Should FMCA Allow Towable RVs-- Vote NOW

[smithy]

1 hour ago, rpelatt said:

I asked Smithy how they determined the age yesterday in a post above but he apparently hasn't had the time to respond. Perhaps, he will make the time soon, as I feel it is an important piece of information we could all learn from.  I doubt they could look at the date the F number was assigned as they still would not know your age unless given on the app. I am beginning to wonder if they used the average age of those who needed FMC Assist.

There was a member survey done years ago, and that was one of the questions. Don’t have it in front of me, so I don’t recall when it was done.

[manholt]

I don't think it has to do with Assist or age anymore!  I have the same offer thru the Lions, Elks, Masonic and Shriners International.  Since I have traveled Internationally every year and now have Linda with me, each of us have a Assist policy that runs about $500 a year and a medical that's good anywhere for $1,200 a year, all  outside of USA!  Don't miss understand...USA Assist is a great deal for anyone, in any age group, but it has nothing to do with towables in FMCA !

[aztec7fan]

10 hours ago, camarti1 said:

Okay folks, I have a few suggestions which could help FMCA be a motor coach club in the fashion I would like it become.

First, lets update the logo. It looks old and tired, which means others viewing will also feel it is for an older and tired group. The logo needs redesigned to meet the dynamic of today's rving family. Something in color and alive, something that screams to the "family" market come join us, it will be a good time.

Second, start having family rallies which occur during a Friday evening, Saturday, and end on a Sunday. Do face painting, have a petting zoo, hire a local singer to sing songs which are conducive to a family get together, and rent one of those blow up movie screens and have a movie night with an ice cream social. Make it real family outing so every member of the family can enjoy the outing. Of course a few coaches available for a day so everyone can see what is new in the market.

Third, go to rental locations which offer RV rentals and get the word out to them, big time. Many people rent coaches before buying, so get the bug in their ear of all of the benefits FMCA has to offer the coach owner. Look to independent RV sales locations and place flyers out or ask the finance people to include a brochure with the closing of the coach deal. They might not remember what was said right at the moment, but the owner can sit down later and read the benefits of FMCA.

Fourth, stop doing pop-up ads on Facebook. They are not reaching the demographic you are hoping to reach. You want to strategically place ads on TV in the middle of RV shows, such as the ones on Great American Country, or GAC, on Dish Network.  Make sure the ads are after a family purchases a class A coach, and have the ads stress how much more fun it would be to take your new coach to an event in your local area.

Okay, I'll stop for now, as I have an appointment to get to. I would like to make a motion that this vote be tabled until such time other options can be explored by the FMCA committee for expanding its membership, using some of the suggestions brought forward contained here within. Okay, so I know its too late for this now, but the suggestions are worth at least considering

Thanks for your time, it is greatly appreciated.

Good suggestions!  Here's more...

Offer discounts or free night stays to Jellystone Parks (where mostly families with kids stay) when you sign up with FMCA.  Let's work with Jellystone to have FMCA flyers in each office.

How about a 10% discount to Six Flags Amusement parks or other amusement parks.

BTW, in Denver, B&B RV rentals is an FMCA Commercial member.  They have the logo prominently displayed in the window.

[camarti1]

I do think the age thing is important to the health and longevity of the FMCA. If the FMCA doesn't take the time to recognize the aging of its members, then the whole group is in danger of being replaced or merged with other camping groups. I do feel expanding the membership of the FMCA to the younger members and families with children is how the base can grow. The outcome of the towables is still open for vote, but the fastest growing segment of the RV market is the towable market as it is easiest accessible for young families with a desire to camp.  The motorized segment of the business is not growing as fast due to start up costs, which are significantly more expensive then, lets say, a travel trailer.

Average age does play a role as well with the chartered divisions within the FMCA. I spent hours looking at the various clubs and pictures. There are some "clubs" that haven't reported any activity for almost 10 years. Are they being carried on the books for insurance purposes as well? Should some of these smaller groups be merged with another local group to save on cost? What I saw in the pictures were a lot of people having a great time, dancing and making crafts, eating well and celebrating various goals and achievements. What I didn't see were kids, any set up for kids, or the appearance of children based activities. 

Why does age have a bearing on the towable vote? Because this time, it is adding towables as a way to salvage the membership, grow its base, and reduce per member costs. Had someone suggested alternatives, besides adding a completely different demographic group, this whole discussion would be moot. Should the vote be to not add towable members, the base still needs to find a way to expand its membership rosters and include the family members in the word "Family" of the FMCA. 

