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jon48

spray insulation?

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My coach has a lot of areas that has some sort of foam looking insulation.  It is black, or dark grey in color and can be easily broken into pieces or cut with a knife.  It looks somewhat like the spray foam insulation called "great stuff" except it is not as dense as that product.  See attached.

I had to remove some to repair a shorted wire.  I'd like to replace the insulation as best as I can.

Is there a product name for this stuff, otherwise I plan on using the above mentioned "great stuff".  I'd rather not go that route if I can find the correct product.

Any ideas?

IMG_0114.jpg

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Do you know if it is flame resistant?

Could you also post the Make, Model and Year of your coach?

great stuff!  Intended for use in residential application to maintain the continuity of an approved fire block material. Not to be used in firestop applications. 

Rich.

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Jon48.

If you put the make, model & year in your signature, it would come up automatically on each post.  Like mine, under my first name.

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15 minutes ago, hermanmullins said:

Jon,

Home Depot or Lowe's, ask for a can of Foam Insulation. It will be yellow but it will work for a small repair.

Herman

 

Herman, Do you know the flame ability factor of the insulation?

Could it be ignited by an electrical issue?

Rich.

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Rich, I wouldn't think so since they recommend it to be used to seal around electrical boxes in homes. Our home, that is only 6 years old, had all the wiring installed then was all foamed in. 

Herman

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Maybe true Rich, but in my mind that is what the insulation is for, to keep the wiring from being exposed to the elements.

JMHO

Herman 

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Thanks for the comments.  The coach is a 2019 Tiffin 37BA.  The specifics for the query is that the wire harness for the Lippert Controller on the bedroom slide was throwing an error which was that the hall sensor power was shorted.  I left coach at a shop for repair and they had it 3 mo's.  They replaced both motors and one of the 2 harnesses.  I picked up coach and within no time at all the error re-appeared.  Since everything is shutdown due to CoVid I figured I'd look around myself since I did not want to return to the prior vendor.  Within an hour I had determined that the likely problem was the wire I could see under the coach pinched between the coach frame and the floor.  I don't know how they construct the floor but this wire apparently had 'jumped' out of it's wireway and the floor was installed on top of it.  I suppose after a few thousand miles the insulation finally wore through and grounded.  It took me less than 1 day to find the problem that consumed 3 mo's of someone else's time.  Tiffin sent me a new wire harness.

The wire is fed to the slide from under the bed.  There is a wireway there and a lot of various wires and pipes run through it and filled with the foam.  It was easy to break away and clean out to access the bad harness.  This foam can be seen at many other locations around my rig, including in the corners of the front cap, where the mirrors attach and at various other places.  It appears that it is used to, among other things, stabilize wiring & plumbing so that it does not chaff/vibrate/or otherwise be easily assessable.

I think "Great Stuff" would work fine but I was seeking more info in case there is a reason to use something else.  I don't think Great Stuff is a problem with the above mentioned fire concerns.  Perhaps the Tiffin product is easier/cheaper to use and used in bulk.  Perhaps that product is not available "in a can".  I asked to see if anyone here had a better idea than "Great Stuff".  It looks like that is what I will be using.

 

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Your coach should still be under warranty!  I do believe that if you call Tiffin and ask to speak with Bob Tiffin, all will be taken care off in warranty or not.  Bob Tiffin takes very good care of his customers!  We have friends from AZ that are in Red Bay now & a lot of after market add on's has already been done at no cost, over the past 6 weeks, because Bob T felt it should have been on the 2019 Allegro Bus 45' to begin with.   

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Jon, Thanks for the heads up ! From your information and where the wire is run I see no problem(s) . Thinking from your information, that you cut the wire, repaired the problem after running it through the intended wire way. 

You have some good skill sets. Most of us would have been frustrated and not taken the time to find or even see where the issue was hiding. 

Good job and safe travels.

Rich.

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I am in the camp of why not call Tiffin and se what they say. I would also ask if they have a can of the foam they use so you could complete the repair. Probabley don't need to talk to Bob but you could use that step if they don't make you happy.

