hayesfamily

Propane hummmmm, what would be the cost of conversion?

Forgive me for taking your post apart, I just want to comment on the right stuff. So i say all this to say, everything you said is right, but manufactures cant keep up with the new mandates fast enough and they are making changes that untimely hurt the consumer. Like, a hotter engine burns fuel better so we stick a 205 deg T stat in it and let it run hotter (GM). So when there is a failure the window of catastrophe is minutes because by the time you realize you overheated, your aluminum heads on an iron block just cracked - water pump failure occurs and once you drop a valve seat you just bought a new motor. ALL IN THE NAME OF EMISSIONS! So who ends up paying for the change? Ford and GM were sweating like a one leg man in an *** kicking contest - AND begged the Reagan Administration to please change the mandates because they KNEW they couldn't make a motor cheap enough that consumers could afford that would meet the requirements. They did lower it some but then came Clinton and Al Gore (who invented the Internet) began the process for raising light-truck fuel economy standards and that was the END OF ENDS. The Persian Gulf reports were in and WE HAVE TO CUT OIL DEPENDENCY shouted the Clinton administration. Had it not filibustered in the Senate i believe, fuel-economy standards for cars and light trucks would have shotup 40 percent over a decade and the average cost of a small non luxury Ford Escort would have been $25,000 because they couldn't engineer a motor to meet that demand over that little bit of time. Guess what - HELLO Ethanol! and we been screwed sense! Cause the truth be told, its been in our gas sense the 80.

There is never a dull moment in the EPA ... I wonder if everyone that works there is renamed Walter Peck. (Only true Syfy fans will get that one.) Anyway they can destroy the consumers pocket they do. I mean, lets face it, manufacturers wont see the brunt of it - WE do in costly repairs!

ISPJS ... if it's not an invasion of your privacy I would like to ask where were you when you got searched with the dog? I've heard of things happening on I-40 what checks to make sure you aren't smuggling illegals but what prompted somebody to bring a dog on board? I probably would have said no and called my lawyer.

I'll give you something better than that, you know that big silver trucks that deliver the fuel? A few years ago while I was in college I work for Petro oil company which is a subsidiary of Star Gas in New York City and Long Island and I had the opportunity to work with the guys that were on the trucks. Even though I worked in a building during customer service I had an opportunity to ride with some of these guys. And I knew back in the late 90s early 2000s that ethanol was bad when those trucks had to come back and be washed and rinsed on the inside with real gasoline because of the corrosive nature of ethanol. This was back during the days where ethanol was only 5%. The greatest concern I have with ethanol is it's lack of power producing punch. It does not contain any BTUs there for it's about as useless as water, and the crazy part is NASCAR is now all E15 so can you imagine how many Motors they ended up scrapping because of that crap running through them. They say that it burns cleaner but the government also said that diesel fuel with less than 15 parts per million of sulfur would burn cleaner, yet now they're requiring diesel exhaust fluid because it didn't burn clean enough. These people making these decisions probably thought that Anna Nicole Smith married for love ... so we were doomed from the beginning when they started making these ridiculous claims about our gasoline. And I would say that this would be reason for me to switch over to a diesel but let's just face it, how much damage is 15 parts per million or less sulfur is any better? How many seals and corroded tanks are out there now because engines were not designed to run with a fuel that was less lubricating? I remember when diesel fuel what's the cheapest thing you can get at a gas pump and now it cost as much if not more than mid-grade gasoline almost as much as premium 93 octane. I have an ism that I would like to say but it would probably get me banned from the post ...

Joe ... All that I wrote and you pick that lol! Keonisms .... Am I really that bad?

