2008 Holiday Rambler Neptune - No Electrical To Dash - Fully Charged Battery

[Guest]

Hello all let me start by saying I am new to RV's and this is my first one and my first problem. Hoping to find some kind soul to give some helpful guidance.  So my issue is I went to start my coach and as I turned over the key nothing happened at all. No dash lights, No head lights, No clicking, No power to leveling either.

However, the batteries are strong they were being charged by shore power at my storage lot. I disconnected from shore power and tested the batteries and all was good. I checked breakers and fuses (anything that had to do with dash or Ignition) and no blown fuses or tripped breakers. Everything in the house part works just nothing to do with the dash. Also, the generator fires up just fine so again batteries appear to be fine.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

[desertdeals69]

How did you test the batteries.  You need to use a load meter.  Check all the wire connections on the battery cables.  Trace electricity from the start batteries to the electric box.  There has to be an open circuit somewhere if the batteries test good.  

[rhinderber]

Do you have a switch that will change to house batteries for starting? I don't want to sound snide but you know there are 2 sets of batteries. I am also on our first RV these motor homes are set up in ways I was not familiar with.  is there power to the red feed to the fuse panel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, desertdeals69 said:

How did you test the batteries.  You need to use a load meter.  Check all the wire connections on the battery cables.  Trace electricity from the start batteries to the electric box.  There has to be an open circuit somewhere if the batteries test good.  

I haven't tried this yet but I will give it a go in the morning. The batteries started the generator without a problem and were able to move the slide outs in and they are new batteries (3 Months old). 

[dickandlois]

6 hours ago, mjlisenby said:

Hello all let me start by saying I am new to RV's and this is my first one and my first problem. Hoping to find some kind soul to give some helpful guidance.  So my issue is I went to start my coach and as I turned over the key nothing happened at all. No dash lights, No head lights, No clicking, No power to leveling either. However, the batteries are strong they were being charged by shore power at my storage lot. I disconnected from shore power and tested the batteries and all was good. I checked breakers and fuses (anything that had to do with dash or Ignition) and no blown fuses or tripped breakers. Everything in the house part works just nothing to do with the dash. Also, the generator fires up just fine so again batteries appear to be fine. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

Welcome to the FMCA Forum !

Start safety interlocks that prevent the engine from starting are - slides need to be in - jacks need to be retracted - transmission needs to be in neutral.

Link to the owners manual -  http://www.holidayrambler.com/resources/media/manuals/2008_Neptune.pdf

The Attached file is a copy of the owners manual.

 Owners Manual. Pages 167 to 170 cover the fuse panels. Page 184 Pictures a No Engine Start Check list.

Do you have a Multimeeter ?

Note the manual is 242 pages long. Also the information you offered allowed me to find this information. Good information helps. Thanks

Rich.

2008_Neptune_Owners_Manual.pdf

[hermanmullins]

Just to add another interlock to Rich's thought are the bay doors. If a bay door under a slide is open nothing will start. Not sure on your coach. If you have a door open or have opened one before you tried to start the coach try going around and opening and closing them again. Might not help but it can't hurt to try.

Herman 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, rhinderber said:

Do you have a switch that will change to house batteries for starting? I don't want to sound snide but you know there are 2 sets of batteries. I am also on our first RV these motor homes are set up in ways I was not familiar with.  is there power to the red feed to the fuse panel.

 

 

I tried the battery boost switch and nothing, unfortunately. 

[RonaldNC]

I have the Monaco equivalent of your coach.  Make sure that you have the "salesman switch" on left side of the entry door panel turned on.  It's the orange one.  Also, make sure that you are in neutral.  These are mistake that I make every so often.

If you need wiring diagrams, manuals, etc... let me know.  We can exchange phone numbers if that helps.

Ron

[Guest]

2 hours ago, hermanmullins said:

Just to add another interlock to Rich's thought are the bay doors. If a bay door under a slide is open nothing will start. Not sure on your coach. If you have a door open or have opened one before you tried to start the coach try going around and opening and closing them again. Might not help but it can't hurt to try.

Herman 

Unfortunately, because the key won't turn the engine over I can't retract the jacks. The slides were in I was able to bring those in using the batteries. The engine is in neutral but I can't shift it at all as there is no panel electric. Bay doors were all shut. Thanks for the ideas I appreciate the brainstorming. 

[RonaldNC]

33 minutes ago, mjlisenby said:

Unfortunately, because the key won't turn the engine over I can't retract the jacks. The slides were in I was able to bring those in using the batteries. The engine is in neutral but I can't shift it at all as there is no panel electric. Bay doors were all shut. Thanks for the ideas I appreciate the brainstorming. 

You can start the engine with the jacks down and the slides out... do it all the time.  Based on what you've written, I'm feeling it's the salesman switch or the solenoid that it controls in the battery compartment.  What you describe is what I experience in mine when that is the problem.

