GFCI Outlet No Power

[wolfe10]

1 hour ago, bburns8 said:

I have the standalone charger on the chassis batteries right now.  If the chassis batteries get a full charge higher than12.8 VDC would I be able to drive it 50 miles?  If yes, would I be able to drive it 50 miles without the standalone charger on? 

We do not have enough information to be able to answer that. 

How many amp-hrs are your chassis batteries? How old/degraded are they?

How much power does it take to power your coach's engine/transmission electronics and other electric systems.

Remember, a reading of 12.8 VDC when the charger is on is NOT the same as 12.8 VDC with the batteries at rest.  With charger on, you will need readings close to 14 VDC to show full charge.  You really need more than a 10 amp charger to get this done.  Can't you borrow a bigger charger?

Another option to more quickly charge the chassis is to use your toad's alternator-- use jumper cables from toad battery to coach chassis batteries and put toad engine at 1500- 2000 RPM for a half hour or so.

DO YOU HAVE NO ONE NEAR YOU THAT HAS KNOWLEDGE OF MOTORHOME 12 VDC SYSTEM.  Given the questions being asked, you really need someone with experience helping you.

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

We do not have enough information to be able to answer that. 

How many amp-hrs are your chassis batteries? How old/degraded are they?

How much power does it take to power your coach's engine/transmission electronics and other electric systems.

Remember, a reading of 12.8 VDC when the charger is on is NOT the same as 12.8 VDC with the batteries at rest.  With charger on, you will need readings close to 14 VDC to show full charge.  You really need more than a 10 amp charger to get this done.  Can't you borrow a bigger charger?

Another option to more quickly charge the chassis is to use your toad's alternator-- use jumper cables from toad battery to coach chassis batteries and put toad engine at 1500- 2000 RPM for a half hour or so.

DO YOU HAVE NO ONE NEAR YOU THAT HAS KNOWLEDGE OF MOTORHOME 12 VDC SYSTEM.  Given the questions being asked, you really need someone with experience helping you.

Thanks Wolfe10 for all your help and expertise.  I appreciate your help.  Unfortunately, there is no one knowledgeable of a motorhome 12 VDC system near me.  I stopped an RV repair person yesterday here at the park and he took a look and didn't know.  I found a tow company last week that can tow it front wheel lift.  I will probably have it towed Monday.

[wolfe10]

Towing is a lot tougher on the motorhome than driving.

Where are you located and what are you driving-- got to be someone familiar with your 12 VDC system.

May even be someone on the Forum near you.

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

Towing is a lot tougher on the motorhome than driving.

Where are you located and what are you driving-- got to be someone familiar with your 12 VDC system.

May even be someone on the Forum near you.

We are in Raleigh, NC at the state fair grounds rv park.  We are here for medical.  I've called the RV shops, mobile units and they don't work on the 12 VDC.  The two places I found was Buddy Gregg in Knoxville, TN but they are 5 hours away and Cummins in Kenly, NC that is 50 miles away.  We have 330 CAT but Cummins in Kenly said they still could work on it.  Cummins has a mobile unit but will not send it this far out.  We have to go to them.

2001 Fleetwood Discovery 37U 330 CAT

[wolfe10]

Have you contacted nearby RV parks for recommendations for mobile RV repair?

 

Again, nothing magical about the alternator, battery isolator and wiring.

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

Have you contacted nearby RV parks for recommendations for mobile RV repair?

 

Again, nothing magical about the alternator, battery isolator and wiring.

Yes.  I called but they don't do it anymore.

[richard5933]

Not sure I understand what's going on here. The chassis batteries discharge at rest. The house batteries discharge at rest. The chassis batteries are not charging when the engine is running. The inverter/charger can't charge the house batteries. Something simple is gumming up the works and should be discoverable by following a simple yes/no testing procedure.

Two approaches - battery & inverter/charger. My hunch is that one of these is causing all the problems. My suggestion is to follow one path at a time. Your choice which to do first. If you can easily get the batteries to a place that can properly test them, that would be my first choice. If you have someone that can help you properly test the inverter/charger, then that could be first.

Batteries:

Take your batteries to a battery retailer and have them tested. There are dozens of truck repair centers in your area that can test your batteries. Probably could also get them tested at most decent auto supply houses. Napa would be my first choice if you have to choose blindly. My guess is that one or more of your batteries has crapped out and is causing the problem with them not taking a charge. One bad cell on one battery can mess up the whole battery bank.