I am not young, I do not have any children at home any longer, and my grandchildren are married and out of their own. I do have concerns though when I see the aging of a group and no real plans of succession for its members and families. Adding or denying towables is the question, but the bigger question is, whether or not towables are added, how does the FMCA grow its member base to stay relevant in today's and tomorrow's arena? If the motor coach base does not grow, it will become secondary to the towable arena. The FMCA needs to change how it views itself and how it wants its membership to expand, otherwise, you have yourself a non planned obsolescence coming at you faster then you realize. 

 

[isaaac1]

I agree with the others the FMCA needs younger members, the problem is younger in this case can mean people my age,  and I will be eligible to join AARP next year. 

As I mentioned earlier I am at the Six State Rally in Texarkana this week, I just returned to my coach from the evening entertainment, where I may have been the youngest person in the audience (if there were any much younger I did not spot them),  such things as quilting and bingo were the prime topics of talk, and the entertainment was a tribute band for a band that had most of its hits before I was born, and we find people wondering why younger people don't join. 

Now I did enjoy it, the entertainment was good, but it is doubtful that it would appeal to many people much younger than I am.  I went to the chapter fair and it was also disappointing, some chapters had brochures featuring their upcoming events in 2013-2014, and many required chapter members to attend at least 3 chapter events per year,  the few younger non-retired members in the FMCA are not going to be attracted to such chapters as they simply don't have the free time to dedicate to attending 3 events per year, every year, I am semi retired, and making it to more than one or two rally events per year is pushing it even for me.

[camarti1]

“RVs tap into Americans’ values and desires to get out there, experience nature and see their families in a way that doesn’t break the bank,” RVIA spokesman Kevin Broom said.

Trailers, not motor homes, make up a large part of this growth, now accounting for 87% of the units sold, the association says. Buyers are likely to be Millennials, those in their 20s or early 30s, including a lot of young couples who don't have kids yet. Baby Boomers, by contrast, buy motor homes more as a life-altering decision, one that will occupy most if not all of their time after retirement.

“The wave of new buyers … want to recreate without investing heavily,” said Sherman Goldenberg, publisher of the trade magazine RV Business. “They want to go camping on weekends, but not be so committed that it’s a lifestyle change.”

That’s the reasoning Buckles and her husband employed in their decision to buy a trailer rather than a motor home. She said travel trailers were easier to use than motor homes and two or three times less expensive. But despite the lower commitment, she still wanted an RV that could withstand weekend trips as well as hold their three dogs – mini-schnauzers Millie and Georgie and Boston terrier Olive.

“We really were focused on quality, first and foremost,” Buckles said. “We wanted something that would hold up well over the next few years.”

Even when consumers do turn to motor homes, they’re looking at smaller models than before, said Sam Jefson, spokesman for RV manufacturer Winnebago. More Winnebago customers have shown interest in 21- to 24-foot models, Jefson said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/05/26/millennials-fueling-new-growth-recreational-vehicle-sales/102082492/

 

[jeff753]

1 hour ago, Isaaac1 said:

I agree with the others the FMCA needs younger members, the problem is younger in this case can mean people my age,  and I will be eligible to join AARP next year.  As I mentioned earlier I am at the Six State Rally in Texarkana this week, I just returned to my coach from the evening entertainment, where I may have been the youngest person in the audience (if there were any much younger I did not spot them),  such things as quilting and bingo were the prime topics of talk, and the entertainment was a tribute band for a band that had most of its hits before I was born, and we find people wondering why younger people don't join.  Now I did enjoy it, the entertainment was good, but it is doubtful that it would appeal to many people much younger than I am.  I went to the chapter fair and it was also disappointing, some chapters had brochures featuring their upcoming events in 2013-2014, and many required chapter members to attend at least 3 chapter events per year,  the few younger non-retired members in the FMCA are not going to be attracted to such chapters as they simply don't have the free time to dedicate to attending 3 events per year, every year, I am semi retired, and making it to more than one or two rally events per year is pushing it even for me.

Couple comments. I hear FMCA needs to get younger.  Let's say that's true.  We have actually gotten younger.  15 of us under 60 types met at a bar a couple nights at the Madison Rally and had pizza and talked in great detail of our lack of enthusiasm for the rally.   Everyone thought it was not a good cost vs value and was it was generally boring and we were all going to quit coming to rallies because the people and entertainment were one or two generations ahead of us.  It's the general nature of Motorhome drivers.  

