OLDMARINE Report post Posted April 9, 2019 I want to replace a modified Sinewave Inverter /charger with a Pure Sine wave Unit of same size , is this a plug + play , or do I have to make other Mods ? Please Help , Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaypsmith Report post Posted April 9, 2019 Should be no other modifications necessary other than making sure that everything goes back as found. Your electronic equipment will be glad to see the change, and now you wont need to be as pickey when choosing newer ones. Good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desertdeals69 Report post Posted April 9, 2019 The control panel will be different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richard5933 Report post Posted April 9, 2019 Take lots of photos before removing the old inverter/charger, and carefully mark all the wires so you know where they were connected on the old unit. Seems like we get a few "where does this wire go" threads every season, so it doesn't hurt to take the time to make notes first. If the new inverter/charger is the same capacity as the old one, then nothing should need to be changed regarding wiring. The new unit might use a different temperature sensor on the batteries, so double check that. Also, like mentioned above you might need to swap the control panel and the connecting wiring (unless the new & old use are the same brand and use the same control panel.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted April 9, 2019 Oldmarine, call customer support for your current inverter manufacturer. They will know all of the ins and outs with this conversion. I was going to upgrade ours a few years back, they told me the same thing DD just said, control panel is different. on a good note the cable in the coach walls was not changed. So back to your question, In our case it is plug and play on our Xantrex. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OLDMARINE Report post Posted April 11, 2019 Just a small update , was in Contact w/Xantrex and ordered a new Pure Sinewave Inverter/charger ,Had to get a new Panel + a Adaptor . I want to Thank everybody for there Input . Just have to wait until it gets here + install it . As per the Xantrex Tech it will be a pretty much a pluck+play Thing , and offered Tech Support , should I need it . I am looking forward to getting updated since we ruined a Tablet with the old Inverter + not wanting to loose a Computer or other Electronics .Again , many thanks , I will Keep You updated once I got it installed Old Marine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted April 11, 2019 Glad to hear! keep us posted, i'm sure an upgrade on ours is inevitable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayin Report post Posted April 12, 2019 Xantrex is an excellent product, if my obsolete RS 20000 SW ever dies, I'll replace it with Xantrex's new equivalent. Their customer support service has helped my with every question. EDIT: Donco made me re-read my Xantrex owners manual, I was wrong, it does not say it is a pure sine wave inverter, it simply says "sine wave". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donco234 Report post Posted April 16, 2019 WHY, As an Electrical Engineer I can tell you that the words "Pure Sine Wave" or "Modified Sine Wave" as it applies to RV inverters has more to do with marketing than electricity. NO RV INVERTER has a Pure Sine wave output, they simply use circuity to imitate a pure sign wave and only partially do so. As I told my good friend recently who had recently replaced his propane fridge with a residential, "you would be wasting money". I can't think of a reason to remove a perfectly good inverter and replace it with a modified sine wave of the same size. No appliance or gadget that I know if that is commonly used in an RV would even know the difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted April 17, 2019 DonCo, Welcome to the FMCA Forum ! Totally agree with most of what you are offering. The big issue between MSW and Pure Sine wave signals is there affect on old line frequency clocks and a number of the new computer controlled appliances, an a number of items others consider essential life enhancing technologies. We are tethered to 60 cycle. There are other systems that do work very well, but there are a number of items that create a high neutral current load because of the K factor. The transition from vacuum tubes was one of the greatest revolutions because of total efficiency, size and frequency spectrum's. Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donco234 Report post Posted April 17, 2019 I have examined the output of several types of inverters on an oscilloscope. None make a pure sine wave. What confuses most electronic devices is the bounce in voltage and frequency when large loads are switched on and off. The circuitry that mimics the sign wave inside the inverter do not do so as well at all load levels and battery input voltages. Some are better than others. All personal computers have power supplies and filtering that makes them mostly imune from power wave form geometry.. Still don't reccomend replacing an expensive inverter just to get one that "claims" better sine wave simulation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richard5933 Report post Posted April 17, 2019 Don't the MSW inverters play havoc with some multi-meters? It would seem to me that if digital multi-meters are confused by the output of a MSW inverter, some digital equipment might be as well if it's doing any type of voltage monitoring. Of course, all I have is anecdotal accounts to rely on, but there does seem to be a functional difference in some cases between PSW and MSW inverters. We had a power supply for a tv which wouldn't work on our MSW on our last bus, but it works perfectly on the PSW we have now. I always assumed it had to do with the difference between the two inverters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickandlois Report post Posted April 17, 2019 Richard, The RMS Reading on sine wave compared to Square Wave running at the same frequency will be lower. The voltage / power is available only when the wave form is on and only carried on a system in the enclosed area of the waveform. One can shape a wave form with numerous designs in the filters and circuits . One can build Frequency shift or pulse width style power circuits. The Wave forms will never equal each others true power factors because of the clipped signal form relative to an analog wave form. Rich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OLDMARINE Report post Posted April 19, 2019 Hi , just a little more on the Conversion. Got the new Inverter/Charger , had to get a new Control Panel + a Adapter , ok , no big Deal (or so I thought) I was all Gung Hoo and removed the old one (Xantrex RV2012GS), made sure I have it all written down where all the Wires go . Unpacked the New one +opened the Panel for the electrical Hookup , O BOY !!! , Completely Different . The old one has 6 Places to install 2 Loads In +out , the new one has only 4 places to install 1 Load In +out . Also there is no Place to Install the Wires For starting the Generator + to keep an Eye on it for possible Faults . Called the Factory . They told me I have to go to a 3K Model in order to be able to install 2 Loads , and I still will not be able to hook up the Generator unless I buy another Control Panel + another Wiring Harness ( $ 180.00 + $ 38.00 respectively) +maybe bigger Charging Wires + Fuse , depending on whats in the Coach right now .Well ,so much for Plug+Play . The Ventor is willing to take the Inverter back , Providing I buy the bigger Inverter .but this will be aprox. 2 weeks or so . So if any off You consider this , Watch Out . Its not always PLUG + PLAY . I will keep You in the Loop as it happens. CHEERS , OLD MARINE By the way , the Coach is a 2010Tiffin Pheaton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayin Report post Posted April 19, 2019 Thanks Marine! I'll keep your experience and advice in mind if/when my inverter fails. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OLDMARINE Report post Posted May 6, 2019 Hi Everybody , Got my SW 3012 12V 3000W Inverter/Charger this past Friday , Installed it Saturday ,Installed new control Panel + Adapter Cables .But then got lacy + used the old Battery sensor Of course , I got a Red Light (fault) on the Panel .First I thought ,better recheck all my Wiring , well this was OK ,had to get a Bier and mulling everything over + over , Then I saw the new Battery Sensor , I almost brushed it off , But what the Heck + Plugged in the new one . Well wouldn't You know ,The red Light is off .Went true the all the Test's .A OK HURRA !!! I guess it Pays off not to do Short Cuts . Thanks Everybody for Your Input , Richard 5933 , I did not take Pictures , but made a lot off Notes + marked my wires W/Tape so as not to mix up the 2 Different Loads Donco 234 , I am not a Electrical Engineer and don't claim to be one . But after My Wives Tablet got messed up + got told at BEST BUY , that it got a Jolt by something Electrical and everything was OK before our last Trip , it must of had something to do with the Coach . On all Forums this discussion comes up at Times + always goes back to the Modified Sine Wave Inverter being the Culprit . So , Happy Wife - Happy Life . Sorry Donco 234 , That's my only Defense Cheers + happy + safe Travels OLD MARINE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richard5933 Report post Posted May 6, 2019 Glad it worked out well. Sounds like that break for a beer was all that you needed to get things back on track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted May 6, 2019 Richard, I'm wondering what a "Bier" is. Could it be a beer only sold in Arizona? Glad you are back in business olemarine. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted May 6, 2019 Glad to see a happy ending! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
