Bad Diesel Fuel

[JUDIELARRY@YAHOO.COM]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie on this site.

We have a 2005 Coachman motorhome with a 300hp Cummins with a XC Freightliner chassis. Has only 25,000 mi. on it. It sits a lot in a shed but the tank is always full and treated. We were recently on a trip to Florida and had filled up at the Flying J's on the way down. Our last stop was in lower Georgia. After we drove a short distance the engine started losing power under load and missing, we were able to make it to our destination.

I thought maybe the fuel filter had gotten plugged up so the next morning I purchased a NAPA filter and the counter person indicated that I might have gotten bad fuel with algae and that maybe I should add some biocide, which I did. Started the engine reved it up and idled fine thought everything was good to go. Stayed at that location for a few days. We left to go to another place 45 mi away and it ran good.

Stayed there for a few weeks and started home one afternoon drove for about 2 hrs and the engine started loosing power again on hills-- I could not get over 40mph. I had purchased a couple filters and some Lucas fuel injector cleaner prior to carry along, good thing I did. Also I purchased some Howe's treatment and gave it a good dose.

Changed the filter and it did OK for another 2hrs and the same problem. Changed another filter and parked for the night and filled the tank. Seems like when it would sit for a while or overnight it would do OK for awhile. Next morning it did OK but would hiccup occasionally on the steep inclines. We made it home OK and I was looking for the secondary filter which I found over the rear axle. It has copper lines attached, so I am going to change it out.

I had read another post if the fuel lines are taken apart the fuel will drain back into the tank creating air into the line. It looks like it is higher than the fuel tank. How would I prevent this from happening, should I try to plug it with something and I don't think I can prefill the filter since it lays horizontally on the frame.

Thanks for help, Larry

[wolfe10]

Larry,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

Check with Freightliner for the location of ALL fuel filters. You may have up to three-- the horizontal one, a primary and a secondary. Or must two the horizontal and final.

What did you find in the filters when you changed them-- was it black and slimy? black particles? water? dirt?

I always add a biocide (I use Biobor JF-- least expensive from Academy last I checked) if storing fuel over 2 months in the summer or 3 months in the winter.

As far as how to prime, need to keep the line from draining back to the tank, check with either Cummins or Freighliner-- you may have an electric primer pump that is capable of purging the air from the line. If not, you might park on an incline with the front/tank higher than the filter location.

[JUDIELARRY@YAHOO.COM]

Thanks for the reply Brett. I did check with freightliner and it does have 2 filters. I did open up 2 of the filters and found one had a small amount of black around the top of the filter and the other one had a white looking substance , not a lot, in between the folds, no slime, dirt or water noticable. I have used biobor in the past but not much so I think I'll have to use it more often as recommended since I had this problem. I have never changed out the secondary filter so that will get done asap. I did take it out today and traveled about 50mi to see of would drive normal which it did, buttttttt when it sat overnight before it would drive ok for a couple of hrs. and start loosing pwr., so maybe I have it worked out of the system.

[dickandlois]

Larry, do you know if you have an ISB-02 engine ? This series has a third filter installed along the drivers side frame - just behind the rear wheels and is very hard to find or see. The only series engine with this 3rd. inline filter. and around the correct year.

The information was issued in a separate PDF file and it gets missed at many of the service centers.

Rich.

[huffypuff]

The description of that filter is a small inline metal filter screen that we had trouble with when I worked with fleet. It soon became a regular part of maintenance once discovered.

[JUDIELARRY@YAHOO.COM]

Thanks for all the info from everyone. Rich the engine is a ISB, not the 02, I checked with Freightliner. I also called Flying J about the bad fuel and their reply was as I expected: No reports from that area of fuel problems.

My next question would be how would one follow up on this?

I''m sure it happens often.

[jleamont]

judielarry,

I had a similar problem just after we bought our coach last year (used). It started to lose power and I got lucky as I was backing into the driveway at home when it got bad, about 5 feet from my garage it stalled only cranked...no start.

