall rubber but then claimed this change resulted in lower adhesion to body or belt cords This isn't supported by the fact that the rubber used in the sidewall is very different formulation than the rubber that needs to adhere to steel. It is just too bad that this fact doesn't seem to support the theory of a conspiratorial rubber change around the world because of some theoretical but not identified change in EPA rules. Were the failures Run Low Flex failures of the tire sidewall or belt separations. These two conditions have completely different causes and leave significantly different physical evidence but I see no statement of who did the forensic failed tire inspections or what training that engineer had. If you run into a tire dealer or repair shop owner that makes statements like this you might ask when and where he got his degree in Chemical Engineering? RE the "Big Bad Government" ordering rubber compound changes, I would run, not walk, away from the conspiracy theorists. Here is a post on 10 myths about the shuttle crash and includes facts not rumor on the foam adhesive. Turns out the foam adhesive that failed wasn't changed. Darn to pesky facts. Source at bottom. I can say with 100% certainty that in my 40 years as a tire design and quality engineer I never heard of a single instance of any Government agency or official asking or ordering a change in any specific tire specification material. I am aware that some cancer causing chemicals such a Benzine (used in cleaning some surfaces) and other materials used in the construction of tire plant buildings such as Asbestos were regulated but this is not the same as having a rubber compound changed. Also these changes were done back in the 70's not in 2003 and certainly not done in Countries outside the USA as the rules implemented in an effort to clean up the environment in the USA do not apply in the dozens of countries where tires are built. For those interested in facts you can review a few posts on the topic of tire failure: Why do so many RV tires seem to be failing? 22.5 tire inspection. Confusing answer from dealer How to avoid tire failure and RV damage. And I had a tire failure! Quick post on "BLOWOUTS "Blowout" A Real Life Experience "During the lift-off of STS-107 on January 16, 2003, a piece of foam insulation detached from one of the tank's bipod ramps and struck the leading edge of Space Shuttle Columbia's wing at a few hundred miles per hour. The impact is believed to have damaged one comparatively large reinforced carbon-carbon panel on the leading edge of the left wing, believed to be about the size of a basketball which then allowed super-heated gas to enter the wing superstructure several days later during re-entry. This resulted in the destruction of Columbia and the loss of its crew. The report determined that the external fuel tank, ET-93, "had been constructed with BX-250", a closeout foam whose blowing agent was CFC-11 and not the newer HCFC 141b." Source Columbia Accident Investigation Board Report, Volume 2, Appendix D, Section 11.3 and figure 11-1, p222, Columbia Accident Investigation Board,