Performance Improvments

[wildebill308]

Good, you got a nice boost in performance. Yes the colder air does help. I added the Bankes $in stainless muffler a while back. I don't think it is any louder than the stock one. I like the exaust tip.

Still trying to get used to this new desine of the site.

Since this is an old thread about upgrades, I will add that I am looking at adding the Banks Strait shot injection system. I can run just water or a water methanal mix. Stay tued for more breaking news

Bill

[jleamont]

Wow, are you trying to bracket race a DP?

 

[wildebill308]

I am mostley going to be running just water to help keep EGT temps down on long hills. If I was going to bracket race it I would be installing a little NOX and maybe a little propane.  

Bill

[manholt]

Well, there is bracket racing for over the road tractors and plow the field tractors...So, why not DP's?   Joe.  You could roll down here to Texas during the winter and get this thing started, so to speak.  All Bill and I got, is to look at the Deer and Antelope play, along with the Axis and Impalas...exotic game ranch escapees!   Don't forget to bring ObedB with you...he'd be a hoot!

Carl

[skyking650]

Just installed the Bully Dog Heavy Duty Tuner module on my 2013 ISL 450HP equipped Entegra (Spartan chassis). 

Have not taken it on a trip yet but in a quick drive it seems stronger.  I do have a V-Box that I can attach and go back to stock setting and do a before and after 0-60mph or 30-90 etc,  if anyone is interested.  Right now I have it set at the 15% gain setting which is supposedly a power + economy setting.  I recently bought the coach and found that when pulling my enclosed trailer 2600 lb + 3100 lb vette, it got slow going up some 7% grades.  I am eager to see if the extra 70+ hp and torque makes a difference.  Will let you all know.

[five]

I take it you know the Allison 3000 is rated for a max of 450 HP and 1,250 ft/lbs of torque.

[desertdeals69]

I thought the ISL had a 4000 Allison.

[wolfe10]

No, at least our 2003 ISL 400 has the Allison 3000.  Suspect all of them do.

The advent of Transynd/synthetic fluid allowed Allison to up permissible HP/torque.

[wildebill308]

9 hours ago, skyking650 said:

Just installed the Bully Dog Heavy Duty Tuner module on my 2013 ISL 450HP equipped Entegra (Spartan chassis). 

Have not taken it on a trip yet but in a quick drive it seems stronger.  I do have a V-Box that I can attach and go back to stock setting and do a before and after 0-60mph or 30-90 etc,  if anyone is interested.  Right now I have it set at the 15% gain setting which is supposedly a power + economy setting.  I recently bought the coach and found that when pulling my enclosed trailer 2600 lb + 3100 lb vette, it got slow going up some 7% grades.  I am eager to see if the extra 70+ hp and torque makes a difference.  Will let you all know.

When you slow on those long 7%+  hills try manually downshifting to raise your RPM. If you can't accelerate in a gear you need to downshift till you can. Then hold your RPM to give you near peak HP. 

If you don't have a Exhaust temperature gauge you are at risk of running too hot of EGT and can damage your engine. I won't have a diesel without EGT and boost gauges.

Bill

[manholt]

Mine is an ISL 425hp Cummins and 3000 Allison, I can add 50-60 more hp per Cummins and Allison.  That does not affect my torque, it would still be 1250.  Anything more than that, I might as well get a 500hp+ coach...changing the gearing of a Allison is a lot of $$$$ !

2012 or 13, 450 Cummins on DEF= a 9 to 12% loss in net HP, per Cummins...how then does he get a 70+ Torque...since the 400 series = 1250?

[wolfe10]

Here are the variables that engine manufacturers "juggle".  Yes, you can change one, but it WILL affect the others:

Power

MPG

Emissions

Engine longevity

 

THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES-- NO SILVER BULLETS!

 

[manholt]

Brett.  There is a lot of "Snake Oil" out there.   It's a large, heavy, rock and roll box on wheels, not a race car...do I care how fast I get from 0 to whatever?  I don't think I can even go 90mph and I'm not crazy enough to find out !

[hermanmullins]

I have to go along with the engineers. When they matched my coach's weight, length with the best engine and transmission, they knew a lot better what was best for my coach then I would ever know.

