Allowing Towables Vote At Indianapolis In July

[mweiner]

If you're apathetic about the vote  you will have nothing to complain about later". 

Just think about that once this is all done .  You'll have no one to blame  EXCEPT yourself.  So, if  this issue is important to you, vote. 

 

[aztec7fan]

One thing that has only been touched on briefly is, what is our definition of what will be allowed (if the vote is YES)?  We keep saying "towables", but I believe the wording is "recreational vehicles".  does this include slide-in truck campers, people with tents, people with a minivan and a mattress in back, a "tiny home", a houseboat, ????.

What will/will not be allowed as a qualifying RV?

[mweiner]

2 hours ago, aztec7fan said:

One thing that has only been touched on briefly is, what is our definition of what will be allowed (if the vote is YES)?  We keep saying "towables", but I believe the wording is "recreational vehicles".  does this include slide-in truck campers, people with tents, people with a minivan and a mattress in back, a "tiny home", a houseboat, ????.

What will/will not be allowed as a qualifying RV?

First, I certainly hope you can see that the vehicle in my picture below is not a "minivan".😁😁😁.  

Also, towables are not "towed vehicles" aka "toads". Toads are part of the motor home association already. 

Second, I agree with you that truck campers, tents, SUV'S with a mattress in the back are not appropriate to qualify as a towables.. 

 

[manholt]

smsdavies.  One question.  If your 4 kids are attending seminars "school" at rallies and Indy was your first rally...how can that be?

MWeimer.  Your coach is a Van Conversion aka Class "B"!  Towables, are what the term implies...being towed by some movable means!

The only difference between a Towable and a Coach, is the engine/transmission.  Truck slide in campers (regardless of cost), boats, etc was deemed unacceptable in the definition amendment that we passed.

"old establishment, representative"....WOW!  For your information !  Non of us get paid, I get no $$$ compensation for traveling all over the lower 48 every year representing YOU !  Since everything the Governance does, we represent every member of FMCA, not just the chapter we belong to! 

Carl C.

[mweiner]

5 hours ago, manholt said:

smsdavies.  One question.  If your 4 kids are attending seminars "school" at rallies and Indy was your first rally...how can that be?

MWeimer.  Your coach is a Van Conversion aka Class "B"!  Towables, are what the term implies...being towed by some movable means!

The only difference between a Towable and a Coach, is the engine/transmission.  Truck slide in campers (regardless of cost), boats, etc was deemed unacceptable in the definition amendment that we passed.

"old establishment, representative"....WOW!  For your information !  Non of us get paid, I get no $$$ compensation for traveling all over the lower 48 every year representing YOU !  Since everything the Governance does, we represent every member of FMCA, not just the chapter we belong to! 

Carl C.

Carl,  interesting, so an amendment did exclude these types of vehicles, which would also include a minivan with a bed! 

"The only difference between a Towable and a Coach, is the engine/transmission.  Truck slide in campers (regardless of cost), boats, etc was deemed unacceptable in the definition amendment that we passed."

My comment about my van was a rethorical question for Chris.  I know that my van is a small motor home. 

I'm afraid that if you open up the floodgates and let anyone in with whatever towables they have,  trailer, pop-up tent, 5th wheel, teardrop, then how do you defend excluding boats and truck campers...in other words, where does it end?   How about a wagon pulled by a horse? 

Others have said this and I agree, the main focus of the FMCA has been motor homes, Class A , B and C.  Letting all those other groups in will just dilute the club and it's members turning conversations into all sorts of other issues.  I hope everyone knows that. You might as well change the name of the club to the Family Coach Club and leave out the motor...

These other groups have their exclusive clubs.  I have a teardrop trailer and have gone to their rallies, pulling the trailer with my car. They explicitly state that the rally is for teardrop trailers only...they are not kidding...no exceptions.  WHY? They want the focus on one particular thing...we should do the same. 

And, someone else pointed out that even with the many benefits of the FMCA assist and medical emergency , which is a great benefit,  the club has done a very poor job of marketing this feature and could lure more paying members if people knew about it...  including driving your vehicle back .. would the club offer to tow these trailers back for people as well??