Yeah that's kind of sort of the way I'm thinking. This is a video of what I did to bypass the main tank in general. Long story short, was on our way to Delaware and it was hot as two rats bumping uglies in a wool sock, so I had to come up with something that was going to allow me to run those air conditioning units while I was trying to figure out this whole fuel delivery problem. So I bought a gas tank and ran a line over to the fuel pump from a 5-gallon gas can modified for my use and I was able to get about 8 hours out of 5 gallons running both units. Of course I didn't need 8 hours to go from Baltimore over to Rehobeth Beach but never the less it worked out well. It even worked out well going down to Florida just this past month I just had to make sure I kept the 5-gallon topped off. What I'm going to do tomorrow is feel that same 5 gallons up with about a gallon of fuel and do what you said, make sure that I have good gas sitting in the carburetor and the fuel pump so I don't end up having to replace that again.

The golden rule in my house and the coach is what goes on in here stays in here and that goes for who is packin what. I typically wont carry walking around the resort or a campground where families are. I mean, lets face it, if i felt it was that bad I would not go to the campground. When I go shopping, to the bank in town, or where I have to carry cash, different ball game. I guess it kind of like state parks saying no alcohol, if it is in your coach and not in public its fair game.

Step one - dont be nervous, we all been there and it just kills the fun. Step Two - turn it on and run down the road, we all do it. Be careful, make sure you dont run the tank less than what the genny needs to run cause if its a diesel you may have to bleed lines if you run it out but other than that --- proceed to step three Step Three - ENJOY ENJOY and if your ever in the Mid Atlantic region, shoot a message out there are a few folks that will hang out with ya and show you where the good eats are!

I typically carry a handgun, .40 S&W or a .357 Magnum if I am in some places. I think a shotgun sometimes is a bit much and my goal is to stop someone once they are in the coach - which we are talking about protecting a 35x8 foot box. My concern is the liability --- maybe someone can chime in on this or maybe someone already has. If the campground states ABSOLUTELY no firearms is that just absolving their liability should I have to introduce someone to the sheriff or is that potentially put us as gun owners and carriers at risk of the sued by the campground?

So ... anyone who knows me can tell you that I think the government lies and lies again and couldn't tell the truth if the Holy Ghost made them. Thats said, I decided to take apart my carburetor in the genny and not to my surprise, i probably will be purchasing a new one next season. Now, Yall Diesel owners dont have this issue to worry about however, feel free to chime in because I am sure youhave dealt with it at somepoint. Many know I have had genny problems sense about April and I managed to work through most of them because whoever serviced the genny seemed to do 1 thing right and that was put a decent Mobil 1 oil filter on it. The BIGGER issue with this fuel I traced back to a line that appears to be cracked above the sender, and in certain conditions allows air to come in thus causing the genny to starve for fuel. I thought the pick up line on the sender was short, as Joe and I talk about my issues and this seemed to be something that happens at times but - I am well under a ½ tanks and the genny is running. So, I took the hose from the chassis to the fuel pump (along my chassis is a metal hose and then another rubber hose into the sender) and the carburetor to a trusted friend who is a marine mechanic. Milton took a look at both the hose and the carb and determined that the damage from the "Ethanol" has taken toll on the lines AND gummed the jet in the carb. The plastic float is starting to become gummy and when he cut the hose open he could see where the brittleness came from ethanol. Prior to me taking my carb and hose to Milton he asked me to bring a few gallons of gas from my tank so he could examine it a bit closer. One of the things he found was a presence of water in my fuel tank ... how he figured that out I dont know but he said it was there. ANYONE who took high school chemistry of Chem 101 knows that anything Alcohol is a SOLVENT therefore it will do what it says it will do. I am sure All of us who have gas coaches in the mid Atlantic have ethanol in our tanks sitting over the winter so unless treated (if thats even possible) we have dissolved deposits in our tanks as well as water because of Phase Separation; especially if you traveled to states like Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, and Texas who all have ethanol free gas stations and or pumps labelled ethanol free. In my infinite wisdom I filled up with non ethanol and created a potential problem - but I saw 12 miles vs 8 to the gallon pulling a 3500lb car ---HUMMMMMM wonder why? I am not worried about the V10 per sae cause even in 1999 fuel-injected vehicles were designed with stainless steel lines and fittings, modern coatings on cast parts, and plastic parts and tanks that are ethanol-proof so the main engine has no issues --- and the fill hose only sees the gas for seconds until the next fuel fill - not really a problem at least for now ... Lets get back top the genny, my coach spent 2014 - 2016 winters in Walden NY, kinda upstate but not NY City. It sat from The Summer of 2014 until I bought it in October 2016 - and I wasnt aware of that until I did some odometer math and my issues started to make sense. The Ethanol absorbed some of the water but I honestly believe i had a lower separation and a highly corrosive mix of water and ethanol - and when the previous owner ran the genny over the 18 months it sat, he sucked oxidized sour gas into that fuel line and it SAT ... eating away at the rubber compound. My carb is shot to who ha because that corrosive mix has eaten the inside of it and soon that will completely fail. So, if you are having genny issues (Specifically fuel Related) , and they are reoccurring every few years, I suggest 2 things, and I am still experimenting to see if this is possible ... 1. If you live in states that allowed NON ethanol gas (Maryland Banned it) pay the extra .70 a gallon as it will save you in the long run 2. If you can, consider a way to put a separate tank in your coach specifically for the genny. I am thinking about taking the spare out and ditching it for a 30 gallon gas tank for the genny - not sure how i am going to do it. 3. Think about putting a Y valve between the gas line on the main tank and a separate tank for the genny, will give you the ability to run a fuel that has an phase separation fighter for when the genny will sit for a bit. It keeps "good" gas in the lines and in the carb. 4. When replacing genny fuel lines skip the local advance auto ... buy a hose that is Polytetrafluoroethylene (P.T.F.E) lined which is teflon lined hose. Its expensive but so is a motorhome! 5. Be proactive ... dont wait til there is a problem to fix it,. Use some type of stabilizer, i personally have 15 bottles of Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner on hand. It goes in when a. I fill up headed to the campground where the coach will/may sit for a week or more b. When i fill up and its going in the driveway for a few weeks until our next adventure c. if I am doing a long haul (Over 500 miles) I will drop some in so it at the last fill up before I hit the camp ground, and the last fill before I get home. I know I can not be the ONLY person with these issues so chime in if you have suggestion and or problems.

