50 Amp Service Wired Wrong

[Mattyboy]

Had electrician put 50 amp service and ran 220 to the outlet. Smoked batteries boiled appliances were destroyed.

Service tech said he can fix it by replacing a couple bulbs all bulbs were blown out I am afraid the camper should be total due to safety issues and wires burned inside of walls.

[wolfe10]

Mattyboy,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Is your RV wired for 50 amp or 30 amp service. Said another way, is your shore power plug 3 prong or 4?

[kaypsmith]

Either 30 amp service wired for 240, or 120 volt wired to neutral leg of a 50 amp could "boil over". If it is truly 50 amp, electrician needs to pay for repairs.

[manholt]

Spot on, Kay.

Another good reason to have a hard wired surge protector in coach and/or a portable at outlet.

Mattyboy, did the electrician check to see what kind off amperage you needed? Was he/she a licensed electrician?

Carl

[hermanmullins]

Unless the plug was wired wrong you can get 220 volt at your 50 amp plug. In as much as you have two 110 volt legs, one neutral and one ground. Your two outside vertical blades (leg 1 and leg 2) are 110 volts. the top blade is the neutral and the bottom (round pin) is the ground. If your electrician wire your plug in this manner her did it correctly. I would make sure that he did use the correct breaker.

What I am saying it that before you blame the Electrician I would make sure it is wired correctly (not his problem) or incorrectly (his error).

Sorry for your problem. Have a long discussion with your Insurance Company.

Herman

[manholt]

Correct Herman. But I, like Brett, would like to know more about the coach...30A or 50A. Would be nice to hear back from Mattboy

Carl!

[tbutler]

50A service should be 220/240V service. If wired correctly, it shouldn't damage the coach.

Wiring diagrams and information for 30A and 50A are available at RV Electric

If you are planning to do any wiring for an RV outlet, you should study the information on this site. Obviously this is true even if you are planning to hire an electrician to do the job. This isn't difficult but if your electrician makes one incorrect assumption real damage can occur. You would also be making a mistake if you simply ask an electrician to install a 50A outlet without mentioning that it is for an RV. I would print off specific information from the site for the electrician before they show up for the job. Then discuss the installation with them. Make sure they understand that the installation is for an RV. This is especially true for 30A RV's as 30A for an RV is never 220/240V. Once completed, test the outlet with a voltmeter or other test equipment before plugging anything into the outlet.

[wildebill308]

50A service should be 220/240V service. If wired correctly, it shouldn't damage the coach.

Wiring diagrams and information for 30A and 50A are available at RV Electric

If you are planning to do any wiring for an RV outlet, you should study the information on this site. Obviously this is true even if you are planning to hire an electrician to do the job. This isn't difficult but if your electrician makes one incorrect assumption real damage can occur. You would also be making a mistake if you simply ask an electrician to install a 50A outlet without mentioning that it is for an RV. I would print off specific information from the site for the electrician before they show up for the job. Then discuss the installation with them. Make sure they understand that the installation is for an RV. This is especially true for 30A RV's as 30A for an RV is never 220/240V. Once completed, test the outlet with a voltmeter or other test equipment before plugging anything into the outlet.

Good advise Tom.

Carl, I doubt he would be having a 50 amp receptacle installed if he had 30 amp service. Even if he had a 30 amp coach if he was plugging into a 50 amp plug he would have to use an adapter and shouldn't have a problem.

Bill

[Lenp]

I would venture a guess he has a 30 amp coach. Showed the electrician the plug - electrician said "dryer plug" and wired him up a 240 volt receptacle. Electrician didn't know anything about RVs!

Lenp

[Mattyboy]

Sorry for the delay in my response. I have a 50 amp service and it was wired wrong. I ran the 50 amp service into RV and basically fried everything . I'm worried about interior wiring melting insulation on wire an causes fires etc. RV mechanic assures me everything will be alright but after talking to others they don't have the same opinion. I feel camper should be rewired and electrical devices should be replaced. Some input would be great.