That service alone is worth the $60 or more per year.

You can't just offer this to a small segment of the membership..so, if you offer to assist people by driving back their coaches if they're unable to do so, what about their trailers? You either offer it to everyone or you don't offer it at all. 

You think that will happen, I don't see how that can continue.  Now, you have setup an unlevel playing field and people are not going to like that at all. 

Very complicated.   I wonder how many people realize what the implications are for all of these issues. 

[rossboyer]

Since I made the motion, I don't think that those RV's are excluded.  There were amendment motions made to exclude them, but those amendments all failed to pass.

I think you will find that the definition that is to go out with the ballot is "The term “recreation vehicle,” as used herein, is defined as a self-contained wheeled vehicle that includes permanently installed cooking, sleeping and sanitary facilities.”

[dons2346]

10 hours ago, aztec7fan said:

One thing that has only been touched on briefly is, what is our definition of what will be allowed (if the vote is YES)?  We keep saying "towables", but I believe the wording is "recreational vehicles".  does this include slide-in truck campers, people with tents, people with a minivan and a mattress in back, a "tiny home", a houseboat, ????.

What will/will not be allowed as a qualifying RV?

There was a "workshop" held the day before to iron out a preliminary definition of a "recreation vehicle". A rec vehicle  was defined as:

A recreation vehicle is a self contained wheeled vehicle that includes permanently installed cooking, sleeping, and sanitary facilities.

There were questions about tent trailers and pickup slide in campers and it was the opinion that if they were self contained and otherwise fit the description, they would be acceptable. On my way back to the Pacific Northwet, I talked to a tiny house owner in a campground and yes it was self contained! There are tiny houses that are built to RVIA standards. One woman got up and spoke about her not wanting pickup slide in campers or tent trailers. Another gentleman got up and said his son just spent $83,000 on a truck and $63,000 on a slide in camper! All this money was Canadiian funds, not US

The definition that was come up with, in my opinion is very loose and not very good. This definition, as bad as it is, cannot come into effect until the GB meeting in Gillette next summer. It can still be changed but until then, what would happen if someone wanted to join with a boat? There are some trailer boats (Nordic Tug comes to mind) that will set you back $600,000! There is no legal way to keep them from joining.

Another poster brought up the FMCAssist. Good question that most likely hadn't been broached with Seven Corners with reference to towing someone's trailer. Would the 10 year age limit apply and they have to find a driver on their own?

[rfsod48]

Is the 10 year limit a rule? If so many of us including myself will be excluded from this service and lose one of the main reasons I belong to the club. 

[dons2346]

24 minutes ago, rfsod48 said:

Is the 10 year limit a rule? If so many of us including myself will be excluded from this service and lose one of the main reasons I belong to the club. 

The 10 year rule was bought up by Seven Corners because they said the professional drivers didn't want to drive a coach over 10 years old because of a possible "breakdown". Baloney to me but that is their rule..

Now, what Seven Corners will do is allow you to find your own driver to drive your over 10 year old coach and will pay expenses up to the maximum of $5,000. This $5K limit also applies to the cost of having a pro driver deliver your coach. I would much rather have a friend that is knowledgeable drive my coach that someone unknown that drives it like he stole it. Have you ever been on the highway headed to a convention and be passed by the show coaches driving 70-80 plus?

[rossboyer]

Chris Smith replied on another post that Seven Corners has found two professional transport companies that will return your greater than 10 year old coach. 

[LCHammer]

My DH and I have discussed this back and forth.  We like the idea of FMCA being for motorcoach owners.  Attending rallies is informative and instructional for us.  

We went to the Indy rally and had a nice time (our first rally).  We liked looking at all the new coaches on display, and the unique vendor opportunities.  