Question ... Not really. Believe it, yes. I am if not the baby, close to the baby of the bunch at 38 years old and there may be a few people between me and JLeamont ... but once you get to him, and my wife for that matter and close to 50, (forever 29 in my eyes) the numbers start to get closer but I believe the biggest density of the membership hovers around 70 years of age.

Umm humm ... Talking to the DW as we speak.

Not sure if the info was updated on this post but the Edge IS NOT towable 4 down.

Let me apologize again for me the new guy, there are some things I don't no when it comes to the financials from past years. Earlier in this thread way back around page 2 or 3 somewhere it was stated that we are not in financial dire distress or has that changed? Whether FMCA is for-profit or nonprofit somebody is getting paid to do a job. 100% of our money is not going into a charitable cause or into our membership benefits, some of that money is allocated to salaries cuz that's just the way business works. So we can call it whatever kind of profit we want, the bottom line is there only two kinds of businesses in the world ones that are profitable and ones that are not. So somebody somewhere is making some money and trying to keep a job or if it wouldn't be a great humongous push to change the name and involve towables. If you don't agree with my statement that's fine we can agree to disagree. As for chapter officers a greens of vote however their members tell them, unless the membership is going behind closed doors with them or is right there when they write it on the ballot and lick the stair nobody knows for sure. My point behind making a statement about the chapters has everything to do with the lack of participation from various chapters on our forums. Let me Give an example so you'll understand what I need. This Area chapter in my neck of the woods which I tried to join which by the way, nobody ever called me back ... I know some people there personally and he admitted that he really has no idea or understanding what's going on other than the fact that the chapter gurus or whoever is running it said that this was a good idea that's the way they should vote. That said I have a sneaky suspicion that the board that is pushing for towables is banking on the ignorance of a lot of our members that do not participate in the forums to hear the argument. It doesn't make it right or wrong but I'm entitled to believe that and quite frankly, so do a lot of other people. You can't discount that because that's not your feeling. Lastly, there's not a company in the world that does exactly what their stockholders once or their members once because they will quickly tell you if they're going to vote in the "best interest" of the organization whether is or it isn't. There's a little building in Washington DC that shaped like a dome that houses people that do that all the time ... this is really no different. At this stage of the game the only thing we can do is hope and pray that the vote is not miscounted, did there is no issues and that there is some honesty among the ranks and we move on. If the vote passes decisions will have to be made across the board, if it doesn't guess what, decisions still have to be made.

