Problems with new motor homes

[marchalpern]

We purchased a new Tiffin Phaeton in May of 2008. We have had numerous minor and one major problem. The major problem was a slide out that wouldn't retract. We were in an RV park and had a tech come out and communicate with tiffin. Finally he found a loose bolt on the generator. Tiffin reimbursed the cost. Still, I have to wonder why this wasn't caught in a quality inspection, or don't motor home manufacturers believe that doing it right the first time is important? If I buy a Toyota they have quality built in and defects are tracked by magazines such as Consumer Reports. How come problems are such a routine part of a motor home owners life, or is it just my coach? By the way, I didn't have these problems with my class C Winnebago.

Our other problems have all required trips to the dealer and days wasted. Included are: delamination, leaky washer (twice), spider cracks in shower stall, in house vacuum failure, stripped bearings on shades after only being used a few times, mal functioning ice maker. We have used the motorhome for about 3 months on the road and feel we are always waiting for the next shoe to drop. Tiffin did extend the overall warranty for 6 months, but we really resent constant trips to the dealer for things that should have been done right the first time. We are told by our salesman that these problems are "normal" and that after all the RV is almost one year old.

Is this normal. What are your experiences?

[lpfdon]

You can say that minor problems are sort of routine. We have a 2009 Safari, Simba now with some 5,000 miles on it and there was always some minor nuisances. But we try and "go with the flow". Our bed collasped on us. a shelf above the door fell off, a big screw jammed up the macerator, the sewer rinse valve still doesn't work, the oil seal between the engine and tranmission leaks,voltage irregularities from the inverter, leak from the ice maker. Having said all that everything is fixed to perfection or will be! We have a great dealer.

[caresen]

we have a 2006 Damon Astoria our experience is same it was new our major problem was the A/C units would turn on but the fan would not engage in auto so you had to use manual high to keep the unit from freezing up. We returned to the dealership after keeping the unit for a couple of months they said it was fixed. It went back it was not fixed and they did not check it the excuss those things can go wrong when you leave service, after another 30 days they said it was fixed. It went back finally they fixed it we were not amused. The fixture for hot and cold water in the shower cracked behind the wall and started leaking fixed, the slide cover over the large slide out froze so we could not open it we were on vacation no service available in that part of LA, left early drove to Houston, TX to repair. Light fixture in living area went out purchased a replacement it was bad bought another working now. The wiring for the entertainment system was incorrect thats been fixed at my cost. I feel your challenge

[garykd]

Hi marchalpern,

I'd say you are one of the lucky new owners. My signature coach has had almost 200 defects that were repaired under warranty (3 year warranty, thank goodness). In the almost 4 years we have had the coach, we've taken only one trip where nothing broke. I'm not talking about burned out light bulbs. I'm talking about major systems malfunctions. The automotive part of the coach has performed almost flawlessly (thanks Cummins, Spartan and Allison). It's the coach systems that have repeatedly failed. In 2005, Newmar was putting (shoving?) out the door about 15 coaches a day. Personally, I don't feel they have the ability to do this. HVAC, electrical, plumbing, mechanical, you name it it has broke. Sometimes more than once. Both roof heat pumps and TVs have been replaced, gas furnace has broken 4 times, HWH broke three times, refrigerator broke twice, entry steps broke twice and then were replaced, main awning has broke so many times I don't remember the count (it has been replaced once), HWH jacks have broken 3 times and we are now suffering with an intermittent problem, two tires needed to be replaced (out of round), the washer/dryer combo has broken 2 times, slide toppers have been replaced 3 times, the basement doors have been replaced and average of 5 times for delamination. The list goes on and on.

In the USA, coach manufacturers have no clue what quality control is. Ask any manufacturer if they are ISO certified. If you take a plant tour, ask to see their quality control process as a coach moves through assembly. Then ask to see the quality control on a finished coach as the last step before it ships to a customer. You'll be disappointed.

Budget for the repairs and enjoy the lifestyle. That's what we do.

[Roodriver]

Our first class A was a brand that another manufacturer purchased after we bought our coach. We were extremely pleased with the first MH and thought we would buy another one, and then luck we got lucky. The brand we owned had an owners rally near the new consolidated factory so we took a tour and here are a few things we learned about the new owners. They apparently hired people with limited hand tool experience since we observed several guys using tool improperly in such a manner to damage the coach and make a very sloppy job. My wife even pointed out a guy using a drill with a spade bit in a very interesting manner which looked like he was attempting to break his arm. This guy had drilled several holes and all were jagged, crooked messes which had pvc pipes or wires run through them. No bushings anywhere. The pipes would probably be okay but the wires would probably chafe from the motion of a moving MH.