Our thoughts are this:  if towables are allowed, you'd "muddy" the informative aspect of the rally (how much info does a  trailer owner really need/use?) We owned several trailers through the years and I can honestly say I wouldn't have seen any value in attending a rally with my trailer.  Kids - could be an issue but maybe not.  The one thing I think would draw the families is looking at new coaches (and there goes the pleasant experience of strolling through new coaches...sigh) but entertaining throngs of kids would be a BIG issue.

 The Energized group does a nice job with the handful of kids at rallies now and if the number grows, families will really want on-site activities for kids.  

Lots of planning, but in reality you'd have to really think about how many families would find rallies interesting AND plan a rally as a family destination... I wouldn't have done that...

[jimnorm]

Just another little bit to add: "The only difference between a Towable and a Coach, is the engine/transmission."   This statement is factually untrue. Yes a Motor Coach has an engine and a transmission. A towable doesn't, but there are many additional differences. We have AirBrakes. Automatic levelers, charging systems that connect and disconnect the house and chassis batteries. Generators that are built in. Tires and wheels well outside those found on most any trailer. Steering and suspension issues. Our Coaches are not simply a trailer with an engine. With a 5:1 superiority in numbers how long before a FMCA rally is all about trailers? Think of the vendors we get. How many trailers need a sunshade for the windshield, or a windshield? How many need diesel management systems? We will become a Good Sam Lite. We don't have the financial backing of Camping World.

I do not have an issue with people that have a trailer. My brother had one for years. we camped together. I've said this before and I am not the only one, Until EVERY OWNER OF EVERY MOTORHOME THAT IS NOT AN FMCA MEMBER TURNS US DOWN, WE DON"T HAVE A LACK OF POTENTIAL MEMBERS, WE HAVE A LACK OR SALESMANSHIP OR PRODUCT RECOGNITION.

[dons2346]

[manholt]

Dons.  A variation of a Earth Roamer.  Deep pockets will get you anything!

jimnorman.  I didn't think I had to go into detail...apparently I should have.  There are towables out there in the one million dollar + class, that have most of what you state they don't have.  Talk to a Newell rep...yes, Newell makes Custom 51 to 55 foot, fifth wheel trailers.  Several others do the same.  Then there are horse trailers that will nock your socks off.

[isaaac1]

Ok, just my take on it again, I don't care if the the towable cost $500,000, and the motorhome cost $5,000.  This organization should focus on the interest of motorhome owners, should attempt attract motor home specific vendors to the rallies, should focus seminars on motorhome specific topics.  This is not to say that general RV topics should be off limits, just that the focus should be on the things that are unique to motorhomes.

As to the topic at hand of the vote, my concern is that the membership at large is only seeing one side of this issue in the magazine, where only the party line of we must pass this to survive is being pushed.  The truth is that if the FMCA wants to recruit younger members, the way to do it is to appeal to younger motor coach owners.  There is plenty that can be done to attract these people, but unfortunately little or none of it is being done, just look at the events schedules for an upcoming rally and one can see nearly every line item is focused at the AARP crowd.  This is not to say anything bad about AARP, after all I will be eligible to join in a matter of months.  It is just to say that the younger demographic that the FMCA claims to want to attract are not typically interested in stringing beads together, and playing bingo. 

So what might appeal to younger rally goers, well many of them are going to be new to motorhome ownership, so there is all that care and maintenance stuff, but there are I am sure plenty of RV living tips that would help.  The younger generation today is far more into food than the older generation ever was, but today it is all about exotic, and quality of food.  So maybe something on meal preparation in limited space, cooking more than just burgers on the propane grill, or things that can be done with an induction cook top.  Younger people also want adventure, and adventure camping, or at least the feel of adventure.  They also often live vicariously through the adventures of others, and actively interact using social media and the internet.  Here is another place where the FMCA could reach out, we just had the big convention in Indiana, and for the week of the convention this message board was even more dead than normal.  Something as simple as a few daily updates of what was going on at the convention for all those stuck at home would have went a long way towards giving the younger members a feeling of being included.  These could be on the web site, on an FMCA facebook page, on this message board, etc.

[manholt]

Isaaac1. 