Bill, Being the new guy it's obvious that I can't comment on past rallies and past magazines and past stuff. But you said something very relevant which makes me believe that you're absolutely correct. "Management is SO CONFIDENT" Being a corporate Refugee, one of the things that I have experienced in the world of corporate America or anything with the corporate structure, whatever corporate thinks is best, wants to do, or feels is necessary to do ... THEY WILL DO. They will lie to stockholders (ENRON) they will take risks against wise counsels advice and the advice of the general employee population to a point where it becomes dangerous and no way to return back to being profitable (MBNA) and they will do anything to protect upper level management pockets for years to come. That being said I think that it is overly obvious that the majority of people in the forums are really not happy about towables, not necessarily the towable itself but the idea of towables being part of a motorhome Club. What really scares me is the vast amounts of people that are not in the forums that are members of various chapters. Those chapter officers who are willing to do whatever management says for whatever political gain there maybe can sway votes that we don't see. What scares me even more is the information that they have is probably skewed because they are not on the form hearing the pros and cons. So your corporate structure is going to lie about money and say we're going broke and uninformed people are going to do whatever they can to save the oval, we've already witnessed some risk-taking from FMCA that all of a sudden nobody wants to talk about to the tune of several hundreds of thousands of ddollar; the vast majority is okay because nobody's been prosecuted, and no matter how you look at it many people who have said it are absolutely correct, the fix is in, it was already decided several years ago. So nobody can say that it wasn't done with formality they mail out a ballot which let's be frank and honest, absolutely nobody trust but the people who want towables. I think more people would have had faith in the board and in the system if an independent company actually tallied the voting and certified it correct. It would have been done electronic and we would have been able to see real-time results but they opted not to do that and I'm gas it was because of the "cost" ... which I'm not dumb by any means, if you can print an addition like a card in an envelope then it was affordable to do with an outside company. At this point there are several things that can be done because hashing it out over and over is worse than beating a dead horse ... 1. We can blame the Russians ... And we see where that is going. 2. We can create chapters with the premise that it is motorhome only and hope we don't get sued for discrimination 3. We walk away from the benefits of FMCA and do like the rest of the population that I've seen in Parks, proudly display the oval but have no real affiliation anymore other than conversation on the forms with our friends. 4. If by chance by some miracle towable RVs get voted down we can all go back to enjoying FMCA for what it was until the next time they come up with a scheme for everybody to get cheesed off.

That sounds awesome. We typically hit Disney about once a year with the kids and I have a monthly sabbatical where I may go for a weekend every single month. Disneyland of course is a little different than Disney World but I'm assuming that they are some things that are the same so if you've never been the only thing I'll tell you is plan plan plan. The more you can get reserved the better because it can get a little crowded and a little hectic but other than that make sure you enjoy every piece of scenery they have because they really know how to do it right.

Wow ... WHAT A DIFFERNCE 1 YEAR MAKES. This time last year we were in negotiations for Coach. A year later and we are 18 days away from being in each other's face in a motorhome for 12 long days in the happiest place on earth. I just want to thank everybody in this thread they guided us through the process and special thanks to Joe who is been an awesome mentor helping me fix the stuff that broke along the way and keeping me from going insane. Will post pics of Disney in a few weeks.

