FREEZING! COOLANT LEAK?

[eric@babin.com]

Equipment: 2014 Itasca Ellipse / Cummins 450hp

I know it's cold everywhere.... but, we aren't used to it here in south central Texas.

It's been below freezing for a couple days, and got down to about 3 above zero last night.

We do live in the RV, and have had engine heater on since it got really cold.

I just noticed the snow under the radiator has some pink drops which means I have some sort of coolant leak.   The top tank (surge tank?) shows fluid at it's prior level.  

I haven't gotten under there to really look yet.... 

Wondering if I should start the engine up to see if I have issues..... or wait until I can check for the leak location?  

As mentioned, level appears fine.
 

Edited February 15, 2021 by eric@babin.com

[dickandlois]

Eric. The first thing that come to mind, Is you'r antifreeze low freeze point is not set low enough. 

Not nominal temps in your part of the world. Do you have a Coolant Hydrometer ?  Think I would see what the coolant low point is reading first.  

Outsets like  auto Zone sell them - If they are not sold out at the time!

Up north we set the low point at -35 degrees F. 

Let us know the reading. That is the best starting point for now. 

Rich.  

[eric@babin.com]

21 minutes ago, dickandlois said:

Eric. The first thing that come to mind, Is you'r antifreeze low freeze point is not set low enough. 

Not nominal temps in your part of the world. Do you have a Coolant Hydrometer ?  Think I would see what the coolant low point is reading first.  

Outsets like  auto Zone sell them - If they are not sold out at the time!

Up north we set the low point at -35 degrees F. 

Let us know the reading. That is the best starting point for now. 

Rich.  

ok.... not going anywhere today... but will do once I can get out...... too icy out there today and probably tomorrow. 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by eric@babin.com

[manholt]

Eric, we are in Three Rivers, down by lake Choke State Park.  front lawn and 3 acres looks just like yours....we had 14/2 at 9 am!  Rich is right.  Hydrometer is less than $5, I carry 1 in coach, toad. 🥶☃️

[richard5933]

Most any NAPA store will also have dip strips you can use to check the coolant protection level as well as various additives for some coolant types.

From what it sounds like, you've got some drips from your coolant lines. For us up here in the great frozen north, this can be somewhat normal - especially for older rigs. Not sure how old your coach is (you might want to add this to your signature) so I can't say for certain if this is what's happening.

As the rubber in the coolant lines gets older, it gets harder and it also tends to get compressed between the clamps and the metal flange it's mounted to. As the metal flange shrinks from the cold, the rubber doesn't have enough elasticity to fill the newly formed gap when the flange got ever-so-slightly smaller.

On my 46-year-old coach I go through this every winter. As temps drop to below freezing I'll start to get a few drips from my older coolant lines. It usually takes only a quarter turn or so on the hose clamps to take care of the problem. Sometimes a bit more. The hoses that take more than a quarter turn are put on the list to be replaced during the coming spring.

It can also help if you install constant-tension clamps on your coolant lines. These are a particular type of hose clamp which has a spring tensioner in the clamping device, and as things shrink up in the cold the clamp tries to continue tightening to prevent these little annoyance leaks.

All that said, if your coolant is not protecting your system at the current temps it's always possible that something more serious has happened. Get our your strongest flashlight and try and find where the leak is coming from. If it's from your engine block you will need to investigate further before restarting. If it's from any of the lines, chase it back to find the leaking clamp and give it a turn. Sometimes these little leaks can be quite devious and difficult to find, as the little drops will wind their way around multiple parts before making themselves visible. Just remember, if the engine is not being run drips always go downhill, not up.

[hermanmullins]

I remember Choke Canyon Lake. Fished there for several days. I should have known that any Lake the Advertises their Catfish Tournament would not be a top notch lake for large mouth bass. However they have enough alligators for 10 lakes. They were everywhere.

Herman 

[eric@babin.com]

2 hours ago, richard5933 said:

Most any NAPA store will also have dip strips you can use to check the coolant protection level as well as various additives for some coolant types.

From what it sounds like, you've got some drips from your coolant lines. For us up here in the great frozen north, this can be somewhat normal - especially for older rigs. Not sure how old your coach is (you might want to add this to your signature) so I can't say for certain if this is what's happening.

As the rubber in the coolant lines gets older, it gets harder and it also tends to get compressed between the clamps and the metal flange it's mounted to. As the metal flange shrinks from the cold, the rubber doesn't have enough elasticity to fill the newly formed gap when the flange got ever-so-slightly smaller.

On my 46-year-old coach I go through this every winter. As temps drop to below freezing I'll start to get a few drips from my older coolant lines. It usually takes only a quarter turn or so on the hose clamps to take care of the problem. Sometimes a bit more. The hoses that take more than a quarter turn are put on the list to be replaced during the coming spring.

It can also help if you install constant-tension clamps on your coolant lines. These are a particular type of hose clamp which has a spring tensioner in the clamping device, and as things shrink up in the cold the clamp tries to continue tightening to prevent these little annoyance leaks.

All that said, if your coolant is not protecting your system at the current temps it's always possible that something more serious has happened. Get our your strongest flashlight and try and find where the leak is coming from. If it's from your engine block you will need to investigate further before restarting. If it's from any of the lines, chase it back to find the leaking clamp and give it a turn. Sometimes these little leaks can be quite devious and difficult to find, as the little drops will wind their way around multiple parts before making themselves visible. Just remember, if the engine is not being run drips always go downhill, not up.