Same for your house batteries. They should hold a charge when not connected to anything. Have them tested.

Until you get ALL the batteries tested or are certain they are good you really can't move forward. If a battery is bad, it's best to replace all the batteries on that battery bank (If one chassis battery is bad, replace both chassis batteries. Same for the house batteries.)

IF the batteries all test good, then the next item to test would be the alternator since the chassis batteries are not charging with the engine running. It can be tested at the same truck repair places that tested the batteries.

Inverter/Charger:

If I remember, this thread started with a few 120v outlets that didn't work. If the batteries & alternator test good, then you've got something drawing down your batteries and/or not allowing them to charge. My first suspect would be the inverter/charger. A bad inverter/charger would certainly cause that. It could also be constantly discharging your house batteries trying to get the outlets powered, but in its malfunctioning state just can't do it.

I'd also want to verify that the house and chassis batteries are not connected together when they shouldn't be. With the battery chargers off (all of them) if you disconnect the chassis batteries none of the chassis systems should be functioning and if you disconnect the house batteries none of the house systems should be functioning. If you disconnect one battery bank and items normally powered by that battery bank are still functioning then you have a cross connection. If your house and chassis batteries are connected together at all times, any problem with one side is going to draw down the other.

[wolfe10]

Good ideas, Richard.

Couple of points:

Batteries can ONLY be tested when fully charged.

Yes, inverter/charger could be bad, but if no 120 VAC to it, same symptoms. No 120 VAC to it would certainly explain why no battery charging OR 120 VAC to some of the outlets (if inverter turned off).

Again, they need someone who knows what a voltmeter is and has 30 minutes to test things.

[richard5933]

One more thought...

Has anyone checked to be sure that the water level in all the batteries is at the proper level? And that the connections to the batteries are not corroded and are properly tightened?

Didn't want to miss the easy stuff.

[manholt]

For what it's worth.  I'm thinking bad cell/cells!  In 2016, I had same symptoms...bad cell in a house battery and 2 in a chassis battery.  Had NAPA change out the 8 acid batteries for AGM and chassis batteries (2) to AGM !  Not cheap, but no problems since!

[kaypsmith]

For what it is worth, I will be in Pigeon Forge Tenn., Sept. 15 through 22, if no help by then, I will drive to Raleigh to try to find your problem. I will PM you with e-mail and telephone number, I sincerely hope that your problem has been resolved before then but I would be glad to help if not resolved by then. On the note of driving 50 miles, since yours is diesel, the ECM and gauges and turn signals will be the only thing requiring 12 volts from the chassis batteries, as long as the excursion can take place in full daylight. I was on the way to Florida several years ago, 150 miles into the trip, the alternator went out. I stopped at the first Walmart, bought a 20 amp charger and a 25 foot extension cord. I ran the extension cord out the nearest window to the battery compartment, placed the charger in the area, clipped + to +, and - to -, wire tied the clamps to the battery cables in such a manner that they could not be removed unless cut. I then plugged the extension cord into a working outlet inside the coach, with generator running, drove the coach 225 miles to my destination, making sure that no excess 12 volts was needed. Will do again if ever needed.

[f442485]

wolfe10, your wrong about a fully charged battery is the only way to be tested. A battery that is low will always test defective, but with a refracto meter,or a hydrometer(witch is not a very accurate tool), can tell you what the state of charge is in each cell. If they are AGM, Gell or lithium batteries you can use a DVOM to check the state of charge. Load testing a fully charged battery after charging MUST be tested twice. The first test is to remove a surface charge, the second is to test weather the battery can hold a charge.

[manholt]

I had to go back to page one and re read, what caused this.  "You was using a 120v outside plug for a buffer and then turned on the microwave!  That's when it all stopped working!" 

I'm not the electrician on this Forum!  Every one else who has been on this Post is. 

[Chrisk22]

agreed

[richard5933]

Overload on a circuit can cause a few problems...

Circuit breaker tripped? Circuit breaker failed? GFCI failed? Inverter/charger failed? Am I missing something?

[wolfe10]

But, the problem is not just the 120 VAC/inverter-charger issue.

