2002 cat 3126 Journey DL will not start

[TTRV]

VIN=4UZAAHAK42CJ83609    Chassis J83609  engine CKM23163. Engine cranks and cranks but will not fire up.   Dash idiot lights normal.  However I do not see the yellow check engine light on or flashing.  Also, I cannot read out the Diagnostic codes via the cruise control steps.  Oil/lube and filters change in Oct-2018.   Ran fine then.    Read a post I should at least see the tach needle move when cranking --  It does not move a bit.   Also , the high beam blue light will not light?  last ran to storage in Oct.  Every 3 weeks I run the generator to charge the batteries.

Apparently there is an inline fuse for the engine and transmission computer power located somewhere in the battery box.  With a possible 20Amp Fuse?  I plan to check this tomorrow.

Any suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated. A rookie.

[kaypsmith]

Possibly a fuse to the ECM, if no power there it will never crank and to my knowledge that is the only electronic possibility. I've had that to happen to me on my Detroit engine. Other than that on a diesel, there is fuel or the lack thereof either by stopped up filters, or a lift pump not pumping.

[dickandlois]

TTRV,  Welcome to the FMCA Forum!

What part of the country is the coach parked in ?

When the engine cranks, can you hear the fuel lift pump running?  The Cat Electric Fuel Pump runs constantly when the key is on to provide constant fuel flow and pressure for HEUI injection systems.

Rich.

[TTRV]

9 hours ago, kaypsmith said:

Possibly a fuse to the ECM, if no power there it will never crank and to my knowledge that is the only electronic possibility. I've had that to happen to me on my Detroit engine. Other than that on a diesel, there is fuel or the lack thereof either by stopped up filters, or a lift pump not pumping.

Going over there today and will try and locate fuse.  Thanks

[manholt]

Welcome!

Also try to start and listen for Lift pump..

[hermanmullins]

One way to check if the pump is working, since most of the time you can't hear it when you are in the drivers seat, is to turn on the key and go to the rear of the coach and set you remote start switch to rear. From there you can hear the pump by turning the coach on and off. (Note: be sure to return the switch to front when finished. Don't ask me how I know this.) 

Herman 

[dickandlois]

TTRV, Winnebago 2002 Journey DL Model - Do you have ?   WKP 32 T, 34 H, 36 C, 36 L, 32 TD, 34 HD, 36 GD, 36 LD, or 39 QD ?

Rich.

[manholt]

IMHO, I'm guessing it's a 36 LD! 

[wolfe10]

If you have the Caterpillar manual primer pump, pump it.

If hard to pump, no air in fuel system.

If easy, you have AIR in the system. Pump until hard.

Be sure to screw in the pump when you are finished.

[TTRV]

8 hours ago, DickandLois said:

TTRV, Winnebago 2002 Journey DL Model - Do you have ?   WKP 32 T, 34 H, 36 C, 36 L, 32 TD, 34 HD, 36 GD, 36 LD, or 39 QD ?

Rich.

This is a 36GD

8 hours ago, DickandLois said:

TTRV, Winnebago 2002 Journey DL Model - Do you have ?   WKP 32 T, 34 H, 36 C, 36 L, 32 TD, 34 HD, 36 GD, 36 LD, or 39 QD ?

Rich.

 

5 hours ago, manholt said:

IMHO, I'm guessing it's a 36 LD! 

It is a 36GD

[TTRV]

VIN=4UZAAHAK42CJ83609  36GD  Chassis J83609  engine CKM23163 

ECM 20amp Fuse was obvious and on top of the chassis batteries.  It was in good shape. removed fuse and checked continuity on fuse and connection to the EMC via volt meter.  Disconnected all chassis and house batteries checking voltage, 12.1 mol.   Reconnected and ran generator to recharge.  

Opened up dog box and not sure what sound to listen for regarding the pump. Kind of looked around all over for any chewed wires 🙂

I am pretty sure this engine does not have a manual primer. Should have taken a picture.  

I do not have a remote start that I am aware of?

This is a Journey 36GD.