Sounds like a plan..... 

I did edit the original post with coach info which is 2014 Itasca Ellipse Cummins 450hp.

[eric@babin.com]

I climbed under and got these pictures.... unless the drip is coming from above and dropping right on top of this hose connection I think you are right... just needs a little tightening.  It has stopped leaking... I put some card board under it to verify.... 3 drops over a 3 hour period earlier... and nothing more since.  Wednesday afternoon it should be above freezing so we'll be doing our weekly driving up the hill to dump... I'll be sure that is the location before we do that.  

[richard5933]

Looks like the clamps to me. Good news is that you already have the constant tension clamps on there, so once you give them a little extra turn they should hold steady. Give them a wipe with a towel to try and dry things off and check again in the morning.

[five]

As an aside, you don't need to turn the engine heat on unless you are going to start it.  If you are going to start it, Cummins says to turn the pre heat on if the temp will be 40 degrees are lower.  They are all different, my DD  says to turn the eng heat on if 50 or lower.

[eric@babin.com]

47 minutes ago, five said:

As an aside, you don't need to turn the engine heat on unless you are going to start it.  If you are going to start it, Cummins says to turn the pre heat on if the temp will be 40 degrees are lower.  They are all different, my DD  says to turn the eng heat on if 50 or lower.

That is what I figured but.... just had the oil changed and was working under the "better safe than sorry" theory to keep the engine happy.  Wasn't sure exactly what the heater was "heating". 

 

[manholt]

Eric, in the engine compartment you should have a line with a male plug, most times it just hangs there and you'll have a female plug.  That's for your block heater, if not already plugged in, do so about 2+ hours before  starting engine.

[rayin]

The engine heater warms the coolant, thus the drips. Warm coolant expands and puts pressure on the joint and hose clamps. I agree with richard5933 recommendation to tighten the constant pressure clamp bolts a bit _do not collapse springs. I had to do that a couple years ago, no drips since.

[eric@babin.com]

1 hour ago, manholt said:

Eric, in the engine compartment you should have a line with a male plug, most times it just hangs there and you'll have a female plug.  That's for your block heater, if not already plugged in, do so about 2+ hours before  starting engine.

I've got two switches on my main control panel inside.

One is labeled "engine heater", when I turn it on it pulls about 7 amps.  Another is part of my aquahot switches labeled "engine preheat".  

I assume if I have these, I won't have the male plug hanging in the back / engine compartment. ????  (2014 Itasca Ellipse Cummins 450hp)

[hermanmullins]

You should have an 120 vac receptacle in the engine compartment. It is for the "engine heater" or "block heater". That is where your male plug plugs into. When you are plugged into shore power the receptacle is hot when the block heater switch is on. In your case I am not sure which is for the block heater from shore power or from the circulation pump from the Aqua Hot which when the AQ is on will send hot coolant through the engine to preheat the engine.

By not seeing how yours is set up it is hard to tell. (I am assuming since when you turn on the "engine heater" it start to draw power that is the switch for the block heater)

Herman

[richard5933]

You might have both an electric pre-heat which runs off your 120v system, and a pre-heat built into your Aqua Hot system which can probably be run on either 120v or 12v, depending on how it's set up. This would give you options on pre-heating the engine depending on whether or not you're plugged into shore power.

You don't need to run either unless you're planning to start the engine, and you have no need to start the engine unless you're planning to move the coach.

[kaypsmith]

9 hours ago, eric@babin.com said:

Another is part of my aquahot switches labeled "engine preheat".  

This position is "supposed" to send AQ fluid through your engine to preheat the engine, if this one is engaged, and you are using AQ, then there is no need to turn on the block heater.

[manholt]

As Kay said, that's the way my AH worked on the last coach!

[wayne77590]

Eric, here is the operator manual for the 2014 Tour 42QD.  Search on the word preheat and you should see what it does.

I agree that if you don't intend on starting the engine to move, don't start it. It should be fine.

Also, in your Aqua Hot Compartment there is a knob that is a thermostat controller for basement heat.  Set it to above 40 degrees. I set mine at 50 and your basements should stay between 35 and 45 degrees.

Cheers. I have the sister ship to your MH. Everything is the same except for inside asthetics and paint schemes.

p.s., "If no one is in the coach, electric on, open cabinet doors under sinks if down to 30 deg F.  Below that add diesel burner.  If in the coach, add diesel to electric when temp is below 50 deg F."  This is from the expert in my area.

Edited February 16, 2021 by wayne77590

[eric@babin.com]

I have an update....

so.... I cleaned off where the clamp was and left it overnight.... 

The next day it had a drip or two at the clamp on the bottom of the hose and also at the top... it's a very short 90 degree hose.... 

Gave each side a couple turns to tighten....

We did need to move the coach that day to dump.... ran for about 20 minutes.... no leak.

parked overnight..... checked today.... no leak at all.

"Easy day". 

[richard5933]

Glad that you're having continued success. These can be an annoyance, but usually pretty easy to solve. Eventually the rubber will get hard enough or old enough that you won't be able to stop the drips, so keep these hoses on your watch list next year. If you have any other reason to drain the coolant, that would be a prime time to change out any that are looking worse for the wear.