five Report post Posted February 5, 2019 If they are making the 650, American Coach no longer uses it...they are all 600s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deenad Report post Posted July 30, 2019 Yes it is the ISX 650 that drops valves. There are a few 600 ISX's that have also done it. Cummins calls it "chordal failure". Acid from the EGR eats #6 intake valve then they break. Mine has been rebuilt 3 times in 58,000 miles. In 4 years I've spent $53,000 for engine repairs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
struys Report post Posted March 21, 2020 Well, it looks like I have just joined a very exclusive group of RVers. 😪 The 400hp Cummins ISL (CM850) in my 2007 Country Coach Allure just died north of Las Vegas. At 13 years old with almost 69,000 miles, I wonder if the wrist pin defect recall will be diagnosed as the root cause of this "catatrophic" engine failure as described by the local Freightliner shop. My engine's serial number falls right in the middle of the range of the approximately 2,000 engines identified in that recall. I have read of several similar failures, but none as old as my RV or with as many miles. I'm looking at $45k for repairs as quoted by Freightliner in Las Vegas. I am very, very hopeful that Cummins will show some mercy and offer some compensation. Like every other similar posting, there were no previous indications, just a sudden, very loud bang and an immediate engine shutdown followed by a huge billowing cloud of vaporized coolant out the exhaust. I am guessing a dropped cylinder sleeve or connecting rod failure puncturing the block into the coolant passage behind the wet sleeve. NEVER found low coolant, higher than expected oil levels or abnormally warm/hot running engine temperatures. I will provide update as my situation progresses.I would appreciate any other opinions or suggestions. Felix Struys FMCA 336008 Vancouver, WA 2007 CC Alllure 37' Sunset Bay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted March 21, 2020 struys, Welcome to the FMCA Forum. Agree, a wist pin failure that late in an ISL's life would be VERY unusual. Common for them to fail fairly quickly or live a long life. Please do keep us posted on the facts as they relate to what failed and the root cause. BTW, $45k sounds very high. Suspect (purely my speculation) but Cummins would likely be more prone to help if this were at a Cummins dealership, not Freightliner dealership. I would at least visit with the Cummins dealer and likely pay, even if out of my own pocket to have it taken to a Cummins dealership. And, kind of like heart surgery, I would rather have a specialist do this (a Cummins tech) vs a generalist at a chassis store who only occasionally did engine work, but also did suspension work, brake work, transmission work, routine service work, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
struys Report post Posted March 21, 2020 Agreed, having it towed 3 miles to the Las Vegas Cummins shop is what I am planning either way, with or without compensation from Cummins. Odd that my 1997 Monaco Windsor with a Cummins ISC came with a five-year, unlimited mileage engine warranty and this engine included a five-year, 100K mileage warranty. I was told to plan on paying an additional6K core charge for the new engine as my original engine is likely damaged beyond any core credit. Long blocks for theis ISL is no longer made by Cummins. A new replacement engine is quoted at $23,900. Labor another $11K. I paid less for my first home! 😭 Felix Struys FMCA 336008 Vancouver, WA 2007 CC Allure 37' Sunset Bay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayin Report post Posted March 21, 2020 I'm saddened to read this. Hopefully Cummins will step-up. A man on irv2.com had an out of warranty Cummins ISX engine failure and Cummins coughed up $10K. Have you considered a Jasper rebuilt engine?: Engine cost might be less, but labor the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted March 21, 2020 Personally I’d seek out a used one, obviously out of the serial number range. Have everything salvageable transferred over (fuel system) maybe cylinder head (assuming the damage is all block related). RV one had a few ISL’s the last time I was on there seeking a Mercedes MB500. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted March 21, 2020 Yes. I would be looking for a replacement engine at salvage yards first. Agree 100% with Brett. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
