RV Industry Death Spiral

[RodgerS]

Below is the link to part 1 in a series of articles that are currently in process at that website.

Several parts are available at this time. 

http://rvdailyreport.com/opinion/opinion-the-rv-industry-death-spiral-part-1/

“Would you just shut up, Gerber! There’s nothing to see here. Move along.”

Rodger S. 

[lmsooter]

Interesting article.  Will be interesting to read the additional ones.

 

[rsbilledwards]

Roger,

I read all five articles, sad but true. It is amazing how these folks expect to survive and how many others are willing to put up with these attitudes and lack of service.

Thanks for posting this.

Bill Edwards

 

[manholt]

Nice to see the truth in writing, about time!  Thank you.

Carl

[RodgerS]

This is, in effect, a comprehensive and complex public outing of the industry. 

The industry relies on a highly effective and aggressive promotion, across many varied sources of RV information, of an unrealistic dream and first impressions.

It will now be a lot easier and quicker for new-to-the-industry buyers to inform themselves, pierce the fog, adjust their expectations, and make better decisions. 

 

 

[tbutler]

The series of articles offered so far (have read parts 1-5) are certainly enlightening.  Many of the problems cited have been apparent to anyone who owns an RV.  Others are behind the scenes which highlight things I didn't know.  Many of the cited problems concern trailers which are the low end of the market and more problems could be expected there.  Unfortunately, they are also the introduction to the RV lifestyle for most people.  That is not to say that motor homes don't also have their problems. 

Much of what is cited is related to the need to keep the price point low and this results in low quality and poor support.  From manufacture to dealers, parks and repair facilities, the amount of investment compared to the return on investment is a challenge.  Most RV park owners could probably sell the land the park sets on and walk away with a nice retirement package.  We'd love to have better parks but that also means much higher fees.  No doubt, RV techs should be better trained and better paid but that also means higher repair costs.  It's a you get what you pay for world.  Buy cheap, you buy problems. 

We looked at fifth wheel trailers and doing the math, it was apparent to me that I would also need a dually diesel truck to properly tow the trailer.  If you don't do the math, you make a big mistake.  Yes, dealers should help you with this but as a consumer you are the one who in the end must be responsible for understanding what you are buying and double checking the pitch of the salesman.  The bigger the purchase, the more important to research the product to ensure you fully understand what you are buying.

These articles should be helpful for potential purchasers. 

[RodgerS]

"Many of the cited problems concern trailers which are the low end of the market and more problems could be expected there."

I'm not sure if that matters as to the conclusions.

Recently, on this forum, there was quite a bit written about the problems with an American Dream MH. 

In another forum I recently read extensively about the easily overloaded front axle on the 2016 Newmar Dutch Star. 

I am sure I could easily replace the author's trailer cites with MH cites, with very little effort. 

But, I would agree that the lower end of the market tends to have more problems - those are the type of MHs I worked on

when I helped a rental business for a few months. I have yet to hear many advocates of buying used entry level Thor MHs vs a lot of owners positively advocating used Newmar, Monaco, and Country Coach MHs. 

[wayne77590]

While awaiting repairs in Oregon a few years ago, we were parked with electrical hook-up only along with 20-25 other RV's from pop-ups to very high end motorhomes and everything inbetween. The repair facility had 21 bays and they were full everyday and there was a waiting list.

Glad to see the article but I really wonder if it will make a difference.

[manholt]

Wayne.  People have short term memory.  The Quality control and lack thereof, have been on going for 40+ years and eventually the company's  fail and go Bankrupt, never to be heard from again.  Revcon, Landau, Revco, Apollo, Royal, just a few of class A's gas and diesel.  So, in the long run?  NO !

 

Carl

[RodgerS]

I believe that public exposure of these problems will steadily inform more new RV buyers, who will then be tougher sells...and that will drive change.

If every buyer insisted on a paragraph in their contract where the dealer had to agree that the "living quarters" would be subject to local lemon laws i.e. buy back under certain conditions, the sales of new MHs would come to a halt...change would have to happen. 