Our original coach was supposedly good quality which we believed because of joinery work and finish. So we were surprised to see our brand going down the same line as the new manufacturers cheaper model, but were assured that better quality materials were put into our brand. Like they say, there is a sucker born every minute, but I didn't buy their nonsense. When it came time to buy, we bought a different brand. Since then, I have advocated that people considering a MH go on a factory tour.

Some of the things we saw made it obvious that quality assurance was something these folks had never heard of, and most sadly, could care less about.

[Guest Wayne77590]

I believe that not having problems is the exception, not the rule. Everyone I have ever known who has had a recreational vehicle, and I say that with a broad sense like in TT's, 5'ers, MH's, etc., have had problems. Some were small, some were major.

My past life was a 5er and it was in the shop after every trip for something to be fixed - all under warrant.

My new life is a 2008 MH. The first one I was GOING to buy had a slide out problem that the dealer could not fix in a timely manner. So, they transported an exact copy, except for dining table, and that was the one we PDI'ed. On our first trip out, evacuating from a hurricane, the wiper seal on the long curb side slide came out from the side-top to about 5 feet down. I needed a neighbors help to get it in. For the duration of our trip I would wet the side of the slide while DW retracted (or extended) and push on the wiper seal to keep it in its place.

Other items: Bed tore off it's frame because it was not anchored properly.

Closet door latch broke, tracked door was difficult to slide, track was chewed up.

There were other minor things that were fixed while the more major ones were being tended to.

And, how about this. The leveler jacks would not hold pressure and would dip on the right front side. Now that makes it difficult to not roll out of bed, close doors, etc. I was embarrased to run the MH up on wood blocks to level it, but that is what I had to do. All the way to Las Vegas and back, and this was the third trip that this had happened on. The coach was in the shop at least 4 times for the same problem. Only on the last time when I asked for "lemon law" papers did things seem to get serious with daily updates from the service department. The final fix was to replace the entire manifold, which is an unusual fix. I have not been in terrain yet that has tested that fix - but I will be leaving Saturday.

I think you can see by the replies that it is more typical than one would expect, especially when we pay so much money for what should be a quality product.

I wonder if Prevost has this problem!

[tbutler]

We have owned two motor homes, a used (third owner) 1994 Monaco Dynasty and a brand spanking new 2004 Monaco Windsor. We have had no end of minor problems that have been fixed at Monaco rallies and at the factory as well as the dealer. I could list them but it would take too long.

Given that, keep in mind that a motor home is like few other vehicles. We were at a Allison shop in Tennessee when an owner of a bus conversion came up and started a conversation. He reasoned that RV's were like boats, there was always something to be fixed. We were in for routine maintenance but I understood what he meant. An RV is a complex animal. Not at all like your car. We have AC and DC electric that power an endless list of convenience items, a full plumbing system and an endless list of appliances all manufactured by third parties. Every time we drive, our home (we are full timers) has a magnitude 3 or 4 earthquake, sometimes even a 5!

Imagine being a quality control person who has to check everything on the motor home before releasing it. This one has two slides, the next has four slides. There is a full home theater set up to be checked. One has satellite TV and you don't even have a subscription to check that out, the next has just an antenna. Check all the plumbing for the shower, bath, kitchen, washer/drier.

We owned our motor home for a YEAR before we realized that there was a heating vent that had been covered with carpet! I have learned to do as much work on the motor home as I can. I purchased a full supply of fittings for the rear support on the drawer slides in our motor home after the first one failed! I found a suitable substitute at Lowe's and bought about 24 packages. I'm about 80% done with those replacements. The next year our manufacturer went to a completely different system. I'm guessing they heard from many other owners that had the same experience we had. I keep a supply of cabinet hinges, drawer latches and switches on hand for the eventual failures. We are replacing our inverter in the next week because the old inverter lost the auto-gen start and fixing it would cost almost as much as having a new full sine wave inverter installed.

Monaco repairs many items at rallies that are sponsored by the company - at least they used to before the recent bankruptcy filing and subsequent pending sale to Navistar (International Harvester). I know that manufacturers could do better but the wonderful machines we drive are light years from the early motor homes. They will get better if the market will support them in the future. But if they get perfect, most of us will not be able to afford them. Maybe we can't afford them now! Who knows? Enjoy it while you have it.

[hillbillymom@hotmail.com]

We have a new 2009 Tiffin Phaeton 40ft QTH. We too have had issues, but from what we hear, Tiffin is by far, the better unit out there.