 

Ron

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, RonaldNC said:

I have the Monaco equivalent of your coach.  Make sure that you have the "salesman switch" on left side of the entry door panel turned on.  It's the orange one.  Also, make sure that you are in neutral.  These are mistake that I make every so often.

If you need wiring diagrams, manuals, etc... let me know.  We can exchange phone numbers if that helps.

Ron

Ron Im not sure I have a salesman switch that your refering to are you referring too the battery cut off switch? 

[RonaldNC]

31 minutes ago, mjlisenby said:

Ron Im not sure I have a salesman switch that your refering to are you referring too the battery cut off switch? 

Yes, that's the one.  It turns off all the power, except refrigerator and a couple of other things.  Mine won't start without that turned on.  You should hear some clicking of the relays in the front left area of the coach when you turn on or off.  You can tell if it's on when the internal lights work.  If it fails, then it's likely the solenoid in the battery compartment... which has gone bad on me twice since I've owned my coach.

Again, if we need to get on the phone to discuss... I'm happy to.

Ron

[hermanmullins]

My Monaco has two solenoids in the front electrical panel. One for is for the starter and one for dash instruments. Is would be unusual for both to go out at the same time.  I go with the salesman switch.

Herman 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, RonaldNC said:

Yes, that's the one.  It turns off all the power, except refrigerator and a couple of other things.  Mine won't start without that turned on.  You should hear some clicking of the relays in the front left area of the coach when you turn on or off.  You can tell if it's on when the internal lights work.  If it fails, then it's likely the solenoid in the battery compartment... which has gone bad on me twice since I've owned my coach.

Again, if we need to get on the phone to discuss... I'm happy to.

Ron

Ron thank you I tried that and the battery cut off switch seems to work ok. I am plugged into shore power and when I hit that switch the lights and power in the coach all go out. Still nothing to the dash unfortunately. My number is 404-281-8005 would welcome any exchange of ideas. Im about to head back up to the RV now and get back to trouble shooting. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, hermanmullins said:

My Monaco has two solenoids in the front electrical panel. One for is for the starter and one for dash instruments. Is would be unusual for both to go out at the same time.  I go with the salesman switch.

Herman 

Any thoughts on how to by pass the soleniods to test them? 

[wolfe10]

To bypass a solenoid merely remove the large-gauge wires from one large lug and ADD them to the other large lug. You could use a jumper, but would have to be extremely careful to not touch any metal (ground).  Moving the wires is a lot safer.  And put a bread tie, paint mark or record wire numbers of those you move so you can return them to their original position to disconnect your bypass.

And, likely some confusion here.  The CHASSIS battery, not house battery powers the dash and starter.  So the salesman switch that turns off 12 VDC to interior lights, etc is not involved-- at least on any motorhome I have worked on.

[hermanmullins]

Turn your key off. Check both sides of each solenoid. One side should have power and one side dead. Then do the test again  with the key on and you should have power to both sides. Also with the key on, check for power to the small terminals. If only one with the key on you should have power.  If two, one is power and one is ground. 

If on the first test you do not have power to either side then you either have the salesman switch off or it is bad.

If you do have power to one side in test two but not to both then the solenoid is either bad or you have a key switch problem. 

You can jump accross the solenoid but be very careful.

Herman 

 

[Guest]

Thank you all for your help. Im headed back up to my storage unit to go try some of your ideas. I will let you all know what I come up with. Thank you all for your help.

[five]

Sounds like the chassis battery cut off switch is off.

Another thing to remember, these beasts are ALL different.  I can bring in the two small curb side slides with the battery only, but the coach must be running to move the full wall slide.  The position of the basement doors, jacks and slides all have nothing to do with starting, the coach will start with any of them in any position..

[RonaldNC]

7 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

To bypass a solenoid merely remove the large-gauge wires from one large lug and ADD them to the other large lug. You could use a jumper, but would have to be extremely careful to not touch any metal (ground).  Moving the wires is a lot safer.  And put a bread tie, paint mark or record wire numbers of those you move so you can return them to their original position to disconnect your bypass.

And, likely some confusion here.  The CHASSIS battery, not house battery powers the dash and starter.  So the salesman switch that turns off 12 VDC to interior lights, etc is not involved-- at least on any motorhome I have worked on.

Brett,

You are almost always right... but not in this case. LOL!  My model (the Monaco version of the OP's) won't start with the battery cut-off switch (salesman switch) off.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I've confirmed it many times... when I forget to turn it on.

I've spoken to the OP (Mike) on the phone and his problem is a bit bewildering.  Everything in the coach works and he can start his generator just fine.  There is just no power to the chassis/motor/transmission.  He's checked the batteries, battery switches, high-powered breakers, solenoid, etc.  Everything thing worked fine when he parked it in his storage garage.  He's been plugged in the whole time.  He hadn't worked on it while in storage.  Truly a mystery!