 

 

 

 

 

[jleamont]

RodgerS, thank you for posting this. It was about as accurate as we see it oh so often while traveling. I could stand up on a soap box and type for hours about the stuff we have encountered in ONLY 8 years of doing this part time. I will say this....if you own a campground or know someone that does, pass this on.... if they do not have a website or a decent website with site photos I will not go there unless a friend recommended it. I have gotten burned too many times. Funny I have family that owns a campground, never been there and was offered a free site when ever we want to go....still haven't been there. No website not sure if I can even get into their CG let alone squeeze into a site, plus they have a few permanent sites which we avoid at most if not all the time. We stayed down the street and didn't say a word .

 

 

[jleamont]

Ok so one story. Funny none the less.

we were on the road for two days with our last coach 31'class c, long time ago. DW finds a place off of I-95 to stop for the night. I ask here to check the web and tell me what she sees. No website could be found...hmmm. Called no answering machine. We pull up 1/2 hour later it looked like a place from the movie Friday the 13th, should have been our second clue. I was tired so for $10.00 full hook ups we put the money in the envelope none of my info was required, which I thought was strange. I squeeze in, couldn't figure out the site layouts to save my life, all covered in leaves so I see a tower I pull over to it (it's summer and this place is almost empty, clue 3) no lights could hardly see. All I could see was a few abandoned trailers or at least they looked like they were as my headlights cast upon them when I was driving around. I pull up to a tower hop out test it, plug in, connect the sewer hose, empty, something is hitting me on the head, I shine the flashlight up creepy trees covering the top of the coach, (no idea what was hitting me on the head) I drop the flashlight and there are red ants everywhere I ran over a very large hill and they are climbing up the coach. I pull the power, and sewer hose,hop in the drivers seat, throw the coach in drive, entrance marked one way the exit had branches across it and I'm not sure how I got in that place the first time, here comes this person from a trailer that was missing a door, I'm out of here!!!! I could see the highway through the brush, ( I almost drove through them since the entrance was partially grown over) so... we'll here goes hold on....I floor it through the bushes onto the highway hooked a right and down the road I went. Down the road to a car wash I remembered passing just down the street (maybe a mile) when I arrive I wash and put my hose and plug away (yea they were dragging along side of me. Hose off the coach and spent the night at a rest stop off of 95.

Boy I miss that flashlight  and the bush kicked out from under the coach a few feet from the CG. Just in case you were wondering.

Every time we drive down 95 we laugh. Still can't figure out where that place is not that I want to go back.

moral of the story, there are some real shady places out there.

 

[manholt]

Joe.  I think we can all relate to that one..

Rodger.  I'm currently visiting my best friends cousin, who I'm also friend with.  I let him read your posted article, he has never had any kind of RV and his observation was golden.  Whom do the advertisers market and whom do they appeal too?  Not us...our DW's !   That goes for houses, vacations, furniture, cars, RV's, school districts, anything and everything you want to sell, revolves around the woman...she picks it out, you buy it... 

Jim was in charge off Advertising and Marketing for the biggest Hospitals in America for 37 years, now he runs a marketing consultancy for different "Specializing Hospitals"!  So, as long as we have "BLING"...the RV Industry will not change to better products, dealer service or quality control as long as Joe's DW wants a Prevost...and she will get one !  Sorry, Joe,

 

Carl   

[jleamont]

Carl, . Her Prevost will be so old build quality will be superior coupled with that old two stroke Detroit.

[hermanmullins]

Carl,

Your friend is a wiseperson. Bling has never powered an RV, just the sale. When I was Purchasing for an elevator company I made a comment to the President of the company that many of the product were going out damaged in house before going to the job site. 

His remark to me made me very angry. He said the customer got a quality product no matter how much rework had to be done in the field. I told him the field installers should not have to rework what should have been correct in the first place. Herman wasn't too happy with me.

Quality should be number one not an after thought.