I pulled the fuel water separator to find a black jelly substance in and on top of the primary fuel filter when I pulled it down; the jelly had a texture like shredded rubber and Jam that you would put on toast. I thought it was Algae but it turned out to be the fuel lines under the coach were deteriorating and it was the rubber from within the fuel lines. Brett saved me (Wolfe 10) when he explained how my fuel system was laid out, so it was easy to diagnose and put my head around what was happening.

My fuel system operates off of suction through the primary filter, then goes to a pressure pump on the engine, then onto a fine particle fuel filter on the opposite side of the engine bay and then to the fuel injection pump. So when the main supply line from the tank to the first fuel filter failed I was also pulling in air which is why it stalled (filter was almost empty). If you have a lift pump closer to the tank you may not stall but will push all of that junk into your filter which will cause low power, eventually you should see a fuel leak somewhere between the fuel tank and the first filter. The more I snooped around in the storage areas I could smell Diesel fuel, I lowered down the ceilings to replace the fuel lines and noticed the supply line had beads of fuel on it.

My coach was plumbed with Hydraulic hose for both the suction and return lines, I measured the distance and gave myself a few extra feet, went to our local hydraulic hose store and had them make me new lines, running them was a task but I was able to get it done on a Saturday. I was a Diesel Tech for 16 years so I had the tools to complete such a task.

I also replaced the fuel pump on the engine, according to Cummins it has been revised 5 times over the years for problems, I changed it just so I wouldn’t have to deal with it, depending on the year of your coach it may be the same pump as i recall it fit many years and several different engines.

My experience is after an engine sits the debris will drop off of the inside of the filter and sink, after you run it and create suction it will eventually pull the debris back onto the filter element partially blocking it resulting in a lack of power

.

[kaypsmith]

Not related to this thread, but jleamont's post above brought back an old memory. In the early sixty's, I drove a gasoline International R185 tractor/truck, for a glazing company. Making my way back from Macon GA, to Birmingham, the truck stalled.

I looked for problems, and found that someone had golfballed the fuel tank. When the gas worked it's toll on the ball, it came apart, looked just like rubber bands in the fuel filter.

[JUDIELARRY@YAHOO.COM]

jleamont,

What year and engine did you replace your fuel pump on?

As I stated earlier I have a 2005 Cummins 300hp ISB.

[dickandlois]

Not related to this thread, but jleamont's post above brought back an old memory. In the early sixty's, I drove a gasoline International R185 tractor/truck, for a glazing company. Making my way back from Macon GA, to Birmingham, the truck stalled.

I looked for problems, and found that someone had golfballed the fuel tank. When the gas worked it's toll on the ball, it came apart, looked just like rubber bands in the fuel filter.

Thanks Kay ! Now I'm going to have to place fuel theft springs in the filler lines!! Ah not really in our case as the fueling points are locked up.

Never got wind of that trick while growing up, but most people respected others personal property!!

Raised in an area of the county where many had to go into the woods to get meat for the table and some slime pickings on the table some days.

Rich.

[rickman]

Thanks for all the info from everyone. Rich the engine is a ISB, not the 02, I checked with Freightliner. I also called Flying J about the bad fuel and their reply was as I expected: No reports from that area of fuel problems.

My next question would be how would one follow up on this?

I''m sure it happens often.

As a retired driver in Canada I have always used KLEAN-FLO in my diesel engines, a little in the summer a lot in the winter. works every time.

[rickman]

I use KLEEN-FLOW all winter" best" . best for cold weather . I had a fuel problem on the way to Florida in Feb . Took filters off they were new. Emptied out half the fuel from each one filled with KLEEN-FLOW . Put a half a can in my fuel. No more problems. I use a little all summer also.

Rickman

[jleamont]

jleamont,

What year and engine did you replace your fuel pump on?

As I stated earlier I have a 2005 Cummins 300hp ISB.

My engine is a 2001 ISL. From what I was told by my Cummins rep the pump I have fit from 2001-2009 ISB,ISC,ISL,ISM,ISX.