Is there some other potential point of failure that is possible between the battery and the chassis?  We're stumped.  I told him to call Monaco technical support on Monday, as they have been pretty useful to me in figuring out problems.

Ron

[wolfe10]

Very strange that the ignition/start circuit would be through the HOUSE battery?? Oh well.

But I would check both  the IGNITION SWITCH and IGNITION SOLENOID.

The key is just used to close the ignition solenoid.  So, locate the ignition solenoid.  Two large lugs: one hot all the time (connected to chassis battery) the other large lug only hot when the solenoid is activated.

There will also be either one or two small terminals.  If only one, it gets its 12 VDC positive signal from the ignition switch to close the contacts in the solenoid.  Ground is through the metal body of the solenoid to good metal of the coach.  If a second small terminal the second one is ground.

Assuming one or the other may be at fault:

Verify 12 VDC on the small positive terminal of the ignition solenoid when and only when the key is on.  If not, remove the wire from the ignition switch at the small terminal. Use a small jumper wire (will only carry a few amps) from the always hot large lug to the positive terminal. 

Let us  know what you find.

And remember, there ARE other "safety lock-outs" that could be at play here, but this is a good place to start. If providing positive to the small terminal of the ignition solenoid gets you going, you need to check the ignition switch, the fuse supplying it and any safety lock-outs.

[RonaldNC]

44 minutes ago, wolfe10 said:

Very strange that the ignition/start circuit would be through the HOUSE battery?? Oh well.

But I would check both  the IGNITION SWITCH and IGNITION SOLENOID.

The key is just used to close the ignition solenoid.  So, locate the ignition solenoid.  Two large lugs: one hot all the time (connected to chassis battery) the other large lug only hot when the solenoid is activated.

There will also be either one or two small terminals.  If only one, it gets its 12 VDC positive signal from the ignition switch to close the contacts in the solenoid.  Ground is through the metal body of the solenoid to good metal of the coach.  If a second small terminal the second one is ground.

Assuming one or the other may be at fault:

Verify 12 VDC on the small positive terminal of the ignition solenoid when and only when the key is on.  If not, remove the wire from the ignition switch at the small terminal. Use a small jumper wire (will only carry a few amps) from the always hot large lug to the positive terminal. 

Let us  know what you find.

And remember, there ARE other "safety lock-outs" that could be at play here, but this is a good place to start. If providing positive to the small terminal of the ignition solenoid gets you going, you need to check the ignition switch, the fuse supplying it and any safety lock-outs.

Thanks Brett!

Interestingly, he has no power to the Allison shift selector.  According to his manual's trouble shooting diagram, that may mean that a 10 amp "engine fuse" in his rear electric distribution box may be blown.

Ron

[hermanmullins]

Ron,

Sorry but I have to agree with Brett. I have a Monaco and there and there are three battery switches in the coach. There are two in the battery compartment. They are called Battery Disconnect Switched. One for the house batteries and one for the Chassis batteries.  The third switch is the battery cut off switch  (aka "Salesman Switch "). The S/S cuts the power to the items that can be left on between showings. Lightsand soforth. It has no effect on the chassis batteries. The OP needs to test the power to the starter solenoid and instruments solenoid.  If there is power to one side of each then there is an issue from the ignition switch. It is very unlikely that both solenoids would go bad at the same time.

He said he was going to the coach to trouble shoot. Lets let him tell us what he finds. 

[RonaldNC]

42 minutes ago, hermanmullins said:

Ron,

Sorry but I have to agree with Brett. I have a Monaco and there and there are three battery switches in the coach. There are two in the battery compartment. They are called Battery Disconnect Switched. One for the house batteries and one for the Chassis batteries.  The third switch is the battery cut off switch  (aka "Salesman Switch "). The S/S cuts the power to the items that can be left on between showings. Lightsand soforth. It has no effect on the chassis batteries. The OP needs to test the power to the starter solenoid and instruments solenoid.  If there is power to one side of each then there is an issue from the ignition switch. It is very unlikely that both solenoids would go bad at the same time.

He said he was going to the coach to trouble shoot. Lets let him tell us what he finds. 

Herman,

I hear you.... however, I just tested my coach and it won't start with the salesman switch off.  I turn it off... won't start... turn it on... it starts.  Not all Monaco models are alike.  I think it might be powering/un-powering some other solenoid???  Mike and I have even found some differences between our supposedly identical coaches.  I have two high powered breakers in my battery compartment... he has one.  I don't always understand why there are differences... but "it is, what it is"!

Thanks for all the help!

Ron

[wildebill308]

When you tried the Battery Boost switch, did you hold it as it is a momentary switch. You have to hold it to make contact and it might take a little while. 

What is the voltage on the start batteries? Have you checked all the connections and ground? Actually taken the connection apart and cleaned them? 

Bill