[wolfe10]

Since your RV is 50 amp service, I ASSUME that the 4 wires were mis-connected, with one of the two hots going to what is supposed to be the neutral. If the mis-connected hot was to ground, the RV skin/frame would have showed 120 VAC and a good chance someone would have been electrocuted.

If that was the case (mis-connected to neutral), only those circuits supplied by that one properly wired hot (and the mis-connected one on neutral) should be affected. Said another way with just two hots and one of them mis-connected, the circuits supplied by the hot that was mis-connected would have showed 120 VAC (but with reverse polarity) if the mis-connected was on the neutral. They should have suffered no damage.

[Mattyboy]

The black and white wire were attached to double pole 50 amp breaker in box. My buddy came and removed white wire and put it in the bus bar then we had proper 120. He is very familiar with electrical service and he feels with the amount of time that it was hooked up may have done serious damage to camper wiring appliances etc. I feel my camper should be totaled or all electrical be replaced.

[wolfe10]

Our speculation really won't do you any good.

You need to contact your insurance company. They will need to send an adjuster familiar with 120 VAC wiring.

[Mattyboy]

Yes I understand wolfe10. But the camper will never be the same and the electronics have been compromised . Future can arise from incident according to others I spoke with do you agree. And what would you do in this case? Thanks.

[huffypuff]

Mattyboy, you need to stop tampering with the breaker box and RV and call your insurance company. Afterwards call the electrician you used and demand his insurance information. You can also file a complaint with a your local consumer protection agency.

[Mattyboy]

Thanks huffy puff I did contact insurance .my electrican is taking responsiblity for it. But some mechanics are telling me that camper should b totaled and the guy looked at it thinks he will just replace every melted and burned bulbs in camper and call it done that scares me and my wife for the fire concerns.

[medico]

50A service should be 220/240V service. If wired correctly, it shouldn't damage the coach.

Wiring diagrams and information for 30A and 50A are available at RV Electric

If you are planning to do any wiring for an RV outlet, you should study the information on this site. Obviously this is true even if you are planning to hire an electrician to do the job. This isn't difficult but if your electrician makes one incorrect assumption real damage can occur. You would also be making a mistake if you simply ask an electrician to install a 50A outlet without mentioning that it is for an RV. I would print off specific information from the site for the electrician before they show up for the job. Then discuss the installation with them. Make sure they understand that the installation is for an RV. This is especially true for 30A RV's as 30A for an RV is never 220/240V. Once completed, test the outlet with a voltmeter or other test equipment before plugging anything into the outlet.

The referenced sites seem to be closed.

[Lenp]

the black and white wires you mention.......first of all, white SHOULD be neutral. If it was connected to one output side of the dual 50 amp breaker, you put 240 across all the circuits normally connected to the BLACK hot wire.

What were the other colors of wires and where were they connected? Should be TWO more wires here - red and probably green.

240 volts on the wiring should not hurt the wiring, only those appliances connected to that circuit would be harmed. The 12 volt system may have taken a surge that damaged lights and any appliances that use 12 volts (frig, water heater, furnace). Air conditioner(s) were probably not hurt IF they were not turned on. Your converter/inverter/charger is probably toast.

Good luck,

Lenp

[manholt]

Mattyboy, I would get a second opinion from an electrician, not a mechanic, about what needs to be replaced. Most insurance adjuster will simplify and low boy a claim if they can.

I hope you have an Insurance that knows about and specialize in RV's, not just cars.

Good Luck.

[BennieH]

Thanks huffy puff I did contact insurance .my electrican is taking responsiblity for it. But some mechanics are telling me that camper should b totaled and the guy looked at it thinks he will just replace every melted and burned bulbs in camper and call it done that scares me and my wife for the fire concerns.

The insurance adjuster needs to be involved and I would ask for a written signed statement that everything was found OK.

By the way, the wiring most likely is OK. All AC 120/240 wire is rated for 600 volts. It is the items plugged in that take the shot when the wrong power is applied.

[tbutler]

The referenced sites seem to be closed.