Herman 

[jleamont]

I have given this some thought my here's my thoughts; when the dealer rerates horsepower they do it via a full ECM software download change, and a lot of items (parameters) are altered to achieve the power change but prior several things are taken into consideration before its allowed, here are a few examples; air flow to the engine compartment, cooling system capabilities, how much heat will be generated in the space provided, etc.

When an aftermarket company software goes in, most of the time they just crank up engine timing and alter the time the fuel injector is flowing fuel the injectors after a certain throttle position, the sub systems mentioned above are not taken into consideration (how would they even know, chassis manufacture and coach manufacture determines most that). If a Cummins dealer did a rerate on the engine, I would be good with that, and they will only set it to what the engine is capable of producing based off of the internal components it was built with. As mentioned above its a give and take scenario.

I have been involved with several truck rerates in the past, some we were unable to perform due to cab mounting, sounds crazy but the 25 HP the customer requested was denied due to low cab mounting lack of air flow which could potentially cause a fire or engine damage and inadequate cooling system (radiator size). Another one I did I had to replace the drive shafts and yokes, they were not designed to handle the extra power coming down them, maxed out at the factory when designed. The days of adding a different carburetor, intake manifold or camshaft for more power are gone, chassis are now built to tight tolerances and no room for advancement is allowed.

[obedb]

Still confused about the need to boost the output  of a diesel pusher. Could not be happier with our 330 Cat at 860 pounds feet of torque. The coach with fuel, water, and provisions pulling a Subaru Forester grosses about 32,000 pounds. Does everything that I want. I still pass loaded 18 wheelers on Rocky Mountain Grades. How do I know they are loaded/ drove one for many years and I easily recognize the guys pulling hard. I am driving a heavy vehicle/ not a sports car.

When I started trucking, a 220 hp Cummins powering a rig that grossed up to 73,280 lbs was the norm (yea I am a dinosaur).  Our current rig still puts to shame, our first coach/ 460 Ford power/ replacement cam shaft/ Doug Thorley Headers and an over sized muffler. Ran well but not like our Cat. The Cat gets far better fuel mileage, and the noise is in the back.

Would not change a thing.

[wildebill308]

Yes but how many gears did you have?

Bill

[manholt]

10, 12 and probably split...big calf muscle in left leg!  

[jleamont]

3 hours ago, manholt said:

10, 12 and probably split...big calf muscle in left leg!  

YUP, and walked with a limp because of it

[obedb]

13 speed. But low was rarely used. It was REALLY low. Essentially 12 forward gears. 😎

[skyking650]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:18 PM, WILDEBILL308 said:

When you slow on those long 7%+  hills try manually downshifting to raise your RPM. If you can't accelerate in a gear you need to downshift till you can. Then hold your RPM to give you near peak HP. 

If you don't have a Exhaust temperature gauge you are at risk of running too hot of EGT and can damage your engine. I won't have a diesel without EGT and boost gauges.

Bill

Thanks for all the replies.  In fact the tuner module that mounts on the dash has EGT, Boost, and many other parameters that the user can monitor while driving.  There are even settings for warnings if so desired.  The user can set limits to several parameters.  Not to confuse anyone with 0-60 or 30-90 performance numbers, but these are simple and standard measurements of performance and the subsequent increases or decreases in performance when testing aftermarket upgrades.  Buy a new Jeep SRT, Ford Focus RS, Corvette, or dozens of other cars and you will find onboard data that measures and displays these parameters on a touch screen built into the vehicle from your favorite manufacturer.

I can appreciate the sentiments about Racing Motorhomes and factory engineering but these things are not space ships built to perform on the edge of destruction with no built in margin or safety factor.  In my opinion, these drive-trains are designed with a 100,000 mile warranty in mind, and governed down in performance because they know these things are going to take a beating in all sorts of conditions.  Having flown jets for a living and raced cars as a hobby for decades, i feel confident that I can manage the output of this motorhome engine and tranny.  My post isn't a recommendation to others to go out and hop up their motorhomes (although companies such as Banks and K&N are banking on us) but merely giving information to other owners who may have similar interests.  