I read a post that stated when I try to start the engine and the engine cranks then the tach needle should move,  it does not??

Still puzzled as to why i cannot display any diagnostic codes via the cruise control stick.  My records show I did this in aug-2018 and the return code was 55, no faults.

How I think I did this in Aug.   Now nothing flashes?  Where did my brain go.

Turn the ignition key switch to the On position/ Engine OFF.          I think I left the key on in August?   Tried both ways
Turn the cruise control ON/OFF switch to the OFF position.
Push the SET/COAST button and hold. Hold that position until the yellow lamp begins to flash.
The yellow lamp will flash in order to indicate a two digit flash code and 
the SET/RESUME switch may be released. 

One last thing,  The high beam indicator light did light today,  the other day it would not?  It is green not blue.

When the fuel  water separator filter was changed in Oct-2018 there was some foreign matter the RV man could not identify?  After this service I drove the RV about 15 miles to storage?  At the time the RV Man did not feel it was algae?

Thanks you'll

TomT

[dickandlois]

Tom T. This is the information I have found. That will be of the most help finding your issue. The Winnebago information does not offer any good chassis wiring info.

https://library.rvusa.com/brochure/02Journeybro.pdf

Engine is a Cat 330 HP/ 7.2 L----- Allison 6 speed transmission.

Chassis was built by Freightliner. With the last 6 Digits of the VIN number you should be able to get the chassis electrical wiring PDF Files. FCCC help in Gaffney S.C.

Once you have them you should be able to trace out starting, ECM and fuel pump circuits.

The one loose end is where the chassis fuse box is located. There appears to be one under the Refrigerator. There are Circuit breakers and relays under the entry steps.

Rich.

[jleamont]

TTRV, no engine light with the key on is a great observation!! You are missing either a power source or ground to the Engine Control Module. I see you tested one fuse, if it were me I’d go through every fuse box with anything chassis related and every fuse doing the same thing. Usually there are several fuses controlling the ECM. If all good pull the engine access open and locate the ECM, check those connections and start inspecting that harness and any grounds as it makes its way around the engine bay and splits off. Also see if there are any ECM relays, if so swap them with non critical ones like the horn, etc. If it starts afterwards you can always pick up a new relay later.

I’m betting you will find chewed wires or a bad relay at some point of your inspection. 

 

[TTRV]

2 hours ago, jleamont said:

TTRV, no engine light with the key on is a great observation!! You are missing either a power source or ground to the Engine Control Module. I see you tested one fuse, if it were me I’d go through every fuse box with anything chassis related and every fuse doing the same thing. Usually there are several fuses controlling the ECM. If all good pull the engine access open and locate the ECM, check those connections and start inspecting that harness and any grounds as it makes its way around the engine bay and splits off. Also see if there are any ECM relays, if so swap them with non critical ones like the horn, etc. If it starts afterwards you can always pick up a new relay later.

I’m betting you will find chewed wires or a bad relay at some point of your inspection. 

 

I miss stated , the yellow engine light briefly comes on then out when the key is turned.  also, toggling the odometer/tach mileage tripmeter returns nothing, may be all zeros or 1888888 tripmeter 8888.    

[jleamont]

Ok, any puff of smoke from the exhaust while cranking? Not sure of your technical background but one simple check I would do on those engines; while cranking (requires two people) place a screwdriver or long something metal, while someone is cranking the engine put it against your ear, you should hear a ticking sound (usually very pronounced) from each injector, this will tell you they are attempting to fire (high pressure oil system is functioning). This will eliminate one portion, after that it just needs fuel and of course the electronics for injector timing to start.

Given your situation that the light comes on then goes off, was this normal on your coach before? If not we’re back to ECM power or grounds. If you can obtain the schematic for your engine wiring from Freighliner and post it I can help point you in the right direction to troubleshoot it. See if they can send it in a PDF.

[TTRV]

Yes, under normal circumstance the check engine light will illuminate with key on then clear.   I will try the screwdriver and listen for the ticking and also try and get the wiring schematic from Freightliner and or maybe Caterpillar?     I have most or all the chassis wiring now but not the engine.  I tried today at CAT but I could not find a full schematic of the engine wiring.  I have a login to DTNA connect and it will pass me to caterpillar.