Herman 

[RodgerS]

While we are waiting for the last three installments, here is another good read written by an attorney. 

http://livingstingy.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-rv-industrys-dirty-litle-secret.html

 

[jleamont]

Great article!

[obedb]

Depressing!

[manholt]

obedb, Joe.  Your both right...and the articles opening remarks, say's it all...Bling!   Joe's DW has the right idea, perhaps not for the right reason...she want's a Prevost with no slides!  I have to agree.  Rock solid. Same with Kay's MCI and any "Bird" DP.  

[wildebill308]

21 minutes ago, Manholt said:

obedb, Joe.  Your both right...and the articles opening remarks, say's it all...Bling!   Joe's DW has the right idea, perhaps not for the right reason...she want's a Prevost with no slides!  I have to agree.  Rock solid. Same with Kay's MCI and any "Bird" DP.  

If some one gave me a Provost without slides my first stop would be Texas Custom Coach to have slides put in. I can't imagine having a coach with no slides. If TCC did the work it would be better than the original.

Bill

[obedb]

A 45 foot Prevost without slides would be rock solid. I wold not change a thing. Probably have a 500 horse Series 60 also. 

[RodgerS]

Interesting comment from my research on Dutchman about the randomness of competitors PDIs. Sounds about right to me and

that would include I think, the dealer inspections = sounds like the real industry standard. However, I do believe some

competitors are representing otherwise...focusing on the thoroughness (not random) of their inspection as their quality control methodology.  

==========================================

In part 2, Gerber mentioned that Evergreen RV just went out of business.

The building Evergreen made the Lifestyle Luxury 5th in was just purchased by Dutchman who is owned by Keystone. 

"EverGreen RV’s chief financial officer, Joseph Katona III, wrote...the company is ending production because it could not obtain needed financing or credit."

http://www.goshennews.com/news/business/dutchmen-rv-buys-evergreen-rv-s-lifestyles-plant/article_9610271a-5c7a-5999-84db-8744a4e04d97.html

I was pretty sure it had a cash problem. Growth companies often had problems with their cash flow, among other issues. 

Interestingly Dutchman said "The major improvements to our manufacturing process and quality that we have made over the past 24 months are really paying off." Since this is a very general statement I went up to their website to learn more. I found this comment in one of the brochures "_{At Dutchmen, quality is our standard. Every single Dutchmen RV that comes off the line receives its own pre-delivery inspection. Typically, a competitor performs random inspections, meaning you won’t nd this commitment to quality anywhere else. "}

 

[manholt]

Quote

 

Jayco is now owned by Thor !  There was one thing that I thought was odd with the last article, OK two.  Where do you find a brand new trailer, even 5 years ago, for $10,000?  No real mention about Class A's gas or DP !

Carl

[RodgerS]

Carl: could be a very old example? I think the example is spot on and relevant even if the new price was double...the issue really being focused on the severe loss in value due to water damage. I have read quite a few posts in various forums where inexperienced owners bought water damaged RVs ASSUMING they could fix it easily and it would not be expensive...and later went into shock once they started taking things apart and getting cost quotes.

Over in Gerber land, he wonders what happened to some RVs that have seemingly disappeared...many are located in my town.  I know of about a dozen that appear to be permanently parked and abandoned on the owner's property, within walking distance of my house...I have no idea what it costs to recycle them, but probably more than a typical trip to the local dump costs. 

[jleamont]

I was thinking about the scrap value to recycle a trailer RV. Since its mostly wood there really isn't any value in that approach. Pay to remove it sounds more realistic. That could be why you see so many around, up in these parts you have to be careful where you book a site, most "Campgrounds" or "Resort Campgrounds" are trailer parks trying to earn some extra cash. You will find these old trailers decaying into the landscape, not my idea of a fun packed weekend with the family. Like I mentioned above, unless the web site tells me otherwise stay clear.......! Oh yea, almost forgot to mention, the term "Beach House" up here is also used loosely, go to watch out for that also....

"Beach House" = Old camper trailer in a trailer park 10 miles from the actual Beach, for photos watch an episode of COPS!