Trouble Starting Engine

[akadeadeye]

We are traveling in Colorado.  I turn switch to start engine.  Nothing.  At all.  I turn again.  Nothing.

I return the switch to vertical and turn again.  It starts.  I am concerned that some relay or solenoid is about to die.  All battery connections are clean and tight. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Don

[tcolburn]

Hmm. Ignition switch?

--Tim C.

[wildebill308]

Are you geting the dash lights and warning buzzers? Have you tried to use the switch to tie the batteries together when you try to start? How old are your start battery's?

Bill

[akadeadeye]

55 minutes ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

Are you geting the dash lights and warning buzzers? Have you tried to use the switch to tie the batteries together when you try to start? How old are your start battery's?

Bill

Yes, getting dash lights and buzzers.  Used the battery boost once.  It started.  Did not use it another time.  No start.  Chassis and Coach batteries are about 9 months old.

 

Don

[akadeadeye]

3 minutes ago, akadeadeye said:

Yes, getting dash lights and buzzers.  Used the battery boost once.  It started.  Did not use it another time.  No start.  Chassis and Coach batteries are about 9 months old.

 

Don

Correction.  The second time I did not use battery boost it did eventually start after trying three times.

[desertdeals69]

I would check the ignition relay.  I had similar symptoms and it was the relay.  Be sure to replace with a continuous duty one. 

[wolfe10]

To expand further, because of the many loads that run with the ignition on (engine, lights, dash HVAC fan, etc) the ignition switch is just used to close the IGNITION SOLENOID/IGNITION RELAY.

And as desertdeals690 pointed out, these solenoid/relays need to be constant duty, not intermittent duty. The two look the same, but are NOT the same.

[dickandlois]

2 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

To expand further, because of the many loads that run with the ignition on (engine, lights, dash HVAC fan, etc) the ignition switch is just used to close the IGNITION SOLENOID/IGNITION RELAY.

And as desertdeals690 pointed out, these solenoid/relays need to be constant duty, not intermittent duty. The two look the same, but are NOT the same.

Indeed, The Solenoid for the ignition circuit that when in the key is in run position runs a number of items and is a continuous duty unit. The Relay in the start position supplies high current to the starter solenoid only when the key is in the Start position and is a intermittent device. 

When you say nothing, do items like the blower motor, turn signals or the fuel lift pump Run(only about 30 seconds if the engine does not start)? Then when in the start position can or do you hear a relay clicking in the back of the coach, ether in a panel area / location or near the starter motor. If you have a clicking sound at the starter, then it could be a starter relay issue or the starter solenoid that is mounted directly to the starter motor. No click or noise from the start relay, then a bad relay or connection at the low voltage connections.The small wires, One for 12 volts and the other is a ground. The big wire goes to the batteries and the other to the starter.

Rich.

[wildebill308]

Just as clarification, when you turn the key do you wait for the "wait to start" light to go out or do you go right to the start position? 

Have you checked with a meter that your start batteries are at full charge?

Bill

[Lenp]

Check your ground connection(s) as well as the battery connections.

[hermanmullins]

Quick check on the solenoids. Turn on the Ignition key and check for power on both large lugs on the solenoid. 12 volts plus on each = solenoid good. 12 volts only on one side = bad solenoid A starting place for me that works.

Herman

 

[akadeadeye]

Thanks for all of the suggestions.  Got back from our Colorado trip and took it to the shop.  The tech and Spartan have determined it is a defective TCM (Transmission Control Module).  Apparently the TCM has to give its OK before the engine will start.

Bad news is this part is back-ordered for 40 days.  At least, so far, I can start it by first turning the key to the right first position, wait for the engine light to go out, then back to vertical, then all the way to the right without pausing, and it starts.  Hope that lasts for 40 more days.

Don

[dickandlois]

Don, Just got to ask if they checked ALL the data cable connections for the J1939 system. If they get contaminated the signal gets noisy and things go south fast. I know of a post or 2 where there was a defective cable / connection between the ECM and TCM that caused a similar problem.

Rich. 

[akadeadeye]

Rich.  I will ask them.  Right now we are waiting on delivery of the TCM, so won't know for certain if that is the culprit until next week.  They found one that needs programming from Allison and we should have it next week instead of the 40 day backlog with Spartan.

 

Don

[hermanmullins]

Aka,

A friend of mine had his TCM go out on him. Butch found a gentleman in Lewisville Texas that works from his home. He is certified by Allison.  He reworked the ECM and it now works like a charm. Butch's coach is a 1995 Foretravel. If it would help I can get his name and number.

Herman 

[wolfe10]

Here is contact information on the guy Herman is referring to:

 

Allison ECU and shift pad repair:

John Kopalek.

866 439 9779 

http://www.transmissioninstruments.com/

[akadeadeye]

Herman and Brett.  Thanks.  I will contact him if need be.  Much appreciated.

 

Don