Another odd thing I noticed is I cannot reset the trip meter or get the odometer to switch between kw and miles.    It will not display the current mileage but has showed all zeros or 1888888 for mile and 8888 for the trip meter.

And continue looking and see how I can even get to the ECM.  It is buried on the left lower side with lots of cable in front of it.  

Appreciate the advice.  

[jleamont]

TTRV, any update?

[TTRV]

My RV man met me today and he ran diagnostics without any success.  Checking the wiring also.   He was able to read the transmission info but nothing on the ECM.  He then removed the ecm and our next step is for me to take it to Caterpillar tomorrow in Riverview, FL.   The tech at caterpillar indicated they can try and read the flash and make a determination if it is good or not.   I believe this to be the original  ECM since there is writing on the back 8-3-01.  My RV is a 2002.

So I would appreciate some advice on the following. 

Option 1 --  Where I store my RV there is a junker, 1999 monaco Freightliner.  I have checked it out today and it is a caterpillar engine, the same as mine but older 1999, mine is a 2002.   I am going to ask the tech tomorrow to confirm engine specifications since I have the VIN.  So I am thinking about removing this 1999 ECM if the specs checkout and trying it.  If it works why not?  I know the storage man will let me have it for a very reasonable price.  If this works then problem solved -- then "maybe"  have caterpillar flash the correct mileage and  check other settings at their site.

Option 2 - -  Buy CAT part,  or  aftermarket   or  re-manufactured used one?   Right now I don't know if anyone of these might carry a warranty.  

Caterpillar told me they will not program the ECM unless it is installed.  He said it had to do with emissions?  So buying  a new/used/aftermarket means I either have the RV towed 50 miles or pay for a CAT Tech to come to the RV in Storage.     This is upsetting.

Thanks you'll.  TomT

 

[manholt]

Your coach is a 2002, but I think you have a 2001 chassis.  CAT built the 3126 from 1997 to 2001, in 2002 CAT came out with a modified 3126B..

[jleamont]

If it is a 3126 engine I’d swap them over. The worse that could happen is it won’t start.

[TTRV]

1 hour ago, manholt said:

Your coach is a 2002, but I think you have a 2001 chassis.  CAT built the 3126 from 1997 to 2001, in 2002 CAT came out with a modified 3126B..

I think you are correct based on this info from the Freightliner Parts Pro.

3126E TRUCK ENGINE Engine Serial Number - CKM23163 (Build Date - 03/08/2001, Test Date - 03/08/2001, Ship Date - 07/08/2001)  Thanks

[manholt]

TTRV.  As Joe wrote, if the 99 ECM is not trash also, it should work!

[jleamont]

Usually the difference is in the programming, like maximum speed for cruise control vs pedal could be different, exhaust brake function could be programmed different. Nothing that once its up and running the dealer couldn't customize to your preferences. This is all assuming they both are 3126E's. 

When I worked at the dealership, I would keep a box of known good different modules, many times I would pull from the box to get something started in the parking lot and drive it into the building. If you have ever tried to push a motorhome you can understand why. Back in those years you could do that. Once the newer technology came along it wasn't so easy and eventually turned almost impossible as many differences came along and all of the modules were eventually coded as a group, once one "stranger" was introduced, nothing worked.

[hayesfamily]

19 hours ago, TTRV said:

I think you are correct based on this info from the Freightliner Parts Pro.

3126E TRUCK ENGINE Engine Serial Number - CKM23163 (Build Date - 03/08/2001, Test Date - 03/08/2001, Ship Date - 07/08/2001)  Thanks

Afternoon to ya ..

I have a friend that had a similar issue with is CaT motor from that year on a freightliner Chassis  He did find a solution and if I can get Fred on the phone tonight Ill relay what his solution was. Not sure if it will help but at this point information is information.  

[wildebill308]

Is that the long lost Keon Hayes'? Welcome back.

Bill