Biodiesel Fuel in ISC350 - Okay to Use?

[smarksel]

Is it OK to use biodiesel fuels found in many truck stops in my 2001 ISC350 motorhome motor?

[wolfe10]

SMARKSEL,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

From the horses mouth: http://cumminsengines.com/biodiesel-faq

[dickandlois]

Smarksel,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum!

Bio Diesel fuel is kind of a double edged sword> They are here to stay and most engines will run fine on them.

With ULSD you loose lubricity, but the Bio increases that level. The need for some bio-side being added increases with the blend.

The bio blend has the ability to clean residuals from the system, so filters might need to be changed at a more frequent interval's, especially if the engine has not been used a lot between the time when ULSD an LSD change over happened.

So if the coach is new to you there is a need to monitor filters and condition of the fuel for a period of time.

Also, some of the seals and gasket materials did not hold up well when the ULSD first came on the market - this item caused some problems with fuel pumps and fuel lines.


Rich.
I see that Brett already gave you a good link to check out!

[manholt]

I had to fill up at Love's today, only fuel stop in area, took 127 gallons of B15. Hope it will not affect my seals! Don't know if they fixed that problem with Bio.

Normally I stay away from Love, Pilot and TA, due to high Bio mix.

Carl

[wolfe10]

Sorry for the strange font, but this is a "copy and paste" from my Diesel Maintenance Presentation for the Diesel RV Club:

•Cummins:

•Allowable Blend

•Up to 5% (B5) for all engines

•Up to 20% (B20) for engines EPA ‘02 and later

•Additional information available:

•http://cumminsengines.com/biodiesel-faq

[kingfr]

Note that the Cummins document does not mention ISC engines.

[wolfe10]

Note that the Cummins document does not mention ISC engines.

Interesting???

Give them a call:Cummins 800 343-7357

Please let us know what you learn.

[huffypuff]

Frank, I think us ISC users have been hung out to dry. I know I used b10 a few times as it was required by a few states when passing through with no problem. I avoid bio if I can and keep tanks treated with Power Service.

[jleamont]

I ran B15 on the last trip with Howes conditioner and anti gel additive. My fuel mileage dropped from 10.05 to 7.9, I didnt notice any power loss. I ran it as low as possible and filled it up near home at my usual stop with straight Diesel, no bio and Power Service Kleen additive .

[kingfr]

I solved the ISC issue by trading my ISC coach (2008 Phaeton) for an ISL coach (2015 Phaeton).

[wildebill308]

One way to solve the problem. Congrats on the new coach.

Bill

[huffypuff]

Frank, did that ISC have DEF issues? The reason I ask as I'm glad why I didn't get EGR or DEF system or an exhaust filter on my 2006 model year. Whew!

[kingfr]

Frank, did that ISC have DEF issues? The reason I ask as I'm glad why I didn't get EGR or DEF system or an exhaust filter on my 2006 model year. Whew!

The DEF engines did not hit the market until the EPA 2010 rules took effect, in 2010. The 08 ISC coach had a different method of smog removal. (Exhaust after treatment) I never noticed any exhaust regeneration on that coach. Interestingly, the 2015 DEF engine which is a 450hp engine vs 360hp on the 08 ISC, is getting better fuel economy and the 42ft coach is heavier than the 40ft 08. And I am running the '15 about 5-8 mph faster, especially on Interstates. Having the tag axle makes the '15 much more stable especially in cross winds and when passing or being passed by 18 wheelers. I had no issues with the 08 engine, and I did run biodiesel in it for several years. I almost always fill up at Pilot/Flying J because I am reasonably certain that those stations do not have old, stale fuel in their tanks.

[manholt]

I use any truck stop that has 18 wheelers filling or parked. Old fuel is something off the past, when it was shipped in barges, hence the term "barge gas"! It was the fuel that was left in the bottom of the barge and sold to stations in the boondocks!

I would be more concerned about the accumulation of water.

I'm going to fill my tank when I leave here next week and then again at 300 miles, hope I get it all changed ASAP. I generally fill up at 500-600 miles, but this time, I guess I was thinking about something else and let it go until the generator stopped. 912 miles!

Carl.

[southwindtrails]

I have a 06 Beaver with a 400 Cat. Anyone have one? If so how about that bio? Does it work good in that engine? I have only had it three month do not know much about them.

[wolfe10]

I have a 06 Beaver with a 400 Cat. Anyone have one? If so how about that bio? Does it work good in that engine? I have only had it three month do not know much about them.