I really just had a moment to read through the original post and there are several things that I want to point out that really concern me. Hubby and I are fairly new to FMCA and you're confused. I'm confused as to how you can be confused when the form specifically talks about class A Class B and Class C coaches. The Forum even has sections for Towing a car behind one of those type Vehicles. Never once does it ever mention anything about the fifth wheels, travel trailers, boats, jet skis, airstreams, Montana's, teardrops, or anything else where the living quarters is not accessible from the driver's seat. There is absolutely no way whatsoever you missed that. Then you say you got the magazine at and within a matter of a page or two you probably should have realized nothing pertains to anything you own. But to further insult everyone you say that you saw the voter's card but you're not going to return it. That to me is suspect because if you spent your money in an organization that you can't get back then why not vote for towables since they let you get that far anyway so you say. I'm not the type of person that goes out and makes accusations that I can't prove but Ray Charles himself can see that none of what you're saying makes sense. I apologize if you feel that everyone who owns a Class A B or C has their nose in the air but that comment alone tells me that you don't get out very much because we are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. And when it comes down to helping somebody who has a fifth wheel or something like that chances are one of us will be better equipped to at least give you a place to stay for a couple of hours then folks in your similar situation. Furthermore, we are not making fun of anybody when we talk about risk at events with people trying to back in towables or let me be more specific, trailers. 99% of us are talking from real experience that we watched in campgrounds and it's not to pick on anybody it's just the reality of the Beast. If this really indeed is a hoax from the powers to be or somebody just being funny the most that you've done is given a few people some laughs and make yourself looked very suspect. The people on this forum are not dumb, everything from doctors lawyers down to domestic engineers participate here. I don't think any of us fell off the turnip truck yesterday and it probably is best that you make a request to FMCA if indeed you really did join, and ask them to refund your money because you're definitely grossly misinformed about what you uoined. I just cannot understand how you got that far in the process not knowing that FMCA ( family motor coach association) wasnt for trailers.

Me, I have NEVER owned a TT or 5th Wheel. My first experience as an owner was a Class A Coach and I joined FMCA for the knowledge base and the fact that there was someone who specialized in what I have.

So, I have had the Brake Buddy Stealth installed now for a bit over 45 days and about 600 miles give or take. I will honestly say it wasn't a "Simple" install as they make it seem but the investment in a FIXED non portable unit was well worth the money. This system uses a brake controller to trigger braking, a signal sent to a box in my trunk that yanks a cable attached to my brake peddle thus applying the bakes. There is a small vacuum attached to my Master Cylinder line that assists with the booster and the 12V pin in my 7 pin connector provides power to the vacuum and the trickle charger on the battery. Come to find out the system is "proportional". It is triggered my inertia however, if I slam on brakes, it will apply the same pressure to my toad brake UP TO what ever I set the controller. Mine is currently set to yank the brake up to a max of 80% There is a sensitivity setting that I have on the side of the controller that adjusts how sensitive the braking has to be before it triggers a braking event in the toad. On a scare of 1-7 I have mine at 6. So, if I cam coming to a stop sign from 25MPH on flat land, I may not even trigger the system as the coach braking will be enough to safely stop the load. If that 25MPH is coming down a hill, a baking event will occur and the brakes on the Toad will apply with the same force as I am on the coach. HOW IT DOES THIS OR KNOWS --- I haven't figured it out. Maybe there its a voltage thing that happens the harder you brake IDK but a camera in the drivers seat of the toad verified everything I am saying. So, I am super SHOCKED and surprised at the performance of this system. Lots of people sent me messages warning me of various things and while installing I keeping in contact with a bud in PA who talked me through various things. WE looked at all the possibility and I can honestly say the research paid off. The BRAKE WORKS AND --- the break away is built into the harness on the toad. No extra wires or lines. IN the event of a breakaway the controller emits this GOD AWFUL sound that says something is wrong. So, If you are in the market for a Sup Brake that works as advertised this is one to look at. At a cost right around $1000.00 it aint bad. Shop around as I got it for 860.00 and it was WELL WORTH IT!