Thank you for not sugar coating it. Even at 74+, I can still remember why I joined FMCA first and not Good Sam...it was all about my coach and like minded folks!  No one had a toad or even thought about it.  The annual convention (no winter or area) had to do about seeing what everyone was driving, new coaches and ideas, to make our journey easier!  Most folks had their kids with them, yes Dad took his vacation around the convention, that's why it's called Family MCA!  There was no texting, internet or high tech devises, so kids found their own things to do during the day and joined in with families for supper and evening entertainment.  The entertainment was off the day, not 40+ years old.

As I see it, the biggest problem of today is the internet.  Grandparents, parents and kids are all on Facebook, Twitter and other Social Media!  They don't have time to interact as a Family unit anymore!   I see so many RV family's driving down the road and the only one not, on a mobile devise, is the driver!

I do agree with you.  Something has got to change within FMCA, before we talk or even think about expanding!

Carl C.

[hermanmullins]

Isaaac1,

FYI, at each and every National Convention there will be an App. for your phone about the Convention. It will announce the activities for the day plus and other goings on. I am sorry to say I have always been tooo busy to look at it but my DW looks at it all the time. She is reminding me all the time about something for that day. 

I see that you are located in SW Louisiana. Are you a member of the Cruzin Cajuns, Romin Catholics or Pelican Travelers? Will you be coming to Texarkana in October for the Six-State Rally?

Herman

[isaaac1]

Herman, an app of events at the convention is a good thing, but I was talking more about a PR effort through online social media to share events with those that could not attend (not that I use the stuff myself, but plenty of people do, I think my last facebook page update was nearly a decade ago). 

As to the rest, I am not a member of any of those chapters yet, though I do plan to look into them, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), our travel schedule is fairly well booked for the rest of the year, I / we will be leaving on our big 3,500+ mile trip for this year in a few days, (I am leaving Monday, and my wife will be flying up to meet me the next Saturday in Wyoming), I did join Safari International a few months back, with intentions of attending their gathering in Lebanon, TN, though it now looks like I may not make that one.  I do plan to be at the Six State Rally, in fact I just registered for it yesterday afternoon, I am not sure if my wife will going with me to it or not, she does not see much on the events list to interest her, and she has a big work project going on here at around that time.

[aztec7fan]

7 hours ago, Isaaac1 said:

They also often live vicariously through the adventures of others, and actively interact using social media and the internet.  Here is another place where the FMCA could reach out, we just had the big convention in Indiana, and for the week of the convention this message board was even more dead than normal.  Something as simple as a few daily updates of what was going on at the convention for all those stuck at home would have went a long way towards giving the younger members a feeling of being included.  These could be on the web site, on an FMCA facebook page, on this message board, etc.

Did you see the videos posted on the Facebook page?  Several people commented that they wish they could have been there 

[jeff753]

7 hours ago, Isaaac1 said:

Ok, just my take on it again, I don't care if the the towable cost $500,000, and the motorhome cost $5,000.  This organization should focus on the interest of motorhome owners, should attempt attract motor home specific vendors to the rallies, should focus seminars on motorhome specific topics.  This is not to say that general RV topics should be off limits, just that the focus should be on the things that are unique to motorhomes.

As to the topic at hand of the vote, my concern is that the membership at large is only seeing one side of this issue in the magazine, where only the party line of we must pass this to survive is being pushed.  The truth is that if the FMCA wants to recruit younger members, the way to do it is to appeal to younger motor coach owners.  There is plenty that can be done to attract these people, but unfortunately little or none of it is being done, just look at the events schedules for an upcoming rally and one can see nearly every line item is focused at the AARP crowd.  This is not to say anything bad about AARP, after all I will be eligible to join in a matter of months.  It is just to say that the younger demographic that the FMCA claims to want to attract are not typically interested in stringing beads together, and playing bingo. 