The site is working perfectly for me. I just used the reference in your posting and it connected right away. I visited the 30A page and the 50A page, finding no problems.

[kaypsmith]

The circuit breakers inside your coach should have done their job, and if they did the wiring should be fine. Also if any appliances were turned on at the time this scenario was a fact, the 50 amp in the breaker box where the black and white were wired incorrectly should have blown. An experienced electrician can conduct a simple test using a gfci breaker at each circuit at the breaker box, checking for leakage in all wiring inside the coach. If this test proves successful, I would not be concerned any longer. If there were any 120 volt light bulbs, and normally are not any inside a coach, but they will normally blow instead of a breaker because of low amperage. But I would certainly call on a qualified electrician for evaluation, and the insurance adjuster, if not qualified, will have one do the eval.

[Mattyboy]

So none of my appliance or an electrical items shouldn't be replaced. My refrigerator is going on and off there was smoke pouring out of the furnace hot water heater area and Ac won't turn on. Are there going to b future problems from this incident and should I just these items replaced to b safe.

[Lenp]

Doubtful that ANY of the breakers would have tripped. There was no excessive current - only excessive voltage. The excessive voltage undoubtedly damaged EVERY appliance that was connected. Inverter/converter/charger, refrigerator, microwave, Air conditioners (might be ok if they were not turned on but I would be suspect of them), coffee pot, TV, stereo (if powered by 120VAC). The 12 volt items (lights, furnace, etc,) MAY have been damaged IF the charger passed a surge but I would think the battery bank would have absorbed most of that, thus, the 12 volt side is probably ok.

You have not told us how the other wires in the "new" 50 amp outlet were connected.

Here is what it should look like with appropriate voltage readings:

If it was wired this way, nothing should have happened. But from your earlier post you noted the WHITE wire was connected to one of the dual breaker outputs. If the white wire was then connected to the outlet per the above illustration - you definitely had 240 across some appliances. However, if the "electrician" connected the white wire to one of the HOT terminals and the BLACK wire to the other HOT terminal, we have an entirely different situation. That is why I asked how everything was connected.

IF BLACK and WHITE were both hot (120 each to neutral and 240 across the two) and connected to the HOT1 and HOT2 terminals AND the NEUTRAL and GROUND terminals were connected to the appropriate (neutral & ground) at the distribution box, all was good. Electricity DOES NOT care what color the wire is - only that it is connected correctly.

Now, IF your "electrician" neglected to run a neutral line to the outlet, we have an entirely different problem called an OPEN NEUTRAL. This WILL cause a big problem in your RV. RVs do not have the neutral and ground wires bonded together in the RV linke they are in a house. Thus, when the neutral opens the two separate 120 circuits actually become one 240 volt circuit with most appliance seeing the full 240 volts.

Until you can tell us what the actual voltage readings are AT the plug, we are all really guessing at how bad your problem is.

I once helped a fellow camper who was on his second trip in a brand new fifth wheel. The connections in the rear of the 50 amp plug going into the trailer came loose. He took the plug apart and put it back together. Unfortunately, he crossed the neutral with one of the HOT leads and literally toasted every appliance in the rig (conveter, TV, stereo, microwave, water heater 120 element, and a few others). He had a good dealer and they got it all fixed under warranty.

Additionally, I had a neutral lead come loose at the pedestal end of the cord. Fortunately, I use a surge guard protector and it caught the fault and shut down power before it could do much damage. I did toast two surge protector outlet strips before I figured out what was wrong. Highly recommend getting a surge guard http://trci.net/products/surge-guard-rv/hardwires-portables/50a-portable-wlcd-display

Please, let us know what the voltages are on the plug if you can.

Feel free to PM me if you like. I can get a phone number to you if you want to discuss in detail.

Lenp

[kaypsmith]

That is correct Lenp, any appliances that was in the side carrying 240 volts would smoke, any appliances on the circuit that was not hot will be OK. My earlier comments only apply to the wiring in the walls. The appliances that were in the situation with 240 volts will be toast because their amp draw is less than the circuit breaker, they became fuses.