 These 15 under 60s became the Under60 Task Force Steering Committee and set a goal to try to make Rallys fun for our demographic too. At the next rally (Perry) we changed the name to FMCA ENERGIZED and implemented two tracks of fun.  Energized activities for all ages by inviting all to things like Paint n Sip, DOGZ on Tour, ENERGIZED KIDZ Meet n Greet, Happy Hours etc.  In addition we organized secret missions on pub cycles, bike trips, wine tours and brewery tours with the generally under 60 group and their guest.   

This Steering Committee continued to promote Rally Wide (regardless of age) ENERGIZED events at Springfield, Chandler and Indy.  At Indy we added the rally long ENERGIZED KIDZ ZONE and MITO provided free wifi for this covered Pavillion.  We had 62 KIDZ. Mac the Fire Guy dud a KIDZ Fire Safty class too. KIDZ camped out in tents and it was a very large success.  KIDZ who had normally been drug to the rally by their parents were asking to go to the next one.  It was reminiscent of what the 70s must have been like with FMCA.

Recently we did two weeks of charitable builds in Lewisburg WV under the ENERGIZED Brand  44 people who had never met each other   Most had never done something like that.  100% had a ball and are already planning our next great adventure.  it's a snowball going downhill.

All this was done with the full and continuing support of Chris Smith Executive Director and Doug Uhlenbach Events Manager. They see what needs to happen and go out of their way to help pull it off. 

 

Now the second issue and one Chris nor Doug can solve for us. 

 What's your f number? When did you join?  What's the last F number we just issued? What happened to the 10s of thousands of members since you joined?  

In addition, RVIA reports: "RV shipments for May top 40,000 for the third straight month, staying on record pace". 
Towables are up by 19.8% over 2016 but motorhomes were up 27.5%  at 6,163. 

So how many of those 6,163 May 2017 motorhome shipment buyers have heard about FMCA yet?
If we aren't asking eligible members to join then increasing the pool will not fix the perceived problem. 

What happened to those 10s of thousands of Losses since you joined and not reaching 6000 May shipment owners are issues for the Membership Committee to work   These issues are not a result of us being a Motorhome club they are a result of a loss of interest or a lack of knowledge of FMCA and adding trailers will not help resolve these underlying causes.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is representation of your membership.  70% of members do not belong to Chapters.  Chapters are generally older established chapters and have a very high average age.  It's not younger people "arn't joiners" as we've heard it's they are not interested in these older chapters.  I think 10 new chapters have been created in the past 10 years.  Most date to the 70s. 

Only National Directors (of chapters) conduct the business of the association at Conventions and most chapters are well above the mean age demographic.  Are Chapters still a relevant approach for FMCA?  That's an issue for the Long Range Planning Committee to work.  Based on how many new chapters we've grown and only 30% of members actually belong to one it would seem it is not a good approach.  How do 50,000 (the majority of the youngsters) unrepresnted members get to vote at conventions?  

The benefits are getting better (thanks to Chris Smith and his team) and the rallies are getting much better (thanks to the energy of Doug U and his team)  but these other issues persist  

Us youngsters WILL become FMCA regardless of the trailer initiative. It's time for us to begin to take steps to get things on the convention floor.  Can't do that under the current chapter structure.   How about one number one vote and do away with national directors?  Regions would send delegates that represent x votes each. Chapter membership not required. Not saying we shouldn't or cannot have Chapters. 

It now appears FMCA will leave the 70-120k motor home club behind and become a benefit based club of 200-300k Rvers focused on benefits not rallys   Direct competition with Good SAMs.   ESCAPEES and the vast other clubs will absorb the Rallys and educational aspects of RVing  

And to ensure I stayed on topic I voted no;)

Stepping off the box now 

 

[manholt]

Camarti1 & Jeff. 

 Thank you for your insight and different approach to the problem that we currently face. Jeff, one morning you'll wake up and your the FMCA average age, are you "old"?  I'm not...age wise I am, but I take no kind of RX medication, so please don't try to "pigeon hole" me!  Like the average age of our members, we drive a very large and long vehicle down the road.  What I'm getting at, is that in order to have this 71 year average, there has got to be members in their 70's, 80's and even 90, along with 40-60...That's why I don't buy into age being the real problem....you'll have about the same with trailers!