Bill

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1 hour ago, manholt said:

Your coach should still be under warranty!  

You are correct but I live at least a week's drive from Red Bay.  Before the Stay in Place orders I was intending to go there rather than do it myself (plus all the potential problems of social distancing to get there and then stay there for the repair).  With the "stay at home" situation I have plenty of time so I decided to see if I could find the problem.  I found it and so that is that.  I still have an issue with my right mirror camera and after I see what is happening with the world in the next month or two I may decide to go to Red Bay to address that issue.  Or, if it is not too difficult to swap out the camera I may try that myself.  

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1 hour ago, DickandLois said:

Thinking from your information, that you cut the wire, repaired the problem after running it through the intended wire way. 

Did that.  Rather than fight the issue of feeding the wire up the track alongside the slide, where there is absolutely  no room to work, I cut the harness and soldered the individual wires, using shrink tubing on each wire and then tubing over the whole mass, it's done and apparently working.  I say apparently because I have not taken a spin with it yet and it always seemed to work a few times before failing after a taking the rig out.

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1 hour ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

I am in the camp of why not call Tiffin and se what they say.

I would be surprised if they had a can of foam.  This looks to me like it was applied from an industrial use rig, like a hose with air power.  For all the foam on my rig I would estimate it would take cases of cans to do the job in a complete build.  Unlikely that they use cans.

I'm satisfied with the phone assistance I have had from Tiffin (so far) and so will just use the can I have laying around my basement to fill the space and stabilize the wiring that was disturbed when I dug out the damaged wiring.

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Here is an interesting read on foam insulation as a fire retardant. https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/dow-great-stuff-fireblock-watch-out

I worked in a mobile home factory back in the 70's, we built many coaches using foam insulation in addition to the regular fiberglass bats, because it made R factor for colder climates. UL approved the use of the foam product because their test results concluded that it was an excellent product for fire retardation. Several months went by and it was discovered that a coach using foam insulation was easier to catch fire than one without it. UL was contacted and further testing was performed. Here is what found out with further testing. The initial test results were conducted with a Bunsen burner placed under a horizontal flat sheet of foam resisted up to 1800 degrees,  the melting point of steel, and that is what UL posted as their results. With further testing because of complaints, the same foam sheet was stood vertical and flame was applied, the foam began to blaze at 240 degrees. UL paid the company that I worked for to recall all units that had left our facility with the enhanced insulation (foam) to be removed. I hope that this is not off subject, but I feel it is revelant to the OP question. I would not be afraid to use great stuff for your purpose, but I feel it important to know the facts.

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1 hour ago, kaypsmith said:

Here is an interesting read on foam insulation as a fire retardant. https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/dow-great-stuff-fireblock-watch-out

I worked in a mobile home factory back in the 70's

Thanks for the interesting info.  I haven't read the link yet but it seems appropriate for what I am searching for.  I did check the can of "Great Stuff" and it sez "combustible". It is made by Dow so I'll look for their MSDS sheet. 

The area I'm looking to apply this stuff is under the bed and just behind the rear axle.  So not directly over the engine but fairly near by.  Maybe I'll just put a little squirt into the passthrough from the underside of the carriage into the wireway to plug the hole rather than filling up the whole thing like it was before.

 

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3 hours ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

I am in the camp of why not call Tiffin and see what they say.

Bill

After researching the consumer spray foam products I think this is a worthwhile approach. 

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I did notice the only black industrial foam in the 2nd link is an adhesive foam.

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Just to wrap up this thread, and for anyone in the future with same question, I spoke to Tiffin and they indicated that there was not a specific type or specification of foam used in the wiring tray under the bed and that I could use any sort of spray foam.  Thinking later about the phone call he left me with the impression (but did not say) that there is no need to put anything back in that space.  I will certainly spray some foam into the area where the wires pass from the engine area into the tray to prevent any fumes or insects and rodents from entering that wiring tray (it's not really a tray, it's a compartment under the floor that contains wires and plumbing).

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