struys Report post Posted March 21, 2020 Sadly, the recon engine Cummins suggests as a replacement, the DR610, is a better replacement for a 'standard' semi as pretty much everything beyond the long block, intake & exhaust manifolds, turbo, air compressor, etc., are not going to fit my RV. They'll have to swap all of those components from my original engine to the new engine. The ''ideal' replacement engine, the DR6925 at $23,500, comes with everything identical to my failed engine except the air compressor. Sadly, again, this engine is built to order and has a 12 to 14 week lead time. At $23,900 for the new engine plus another $6k for the core, I guess I would have $30K to find a good recon engine elsewhere? The main reason I would lean towards repairs by Cummins would be the warranty. If they are not willing to 'help me out' with a replacement engine now, I probably shouldn't put too much value on the 3-year unlimited warranty they are offering me now. I've seen recon engines from other suppliers in the $10k to $15k range. Maybe a better choice? My only real concern in going that route is that there are so many variation of the ISL from that time period, I may be out much more labor to get everything right. Felix Struys FMCA336008 Vancouver, WA 2007 CC Allure 37' Sunset Bay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted March 23, 2020 A very hard call to make! I guess it boils down to "How in Love" are you with the 07' CC? For the cost of engine & Labor, I would be looking for a "new to me" coach & put the other one up for sale for parts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayin Report post Posted March 23, 2020 I have heard their prices are high, but you might check with https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/welcome.pl? for a used engine to match yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smitty777 Report post Posted March 29, 2020 Sorry to hear of your engine failure!! I'll share that a couple I know with an 03 era Intrigue 40' CAPS era ISL400, lost their engine last year. They went thru a lengthy discussion about if they should: 1) Replaced with used engine; 2) Replace with Cummins new/rebuilt engine; 3) Sell the coach as is, and buy a home in the area they summer in. They felt they wanted to keep RV'ing for the foreseeable future, and have their coach set up very nicely, and very well maintained (And luckily no micro checking too!). So they elected to go with the Cummins new/rebuilt engine. Of course they were not real happy about it, but, they did not feel they wanted do start over again with all of the other systems in another used coach possibly needing to be fixed or upgraded. And they had the interior of their coach setup they way the liked it. So, they made the investment in the coach that the new and loved. I'm sorry I do not recall what was the cause of their engines failure, but must have been a damaged block, or they would have gone the rebuild approach of that engine. Please close the loop back and let us know what you find out on your failure. And fingers crossed that Cummins will give you a Customer Goodwill Assistance:)! And very unique coach you have, is that a 'tag' 37' CC Allure coach? Best to you, Smitty 04 Allure 40' High Cascade - 31017 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted April 1, 2020 I have NO idea if the buyer of this coach that had a fire will be parting it out or rebuliding it. But 2004 Cummins ISL with 67,000 miles on it-- video of it running: https://www.crankyape.com/default.asp?pg=DispSingleItem&ItemNumber=92659 Whole coach sold for $7,050. May be worth a call to see if it sold to someone who is going to part it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
struys Report post Posted April 3, 2020 After a couple of weeks of talking with Cummins, I was told that they cannot provide any financial help with my failed engine. The last assistance that Cummins provided related to the wrist pin recall issue was for a 2014 engine failure in a 2006 RV with 44k miles on the odometer. I was told that it was highly unlikely that a faulty wrist pin was the cause of the engine failure in my 2007 CC Allure with 68k miles. I bought my RV in late 2017 with only 52k miles & believe that it spent a lot of time parked. Like the previous 20 years spent enjoying my 1997 Monaco Windsor, I have made & continue making many 2 week trips driving 5k miles in addition to annual 3 to 4 week trips in the 10k mile range. I spent a week at Cedar Breaks National Monument last summer; anyone else 'enjoy' that climb out of Cedar City at 8 to 10 percent grade to a final altitude of 10,500 feet? Perhaps I have pushed it harder than the previous owner(s) which may have increased the likelihood of a wrist pin failure? I guess I'll never know. Anyway, Cummins did offer to waive the core fee (better than $6k) in an effort to "help me out". The shop foreman doesn't believe that my block is rebuildable due to the 'extensive' damage seen from all the material in the oil pan. I'll post the final outcome later. Smitty777, like your friends, I really don't want to sell my tag-axle 37' CC Allure and would like to continue RVing for many more years. When new, it was ordered with almost every conceivable option. The previous owner, getting ready to RV fulltime, replaced and/or upgraded almost everything including the aquahot system, w/d combo, both TVs & most electronics, installing LED lamps everywhere, etc. I had been looking for the "perfect" RV for a number of years before I found this one for sale! And, it was my extremely good fortune that they decided, at the very last minute, that a 37' RV was just too small for their fulltiming plans! Felix Struys FMCA336008 Vancouver, WA 2007 CC Allure 37; Sunset Bay Tag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBianchini Report post Posted July 23, 2020 Update Please ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