Thanks again,

Tom

P.S.  Life is short....I want to spend as little time as possible limping up hills trying to get to my destinations.  If I can get 15-20% more power from my coach during the few instances that I need it, then I'm a happy man.  If the gains subtract 100,000 miles from the million mile life of the engine, its a fair trade off in my book as I've never owned a vehicle that I put more than 50,000 miles on.  Just my $ 0.02 

[wildebill308]

4 hours ago, skyking650 said:

Thanks for all the replies.  In fact the tuner module that mounts on the dash has EGT, Boost, and many other parameters that the user can monitor while driving.  There are even settings for warnings if so desired.  The user can set limits to several parameters.  Not to confuse anyone with 0-60 or 30-90 performance numbers, but these are simple and standard measurements of performance and the subsequent increases or decreases in performance when testing aftermarket upgrades.  Buy a new Jeep SRT, Ford Focus RS, Corvette, or dozens of other cars and you will find onboard data that measures and displays these parameters on a touch screen built into the vehicle from your favorite manufacturer.

I can appreciate the sentiments about Racing Motorhomes and factory engineering but these things are not space ships built to perform on the edge of destruction with no built in margin or safety factor.  In my opinion, these drive-trains are designed with a 100,000 mile warranty in mind, and governed down in performance because they know these things are going to take a beating in all sorts of conditions.  Having flown jets for a living and raced cars as a hobby for decades, i feel confident that I can manage the output of this motorhome engine and tranny.  My post isn't a recommendation to others to go out and hop up their motorhomes (although companies such as Banks and K&N are banking on us) but merely giving information to other owners who may have similar interests.  

Thanks again,

Tom

P.S.  Life is short....I want to spend as little time as possible limping up hills trying to get to my destinations.  If I can get 15-20% more power from my coach during the few instances that I need it, then I'm a happy man.  If the gains subtract 100,000 miles from the million mile life of the engine, its a fair trade off in my book as I've never owned a vehicle that I put more than 50,000 miles on.  Just my $ 0.02 

Understand your sentiment However if you did not drill and install a pyrometer in your exhaust before the turbo you don't have any kind of accurate EGT temps.

Bill

[manholt]

Yea, that sort of goes for the rest also...you got to have installed sensors to receive accurate information.  Like a Jet, you won't get much feed back, by just throwing a chip and a computer at it.   There is absolutely no correlation between a Jet Plane, race car and a DP coach...yes, they burn fuel, ride on rubber (Jet part time) and go forward. 

[skyking650]

3 hours ago, manholt said:

Yea, that sort of goes for the rest also...you got to have installed sensors to receive accurate information.  Like a Jet, you won't get much feed back, by just throwing a chip and a computer at it.   There is absolutely no correlation between a Jet Plane, race car and a DP coach...yes, they burn fuel, ride on rubber (Jet part time) and go forward. 

Thanks again for your replies.  I understand about installing sensors.  On some of the drag car engines we built we installed sensors in all of the exhaust pipes and a wide band O2 on all of the nitrous engines.  I figure we are not pushing the ISL to anywhere near its limits with a ECU upgrade, but I will let everyone know if it comes apart or the transmission fails.  If you have more interest in reading about some of my racing background, feel free to check out my Dodge Viper Upgrades website at www.btrviper.com or go to youtube and look up my MP4-12C Mclaren 1/4 mile pass.  I think I still hold the record for quickest Mclaren at 10.19 @ 137 MPH

In summary, I'm not looking to rawdog a beautiful motorcoach, nor am i looking to spend a bunch of time drilling holes and running leads 40+ feet to monitor a 15% gain on a drivetrain that is surely de-rated twice that much.  I will instead put guarded faith in the installed tuning device and monitor the information provided while hopefully taking advantage of some small gain that could be realized by this upgrade.

Thanks again for all of your comments.

Tom

[manholt]

Tom.  That's a beautiful thing, quite a long time since I have seen a McLaren on/off a drag strip!  Thanks for sharing.

I had to give up on the APBA and IPBA in 2000, it was doing a thing to my kidneys...ran a open class 47 foot Skater, with twin 1,000hps.  Also ran a 32 foot Scarab, with twin 502's stock. 

[jleamont]

Tom, enjoy the toys, you only live once make each day count!