Good luck and safe travels

[mx00586]

We love our new 2008 Damon Astoria Pacifica, but it had different 4 failure modes in the Freightliner Chassis air system during the first 6 months and 4k miles of use. All were fixed under warranty, but three times we have been stranded with no air pressure to release brakes or lift suspension system and needed emergency road service. Once at night in the rain. Each time we were lucky enough to be close to our local Freightliner service center. Each time the cause was deemed some "freak" defective component. Each time we were told "this never happens".

The Damon Coach had a few minor issues, which I sort of expected, all of which our selling dealer fixed quickly. No big deal. But the Freightliner problems were not expected.

We just returned from a 2500 mile trip completely problem free. I was nervous about going far from home, but looks like maybe we have gotten all the bugs out now. This is our first motorhome, and we bought the diesel on a Freightliner chassis primarily to get what we thought would be extra realiabiltiy. To say the least, I was spooked and was afraid we had made a huge misteak, but I have regained confidence.

Has anyone else experienced a flurry of air system failuers on a new coach with a Freightliner chassis?

[Roodriver]

I have heard that driving a MH down the highway is akin to being in a hurricane and a tornado all at one time. For sure a lot of stress is placed on the chassis. It really is a wonder we don't have more problems from torquing the things in and out of drives, over railroad tracks, and some of the holes in the roads. Then just for fun, we hook up to unknown electrical systems and subject some pretty sensitive electronics to who knows what. If that doesn't get something going, we can always revert back to the lack of QC in the plants. oops! Forgot the women drivers.

[satchthemo@yahoo.com]

We are fulltimers a 2006 Newmar Kountry Star. Made one trip to the factory to get some warranty work done. Nothing major and all handled reasonably. We love our coach!

I managed the Cabinet Department at Marathon Coach for 9 years, '93-'02, with about 600 coaches going out the door. They have a great Q.C. program, used to drive me nuts in their quest for perfection-what do people expect for a million dollars? The coaches were inspected during production as well as a PDI 1 and a PDI 2. Even so, various things escaped us. Part of the challenge was working with cutting edge technology in a production setting. To some degree, every manufacturer deals with that. Everybody wants the latest and the greatest right now-and it better work.

Each motorhome producer faces another challenge. Deliver the best coach at the lowest price for their target market. Supplier problems aside, getting the folks to do the job for the wages paid is difficult. At Marathon I used to say, "We hire the best and send them the rest." Good RV employees are hard and wonderful to find. They don't make great wages.

Basically, we get what we pay for. It takes research to buy a R.V. Even so, the best can come with issues. While it doesn't seem right, it is hard to appreciate the construction complexity of these rigs we love to hate.

I also put in a year as a customer service writer for La Mesa in Coburg, Oregon during their northwest years. I learned a lot about manufacturers' shortcomings.

As many know, if you buy an RV, you need a tool box and a sense of humor. A few thousand extra dollars doesn't hurt either.

Frank

[mavric65@aol.com]

I bought a 2008 Damon daybreak in august 08 and also had a few minor problems which were taken care of by the dealer .. My service guy informed me i have been very lucky compared to some and this is my second Damon i have owned.. My last was a great coach with minor problems....... Also he told me it is a EARTQUAKE on wheels and there are bound to be a problem now and then ....... We love our coach and use it frequently although we are not full timers by any means but usally go twice a month to get away from it all...........

Mike & Christina

[kingfr]

Hey Marchalpern,

Earthquake on wheels is probably a good analogy. Especially if you spend time on highways in the west. (Oklahoma and California come to mind) Be glad that you own a Tiffin product. They are probably not constructed any better than most other manufacturers, but Bob and the boys do stand behind their product better than most other manufacturers. And yes they are still in business, I understand that they just increased production from three coaches a day to four, all sold before they go out the door.

[seajaycecil@yahoo.com]

We have a 2000 Pace Arrow and it definitely is not new. I bought it in 2000, second hand with 6000 miles on the clock. It is showing about ninety five thousand miles and it is still running fine and giving very little problems. A friend of mine bought a new Monico 44 foot coach, four slides and all the bells and whistles and has had nothing but problems. His ''pushbutton'' awning lost its mind and popped out and would not retract. He has had the coach back to Lazy Days more times than I care to remember and it still is not completely fixed.

Sometimes I look at new coaches and kinda drool but I simply recall all the horror stories I have listened to and the old Pace looks better all the time. My coach has two slides and the rear slide is poorly engineered from the factory. I figured out a ''fix'' for it and solved the problem.

A very simple rule of thumb is this. The more ''stuff'' you have on your coach the more likely you are going to have more than one thing that just don't work right or don't work at all. Such is life concerning motor homing.