I do agree with the idea about every member needs representation at the annual meeting...I'm a ND for a chapter, but that leaves at least half the membership.  Re-doing the By-Laws and Policy & Procedure, is a daunting task that would take years.  Just like the trailer vote...if it passes, it will still be years until we can implement it.  I have already writhen about that.

Camarti1, welcome aboard !  I like your thoughts.  

[BillAdams]

It was posted previously that the average age of an FMCA member was 71.  That was stated a an actual number and not posts as "estimated at 71" so it would be interesting to know where that comes from.  I believe it is likely true considering there really are no benefits for younger folks to join FMCA other than the ever shrinking magazine.  By the way, is a paper magazine still published?  I did not receive one for the entire last year that I was a member.

[manholt]

BillA.

Yes it is.  Do you have a P.O. Box and mail/magazine forwarding or just 1st class mail forwarding? 

Since you advocate digital, you can read it every month at FMCA main page! 

[rayin]

On 10/27/2017 at 2:18 PM, Isaaac1 said:

Well the story continues to evolve, I am at the Six State Rally in Texarkana, and attended the member benefit seminar this morning, and the topic of the vote and turning FMCA into just another Good Sams was brought up by the speaker, and his position on the vote had nothing to do with getting younger members, instead it was to follow up on a direction change that was made in FMCA 4 or 5 years ago to make FMCA the number one source for information for all types of RV's.

On a side note some new benefits were covered, most notably a new $69 per year road side assistance plan that is superior to the old $109 plan which goes live next week, as well as a $49 per month with 2 year contract Verizon data plan with mobile hotspot device also going live in the next week or two.

Was that "direction change" 4 or 5 years ago the initiation of this move to be a clone of Good Sam Club?

[manholt]

Yeah.  After Redmond, OR. 2014

[camarti1]

                          Article X 

       AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION

A. Any 20 voting members, the Governing Board, The Executive Board, or the Constitution and Bylaws Committee may propose an amendment to the Constitution.

B. Proposed amendment with rationale should be clearly set forth in writing.

C. Proposals shall be sent to the Secretary and a duplicate to the President.

 

Now, why did I write out this specific portion of the "Proposed Changes"? It only took 20 members to make this suggestion, and sent it on to way through to too many committees to write about. Is it possible a motion from the floor (us) could stop this process of this vote? I made a motion in a previous post "I would like to make a motion that this vote be tabled until such time other options can be explored by the FMCA committee for expanding its membership, using some of the suggestions brought forward contained here within."

I made my request in writing, and it is clearly done with rationale, as I have explained my ideas for the FMCA quite clearly.

Is it possible, with a "second" and 20 votes to table the motion, this issue goes back to committee for review? I jokingly stated it was too late for this to happen, but is it? Can someone much more knowledgeable please respond to this, please? I know I will be severely reprimanded for even suggesting such a thing, perhaps even thrown out of the FMCA, but if we can exercise our votes to put this out there to amend the constitution, then it may be possible to use our voting power to stop these changes and ask for the items suggested be considered. 

I am for positive changes, but not changes which appear to be changes just for the sake of change. I do not feel adding towables is the right direction for the FMCA, and I have voted "NO", just to help keep the thread back on subject.

Thank You for your time and attention, it clearly is appreciated. Any and help is also gratefully acknowledged.

[rpelatt]

2 hours ago, camarti1 said:

                          Article X 

       AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION

A. Any 20 voting members, the Governing Board, The Executive Board, or the Constitution and Bylaws Committee may propose an amendment to the Constitution.

B. Proposed amendment with rationale should be clearly set forth in writing.

C. Proposals shall be sent to the Secretary and a duplicate to the President.

 

Now, why did I write out this specific portion of the "Proposed Changes"? It only took 20 members to make this suggestion, and sent it on to way through to too many committees to write about. Is it possible a motion from the floor (us) could stop this process of this vote? I made a motion in a previous post "I would like to make a motion that this vote be tabled until such time other options can be explored by the FMCA committee for expanding its membership, using some of the suggestions brought forward contained here within."

I made my request in writing, and it is clearly done with rationale, as I have explained my ideas for the FMCA quite clearly.

Is it possible, with a "second" and 20 votes to table the motion, this issue goes back to committee for review? I jokingly stated it was too late for this to happen, but is it? Can someone much more knowledgeable please respond to this, please? I know I will be severely reprimanded for even suggesting such a thing, perhaps even thrown out of the FMCA, but if we can exercise our votes to put this out there to amend the constitution, then it may be possible to use our voting power to stop these changes and ask for the items suggested be considered. 