The alternator does not charge either battery bank either.

Bottom line-- they need someone with their "driver's license" on a digital voltmeter and a basic working knowledge of the electrical system on a DP.

[manholt]

Yeah, without the coach in hand, not much else we can do Brett.

Crisk22.  What are you agreeing to???

[bburns8]

Update
One of the security guards at the park knew an RV electrician and called him.  He came out today.  Our inverter is burnt.  He bypassed the inverter, and we are on house batteries, and the fridge is back on AC.  Our GFI outlet is working again.  The electrician said the same thing that Wolfe10 and others had said this post that to drive the MH with the generator on and the external battery charger on the house batteries.  

I started the engine, started the generator and turned external battery charger on.  I let the engine run for more than 30 minutes.  The voltage on the chassis battery is slowly dropping volts (12.65, 12.64,12.60 volts).  The volt indicator on the driver's dash is staying in the NORMAL position.  I called the electrician back and he said this is normal and we can drive it.

What are your thoughts?  Do I need another external charger on the chassis batteries to drive it?

[wolfe10]

Sorry, BAD ADVICE. Anyone who says you are good to go with 12.60 and dropping voltage (with generator running AND and external battery charger on) on the CHASSIS BATTERY is scary.  How long until it drops enough that the engine and transmission computers put you in time out?

Again, you have at least TWO separate issues:

The inverter/charger issue AND  alternator/battery isolator issues.

Which battery bank (house or chassis) did you put the external charger on?  How many amps was it? 

With an external charger, you should be see in the high 13's to low 14's with the external charger ON.

[rsbilledwards]

I have seen this circus before and it all revolved around one component 7 times out of 10 in the last 8 years. Turns out it was the Isolator. When it fails it can manifest itself in numerous ways...all of the above and can takeout the alternator. If you have never changed it do so. If it looks original, dirty scummy old just be proactive and get rid of the thing. New ones are cheap, just be sure it is sized to the amp rating of the alternator or larger.... Just ask me how I know!  First question is the alternator putting out?

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

Sorry, BAD ADVICE. Anyone who says you are good to go with 12.60 and dropping voltage (with generator running AND and external battery charger on) on the CHASSIS BATTERY is scary.  How long until it drops enough that the engine and transmission computers put you in time out?

Again, you have at least TWO separate issues:

The inverter/charger issue AND  alternator/battery isolator issues.

Which battery bank (house or chassis) did you put the external charger on?  How many amps was it? 

With an external charger, you should be see in the high 13's to low 14's with the external charger ON.

External charger (10 amps) is on the house batteries.  I did not check the voltage on the house batteries with the external charger on.

No external charger on the chassis batteries.  Between 10-15 minutes between voltage drops on the chassis batteries.

[bburns8]

1 hour ago, rsbilledwards said:

I have seen this circus before and it all revolved around one component 7 times out of 10 in the last 8 years. Turns out it was the Isolator. When it fails it can manifest itself in numerous ways...all of the above and can takeout the alternator. If you have never changed it do so. If it looks original, dirty scummy old just be proactive and get rid of the thing. New ones are cheap, just be sure it is sized to the amp rating of the alternator or larger.... Just ask me how I know!  First question is the alternator putting out?

Yes, alternator is putting out voltage.

Where is the isolator located?

[richard5933]

IF the isolator or solenoid (whichever is in use here) is bad, then the problem with the inverter could easily have killed other components or even batteries. The isolator is a device which allows the chassis alternator to charge the house batteries while the main engine is running. It could be near the house batteries. Hopefully someone else knows more specifically.

The house batteries are not what's going to take you to the shop. The chassis batteries are the ones you need to worry about when driving. The house batteries may help you stay comfortable, but they won't get you where you want to go.

If your chassis alternator is working, then your chassis batteries should not be dropping voltage with the engine running. When you said that the voltage is dropping did you mean with the engine running or off?

Whatever you do to get to the shop, please be sure to factor in the upcoming storm. You certainly don't want to be on the road with questionable batteries with a storm closing in on you. Stay safe and dry.

[bburns8]

What do I do to get the MH drivable?   We are in the path of hurricane Florence.  I am very low on propane and gasoline.  Power outages are expected when the hurricane hits.

[bburns8]

Can I drive the MH if I put an external battery charger on the chassis batteries?