I have always maintained that if you would stop 100 coaches on the road and ask if they were having any problem with their coach that 99 of them would answer yes. Simply stated. These things are rolling pieces of junk that fall apart at the most in-oppertune time and we simply can't live without them. Fixing them is like putting in fuel. It's something you have to do occasionally...

I have had this coach for nine years and I know how to fix it myself. I know every squeek, bobble, wiggle and burp this thing can do and because I have already fixed them once at least....

The biggest problem with a new coach is that you are paying a fortune for a new set of troubles that you dont know how to fix ....

Seajay the sailor man......

[dickreid1]

Hi marchalpern,

We have one of those Mercedes 5-cylinder diesel "Sprinter" class C motorhomes from Winnebago with 39,000 miles. There has been the notorious "turbo resonator" problem in the engine which is a no-charge service from Dodge. The only coach problems so far are the Kwikee electric steps jamming three times and a faulty electrical cable connector.

The step fix requires removal of the clevis pin (very difficult) to disconnect the steps from the drive arm, then merely loosening the three bolts to the gear box (very simple).

The symptoms of the other problem was an cold related simultaneous failure of the slide-out and electric step on/off switch. We resorted to taking the problem to the Winnebago plant in Iowa. The service people there could not analyze the cause. The intermittent problem persisted and got worse until it failed entirely in hot weather. From the wiring diagrams I located the single line where the power branches to the step on/off switch and the slide-out switch. Tracing that line I found a pinched female connector prevented the male pin from entering. In assembly the connectors were obviously forced together. This broke the retaining prongs on the female connector and pushed it back into the connector housing. Instead of the normal pin-in-tube connection there was only a fragile pin-touching-tube connection. When cold, contraction would break the connection. Upon warming it would expand to remake the connection. Ultimately vibration finally permanently broke the connection.

I have taken the Winnebago plant tour three times because it is so impressive. After seeing the good work they do it is hard to imagine why one of their people would force a bad connector rather than flagging the problem for repair.

**** from Florida

[jhalat]

Wow, some real horror stories. We bought our first and only MH two years ago, a Coachman Cross Country. Yes, I expected some major and minor problems, but have been very pleased with it so far. Yes there were some minor problems but nothing major. My thought was to drive the heck out of it the first year to get all the bugs out and hope for the best the rest of the years. Never took the unit back to the dealer (bought it out of state), and have always taken it to Camping World for repairs. I do stop at Gaffney S.C. on my way home from Florida to get the chassis lub and maintanice checks done. CW have fixed all my problems under warrenty, except for one which I still have. Black tank sensor. Sound fimilar?? We're very pleased with out unit and have all the confidence in it to get from point A to point B without any problems. Thank goodness, because the DW would never let me live it down if it didn't. We're not full timers, but live in it for 5 months in Florida and then use it a few weeks during the summer months up North. Like I stated earlier, if you buy new, run it, don't let it sit around under warrenty.

[seajaycecil@yahoo.com]

I will relate to you a story that I observed while at Tom Johnsons RV sales.

I got a bullion from Pace Arrow about a pending wiring problem with my coach and I was advised to

go back to an authorized dealer and have it checked out to possibly prevent a fire.

The word ''FIRE'' got my attention and I made an appointment and drove the coach down for their

inspection.

I was sitting in the lounge having the free coffee and day old donuts when a nice lady came in and sat

down beside me. She was on her cell phone and she had a ''legal pad'' in her other hand. She dropped the

legal pad on the table and continued her conversation on the phone.

Being a curious person I sorta, kinda, half way glanced at the writing on the legal pad. On this ''list'' were

notations about things that did not work, things that worked sometimes, things that worked but not correctly

things that they didnt understand how they were suppose to work and a lot of other ''not happy'' type stuff.

I also noticed that the ''legal pad'' had several ''folded over'' pages with stuff written on them also.

She hung up the cell phone and said ''Hi, I suppose your coach has fallen apart also''.

I told her that I was here because of a bulliten from Pace Arrow. I made the error of asking if she was having

problems with their coach.

I will not mention the name of the coach but it is (or was) a very popular brand. It seems that their coach was

a 40 footer, gas model and if you could think of it, it had gone wrong with their coach. I need to mention here that this

coach was bought new in California. They had just retired and wanted to join the RV lifestyle. She and her husband

were making a cross country trip and they had nothing but troubles. It seemed that they had stopped at every dealership

from California to North Carolina and had something fixed or looked at. She showed me over five pages of problems.

I will say this that some of it was because they were ''newbies''. One thing was that they kept running out of hot water.