I am for positive changes, but not changes which appear to be changes just for the sake of change. I do not feel adding towables is the right direction for the FMCA, and I have voted "NO", just to help keep the thread back on subject.

Thank You for your time and attention, it clearly is appreciated. Any and help is also gratefully acknowledged.

I'd sure second that one  can't imagine it would take more than 5 minutes to get the other 20...

[BillAdams]

Even if you could, you can't.  This is a done deal put together by the powers that be and since we will never see the actual ballots sent in for the vote, the vote will magically be positive.

[camarti1]

41 minutes ago, BillAdams said:

Even if you could, you can't.  This is a done deal put together by the powers that be and since we will never see the actual ballots sent in for the vote, the vote will magically be positive.

I need an explanation please. Why can't we all just vote "yes" to table the vote, and refer it back to committee? I read the rules on how to amend the constitution, and it clearly states it only needs 20 votes to initiate a change. We now have a second, so it would now be an active motion to vote on. The question is do you want to table this motion and refer it back to committee? If if can't be done as per the rules listed, then I really need a comprehensive explanation why, as I really do have a desire to know. I am not an expert on Robert's Rules of Order, so I am winging it here. According to the Constitution, it only needs 20 votes to amend.

[wolfe10]

Bill,

Irrespective of which side if the discussion one is on, I find it offensive that one would question that the results (sent to Mandel & Associates, an independent CPA firm) would be "rigged".

We are talking about a well-established CPA firm here, not national politics.

If you have some "insider" FACTS substantiating that a CPA firm would rig the results, would be very interested.

[smithy]

58 minutes ago, BillAdams said:

Even if you could, you can't.  This is a done deal put together by the powers that be and since we will never see the actual ballots sent in for the vote, the vote will magically be positive.

Come on Bill. The ballots are going to a CPA firm that counts them for us. It is a bit insulting to hint that anyone at FMCA is fixing the vote. 

[camarti1]

Bill,

Didn't you say in an earlier post you had allowed your membership to lapse? I think it is an error to besmirch anyone's name at this point, so please, let all of this stay above board and keep integrity in the forefront.

[cynthiaaconlon]

No.  Traveling with a motor coach is much different than traveling with a towable trailer.  We joined this group to meet and share experiences with others who are motor coach owners.

[camarti1]

31 minutes ago, cynthiaaconlon said:

No.  Traveling with a motor coach is much different than traveling with a towable trailer.  We joined this group to meet and share experiences with others who are motor coach owners.

Cynthia, I am trying to have the amendment cancelled and leave FMCA a motor coach only organization.  For any others who may be reading this, a "yes" vote is needed to try and nullify the action of allowing towables into FMCA. 

Thank you to all who are reading this, your time is so appreciated.

 

[jeff753]

Not having read what you are referring ----to I would surmise the 20 votes you reference are National Directors not FNumbers. And then only during the annual convention. 

[manholt]

Quote

Even if you could, you can't.

Yes, you could have, 90 days prior to the last Committee meeting in Indy this summer !  Now, it's a tad late. 

Bill A.  There are times that I find you offensive and if you really have a bone to chew, then re-new your membership first.  Come to think of it, I have no clue why you became a member of FMCA to begin with....you have made no positive contribution that am aware off...just all negative!

[camarti1]

Thanks folks. As I read the articles and I got to Articles 10 it states 20 members, not specifying a specific level of membership. To recap, it states as follows: "Any 20 voting members, the Governing Board, The Executive Board, or the Constitution and Bylaws Committee may propose an amendment to the Constitution." The key word in the sentence is "or" so there is a choice of who may propose an amendment, which would also mean, in my very humble opinion, that 20 voting members also have the power to not amend the constitution. I have read and reread the posting and nowhere, anywhere in the document states a specific level of voting member can make changes or stop them. Is it mentioned somewhere else in the constitution. Please, I am really eager to learn how this constitution is interpreted, as I am a newbie, and truly am not aware of the nuances of the organization. Thank You.

[spuds]

On 10/27/2017 at 1:46 PM, manholt said:

How nice!  Here I was reprimanded by some of our finest, by PM, for just hinting about FMCA working on a new Verizon deal..

 

I got publicly attacked by an FMCA board member on another website for posting my experience with the Verizon issue (mine was a comment to their article about how it had failed).  Total turn-off to FMCA's board.