So what might appeal to younger rally goers, well many of them are going to be new to motorhome ownership, so there is all that care and maintenance stuff, but there are I am sure plenty of RV living tips that would help.  The younger generation today is far more into food than the older generation ever was, but today it is all about exotic, and quality of food.  So maybe something on meal preparation in limited space, cooking more than just burgers on the propane grill, or things that can be done with an induction cook top.  Younger people also want adventure, and adventure camping, or at least the feel of adventure.  They also often live vicariously through the adventures of others, and actively interact using social media and the internet.  Here is another place where the FMCA could reach out, we just had the big convention in Indiana, and for the week of the convention this message board was even more dead than normal.  Something as simple as a few daily updates of what was going on at the convention for all those stuck at home would have went a long way towards giving the younger members a feeling of being included.  These could be on the web site, on an FMCA facebook page, on this message board, etc.

That's a good idea to build inclusion for those members unable to attend. 

We had FMCA staff and some bloggers taking pictures and videos at Indy but I haven't seen much of what they captured yet. FMCA is getting better at social media and videos on line. The ENNERGIZED Group also post active stuff on their Facebook group page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/fmcau60taskforce/

In my prior occupation we would have live feeds from the convention floor so those not there could observe the business of the association. 

[Cookie]

I guess I am one of the 50,000 members who do not belong to a Chapter nor have we ever gone to a Rally (we went to one Good Sam one in 2000).  We now are retired, and travel to and from Palm Springs for three months, and then somewhere else for about a month and a half or so, then return home.  We live in the Pacific Northwest which is the most beautiful place in the country in the summer.  Why go somewhere else.  We may take a few weeks and go to the Coast, but that is about it.  We have 12 grandchildren next door, volunteer at a non-profit for 10 hours each Monday (50 miles away), and we keep plenty busy during the summer.  We enjoy the magazine and all the MOTOR HOME articles in it, and the benefits. 

With that said, in 2019 we are taking a 3-4 month, 8-11,000 mile trip around the country with my daughter, son-in-law and their 12 kids.  Them in a bus towing a trailer, us in our motor home towing a car.  That should be fun.

It was mentioned above that 80% people that poster talked with supported it.  As I understood it, that was a group of reps from the Chapters.  If the numbers posted above that only about one third of the members are members of clubs, that 80% number cannot be used to say that is the percentage of the entire membership who supports the proposal.

Also, that definition of RV is so weak.  Let's keep this the Family MOTOR COACH Association.

Thank you for your time.

 

[wolfe10]

Everyone please be aware, all the Governing Board is approve sending the change out to ALL FMCA members for approval/rejection.

It is up to ALL FMCA members to vote (or quietly accept the vote of others)!

Again, whether for or against, PLEASE VOTE-- FMCA IS YOUR ORGANIZATION.

[jeff753]

On 7/31/2017 at 5:13 AM, hobart said:

At this point in time the important thing is to vote, and urge all members to do the same. Not all may agree but all can agree that not voting is letting someone else make the choice for you.

That's true!  00

[jeff753]

Here's a couple threads from another member 

Had this exchange today with a motor home owner on the Fulltime Families FB group. Their question "What do the motor home owners do for tires?  Do you go for the expensive tires like Michelin or Continental or go with cheap overseas tires?"  I answered join FMCA, they have huge discounts on Michelin and Continental tires. They then asked "What is FMCA?"  This is the problem that FMCA has, if they can't reach motor home owners how are they going to reach the towables?  I don't feel like allowing towables is going to give FMCA the membership boost they think it is.

[jeff753]

And 

Reaching out to the existing motorhome owners who have never heard of FMCA is a solution that would actually increase membership without changing our Founders Focus on Motorhomes. 

Next time you're in a RV park--- find a motorhome driver without a FMCA oval and ask them if they've heard of FMCA.

RVIA reports: "RV shipments for May top 40,000 for the third straight month, staying on record pace". 
Towables are up by 19.8% over 2016 but motorhomes were up 27.5%  
So how many of those 6,163 May 2017 motorhome buyers have heard about FMCA yet?
If we aren't asking eligible members to join then increasing the pool will not fix the perceived problem. It will only dilute the Founders vision. 
Let's go all out on our own recruitment before we vote to enter direct competition with Good Sam/Escapees.