I guess no one explained to them that it was a five gallon tank. We sat and talked for the better part of an hour and she went over some of the problems they had on this trip. Like I said, some of it was because they just didnt know and when

they bought the coach no one told them. She told me that Calif. had a ''lemon law'' and she fully intended to sue the

company that made the coach and get her money back if she ever got back to California.

Some of her problems were real problems. One thing was one of the jacks got stuck down and they took 2 days for someone to come out and fix it. Another was that the refrigerator would not work on AC and the back up camera worked some of the time and some of the time it didnt work. It seemed that their electric step would give them a ''surprise'' occasionally. They would lock it out and for some reason it would retract on its own when least expected. No one had

told them about the GFI and they were without power to one side of the coach for a day or two.

Personally, I think a lot of their problems could have been solved if the person or the company that had sold them the coach

would have given them a ''hand hold'' tour of the coach and explained everything in detail about the coach to them.

Anyhow, such is life when it comes to the lifestyle we love .......

Be safe on the road

Seajay the sailor man.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS AND BRING THEM HOME SAFE ...

[jhalat]

Yes Seajay, the life we live is great. Your story reminds me of the time we went on our first rally. We were talking to a couple that had just bought a used Class C and on the way to the rally they discovered the shower drain was plugged. They tried everything to unplug it and were thinking of taking it apart. After talking to them a few minutes I asked them if they have dumped the gray tank. Oh, it has another tank?? I never seen a couple get up so fast, pack up their motorhome and moved it to the dump station to dump "the other tank". Seems no one told them they had two tanks to empty. We do met the nicest people on our travels and share the funniest experiences.

[seajaycecil@yahoo.com]

This reminds me of some English People I met up in Banf provintial park.

I was walking thru the camping area (which was a parking lot with electrical hook ups only) when I walked past

a 40 foot gas rig with six nice ''English'' people sitting around outside sipping White Horse Scotch. I could not help

but notice that there were about eight plastic five gallon cans sitting around the outside of the coach. Curiosity over came

me and I walked over to their coach. They were all very friendly and offered me a ''scotch'' and a chair so we could talk

I accepted the scotch and sat down still looking at all the five gallon cans. I finally asked if they were afraid there

was going to be a water shortage and they laughed and told me that the ''pump'' in their coach was not pumping water.

I asked if I could take a look and they said sure. I went inside and turned on the sink faucet and nothing came out.

I checked every water source in the coach and they had no water. I asked if they had ''filled the tank '' and they said it

was full. I found the switch and turned on the water pump. It would purr for about five seconds and then stop.

I went and got my tool box and opened the basement of the coach. I told them to turn on the pump again. I could hear it

purrrrrr for about five seconds and then stop. It took several cycles of the pump for me to figure out it was behind a inspection plate held on by 8 screws. I pulled the screws and the plate fell off. BINGO.. there was the water pump.

It had a cut off valve on each side of the pump and both of them were OFF. I told them to ''hit the pump'' again and

you would have thought I had invented a cure for cancer. The kitchen faucet splurted water and air and then water ...

They went all over the coach turning on water and screaming with delight.

''Bloody **** Yank'' ''What do we owe you?''........... '' We got water now and we havent had any pump water since the

start on the trip.''

They wanted to pay me and of course I turned them down. They wanted to make me a Shepards Pie and a ''Bacon Bottie'' and I said no thanks.

They offered me all the plastic five gallon cans I wanted and I said no thanks. They insisted that I have another drink and that I should accept a fifth of White Horse as payment. I agreed to take the bottle if they would let me fix drinks for everyone from the bottle. They agreed and we had a really good time talking and drinking. These people could really drink and I got pretty drunk real quick.....

These nice folks had flown from England to Seattle Washington and rented the coach for a ''fortnite'' to go exploring around Canada and the USA. As I recall they lived in the Shetland Islands.

It seems that they had been doing some ''rough camping'' and they were heating water on the stove so they could bathe and

they were pouring water in the comode when necessary. I also showed them how to turn on the hot water heater. One of the ladies kissed me right on the mouth when she got hot water from the faucet. It seems that when they rented the coach no one bothered to

check the thing out to see if everything was working. They were just handed the key and told where to put in the gas.

Forutenly they had figured out how to dump the tanks.

They were really nice people and I got pretty drunk before I got back to my coach. They would take turns just walking into the coach and turning on the water just to see it run.

When I got back to my coach I was really drunk and my wife seemed to understand. I explained that ''I'd bean elpin sum nic folkz from Angland and the nsisted that I shood hav a drimk wif thm''

I took a shower and went to bed.

This is the beauty of the life we love. You get to meet nice people with a common interest.........

Seajay the sailor man......