Since my last comment I have had the unfortunate task of callings GS on 2 occasions and both scared me a bit. They were both Lock outs on the Toad and I used the APP on android phone to tell them my location and get numbers to call. The first time I talked to the Rep, told them I was in Atlanta, explained where I was and gave the address (Actually Stone Mountain ) but never the less I gave them address, coordinates and zip, They sent the lock smith to my home address and said it was my fault! OH wait - They couldnt fine me in the system either. The second time the DW locked keys in the Toad at the house and the app gave them an address what didn't exist, but after talking to the lock guy he figured out where we were. He unlocked the running car and life was fine. I say that to say GS has its issues but for $79 a year its almost better than nothing. It has paid for itself a few times over and I dont complain ... but my concern is what if I have an issues with the Coach! I need them to get that right the first time especially with us starting to actually travel unfamiliar roads, new Towns, and in places where cell coverage is minimal. I am actually considering after my 2 years to open a CC just for coach emergencies and be done with towing services all together. If I can make a phone call and get the internet, I can get a tow truck to come out faster if I am paying cash or card quicker than GS could get them with all the negotiations and price stuff they deal with. When you think about it, is it really gonna cost me $3000 for a quick tow to a truck stop or campground? If I have the Jeep, as long as I can get to a parts store or Ford dealer I can get parts or best yet, someone can fix it rather quick at a truck stop and I am back on my way. At $250 lets say an hour and $5 a mile, if it takes 3 hours and 10 miles your looking at $800 + repair. IF you have to do this maybe once every 10 years (Hope Never) that comes out cheaper than the $150 a year for Coach Net or AAA + cost of the repair. Ok, so they offer lock out service, A Lock Smith for a simple lock out is $50 if your have cash If you need a tire change or a Tire in most cases, your paying for the tire ANYway so --- GS AAA and Coach Net are just putting you in touch with a local guy. Its almost as bad as Auto insurance, you end up paying into this large pot so when something happens you have money to cover, but when it comes to getting coverage or filing a claim, they want to offer and pay minimal but your pocket is taxed the Maximum.

IM just seeing this ... if you still need Pics Private message me and I will send you what ever you need.

I have a gas coach so I wanted to install a system that was permanent as we bought a Jeep Liberty specifically to flat tow. With out modifying the Coach the only systems available to us were mechanical quasi proportional braking systems. WE chose the Brake Buddy Stealth and would keep that system even if we got a diesel coach. It just works. I may switch to an Air Force One if i got rid of the Liberty but ... again that is because I am going to have to do an install and might as well go full proportional. My breaking performance is awesome. I had the unfortunate privilege of a jack a$$ jumping in front of me and I was confident overly surprised at how it completely took the weight of that jeep off of the coach and I was actually able to stop and it wasn't necessarily a panic situation. I read a lot of reviews on the portable systems and they are nice but is so much nicer not to have to keep up with the unit. Plug and go not to mention once installed and tested you're not having to second-guess whether it's in right or whether you make sure it was sitting up against the seat. You don't have to worry about is the breakaway connected because in my system the breakaway is built into the plug. Just something to look at. I did an extensive write up on it feel free to read through it an comment.

I just did a write up on the brake buddy stealth which is also a permanent installed unit. My write up is on a 2002 Jeep Liberty but I got to be honest with you after using the system going down the road I can honestly say I would pretty much recommended on anything that does not have the ability to provide full proportional breaking If you get a minute scroll down and kind of look at my installation notes, it's not the most difficult in the world to install however I do want to caution that If it is installed by a professional try to get a flat rate. My breaking performance is awesome. I had the unfortunate privilege of a jack a$$ jumping in front of me and I was confident overly surprised at how it completely took the weight of that jeep off of the coach and I was actually able to stop and it wasn't necessarily a panic situation. I read a lot of reviews on the portable systems and they are nice but is so much nicer not to have to keep up with the unit. Plug and go not to mention once installed and tested you're not having to second-guess whether it's in right or whether you make sure it was sitting up against the seat. You don't have to worry about is the breakaway connected because in my system the breakaway is built into the plug. Just something to look at