From the Caterpillar Engine Maintenance Handout:

Biodiesel

– Use ASTM D6751 or DIN 51606 specification

• Limited storage life

• Less BTU content (5 – 7%) than regular diesel

• Allowable Blend

– Up to 30% for engines built prior to 1/1/2007

– Engines built on or after 1/1/2007:

» Up to 5% for C7 and C9

» Up to 20% for C13 and C15

[BennieH]

Just got off the phone with Cummins. ISC350 2002 & later Emissions approved are OK.

Here is a link to a brochure from Cummins about Biodiesel in them:

http://cumminsengines.com/brochure-download.aspx?brochureid=84

Here is another document from March 2007:

http://productiongenerators.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Cummins-Biodiesel-stance-Apr-075.pdf

[huling3]

Just got off the phone with Cummins. ISC350 2002 & later Emissions approved are OK.

Here is a link to a brochure from Cummins about Biodiesel in them:

http://cumminsengines.com/brochure-download.aspx?brochureid=84

Here is another document from March 2007:

http://productiongenerators.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Cummins-Biodiesel-stance-Apr-075.pdf

I, also, just got off the phone with Cummins about the use of bio-diesel in the ISC engines, while the emissions were not discussed, I did get an earful about the ISC engines. They are only approved for # 2 diesel. Any Bio will shorten engine life, reduce economy and require more frequent fuel filter changes. B-20 is worse than B-5 by a huge amount. I didn't get into engine size or date of production, just ISC.

[BennieH]

I, also, just got off the phone with Cummins about the use of bio-diesel in the ISC engines, while the emissions were not discussed, I did get an earful about the ISC engines. They are only approved for # 2 diesel. Any Bio will shorten engine life, reduce economy and require more frequent fuel filter changes. B-20 is worse than B-5 by a huge amount. I didn't get into engine size or date of production, just ISC.

Called again and asked for a higher level tech support person. Asked them about all of the conflicting information coming from their website and support personnel. She asked me for my engine serial number and some other information. She said she would research and call me back.

Answer: Not recommended for my engine. B5 blend would fine and if I put B20 in, to make sure it was less than a half tank of the blend into straight #2 diesel. 7% blend is the max for biodiesel in my engine.

You need to call them with your serial number for a good answer regarding your enige. There are ISC engines that B20 will be OK on.

Also check with the coach builder to see if the tank, fuel lines and fittings they supplied will handle B20.

[manholt]

Bennie, It would be useful if we knew what kind of coach and size of engine? Also, answer from the manufacturer!

Carl

[BennieH]

Manholt, 2003 Monaco Camelot, ISC350.

[DaveAtherton]

ISC Engines, Cummins had a good idea but system has been a problem child. Mainly with the CAP's fuel system,

motorhome sitting idle. check valves poppet in the accumulator etc. I had several people say they have around

100,000 miles and like there motorhome. I do not want to down grade engines being a retired mechanic because

we have many members of this forum that have the cummins ISC engines. Our goal with this forum is to help respond

to a member needs the best we possibly can. We all have our different thoughts on various subjects and I do

respect that, but down grade something which another member has, I personally think we should not do. ( this is

my thoughts only). Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechanic

[DaveAtherton]

Great reply, question : Where is there a fuel truck stop or service station that does not handle BIO Fuel.

Answer BIO Fuel is everywhere and now ratio is posted at 15 to 20 %. Sounds like Diesel owners back

In the 60's and 70's from cold states used to blend number 1 fuel with number 2 fuel to prevent damage

to injection pump and injectors. I can just about figure what is going to happen, just like add on's DEF

now we are going to have to buy XYZ gallon of very special oil at $ 25.00 gal to increase the cost per

Fill up. The drill is all about money. Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechanic

[mpierce]

I ran B15 on the last trip with Howes conditioner and anti gel additive. My fuel mileage dropped from 10.05 to 7.9, I didnt notice any power loss. I ran it as low as possible and filled it up near home at my usual stop with straight Diesel, no bio and Power Service Kleen additive .

Strange. I run semi, 130,000 miles per year. I keep track of fuel down to the .01 mpg! Hundredths of a mile per gallon, both electronically and on paper. I have NOT been able to detect any difference between Bio and Non-Bio. Wind, hills, etc make a HUGE difference, a small amount of Bio, NOT.

[jleamont]

mpierce,

I am not sure if it was the fuel, additive or Gremlins. Do you run any additives in your road tractor? I had a bad experience a few years ago with a non-certified Bio Diesel product with a company I was employed at, I am pretty sure that junk is not available at a public pump and if so I would hope their filters stop the goo from entering your tank.

Honestly we run B30 home heating oil at the house in the winter and it works better than straight heating oil, burns hotter and is more efficient. That trip still puzzles me, and the wind wasn’t the issue, I was barely on the pedal rolling like thunder up and down I-95.