The pump is located behind the fuel injection pump toward the rear of the engine (back towards the transmission). I got lucky when I removed the 2nd floor access panel I was staring down at it.

The dealer I bought the coach from paid for the pump, I just installed it, their tech didn't want to do it, nor did I trust him. I believe it was around $340.00.

[bthomforde]

Larry, I got fuel at the Jackson, GA Flying J on 3/22/15, it took about 30 minutes to put 97 gallons in, I "should" have stopped pumping but I was already there and never had issues with Flying J fuel, but after that I had to change fuel filters once so far and maybe more, we'll see.

I dumped the filters out in a pan but no sign of water ( I didn't cut it open to see about algae).

Is that where/when you got fuel?

[JUDIELARRY@YAHOO.COM]

Brian,

I had filled up on 2/25/15 in Lake park, Ga. and had filled up at Flying J couple of times North coming from Mo. I also never had a problem before at FJ. I did drain some fuel out of the 1st filter to ck for water and found none. When you changed out your filter did you have problems with the engine performance, not getting up to speed?

[gbrinck]

Once you have crud in the tank, you are going to go through a lot of filters until the crud gets all filtered out. The alternative is to have the tank cleaned and the fuel "polished" (filtered externally and returned to the newly cleaned tank). Adding more biocide or other chemicals doesn't get rid of the gunk in the tank and dead algae still accumulates in the filter and plugs it.

Changing the second (engine) filter may help, but usually algae doesn't get past the primary. The secondary filter is there to trap the ultrafine stuff that gets through the primary, and crud in the fuel is rarely fine.

[BennieH]

We filled up at the Lake Park FJ on April 4th on the way home. No problems at all. I haven't had any fuel issues (knock on wood) but I do keep 2 sets of filters on board all the time.

Hope you get to the bottom of this.

[obedb]

I used Flying J almost exclusively during the last 20 years of my trucking career and have never had any problems with their fuel. They pump so much fuel daily that it doesn't stay in the ground long enough to spoil. Their pumps are normally the fastest that you will find. Thirty minutes for 97 gallons suggests the pump filter was long overdue for change and that is uncommon, but the filter was doing it's job. Not saying that the J was not at fault, but I doubt it.

Now that we have a DP that sometimes takes us away from the high volume stops, I always fill a fruit jar with fuel and inspect it before I fill our tank. A small funnel gets the sample into the tank. I use Power Service and Lucas Injector Cleaner at every fill.

[jleamont]

Obedb I like your idea of the test jar! I will have to give that a try.
Thanks for a great idea.

[jrwitt]

Obedb ... I also like the test jar idea! What do you look for in the jar to determine whether it is safe to use? I assume you could see any water mixed with the fuel. What else shows up? Does the fuel change color as it ages?

Jack

[obedb]

I am looking for clear light green fuel. Water would be obvious because it is heavier than fuel. Any impurities would also be obvious. Off color fuel has been adulterated with crud you don't want in your tank.

[obedb]

One more thing about water. I once had a petroleum engineer tell me that water was a byproduct of the manufacturing process. Now that was in the late 70s when he said that. Still true? I don't know, but he said very small amounts were dissolved in the fuel only to settle out later. That is why we need fuel water separation of some sort on diesel rigs. I had excellent results with Racor units on trucks, but they are too big to install on my rear radiator Phaeton in a convenient place to check regularly. If I had a side radiator unit I would have one installed in the engine bay. They have a clear plastic bowl on the bottom with a drain petcock.

[wolfe10]

ObedB,

Racor makes a very wide range of size filters. Quite certain they have one that will work great as a primary fuel filter/water separator on your coach.

[obedb]

Popping the hood on an 18 wheeler is easy and done at every pit stop. Crawling underneath a low to the ground DP not so easy. My unit has only one filter. I have considered a Holley electric fuel pump with a spin on filter and return line to the tank or something like it. That would also take care of lost prime problems. Had one on my gasser, but it is noisy. Racor might make a filter for that unit. Input welcome.

[jleamont]

Obedb,

I have two filters on mine, but they are to the left and right of the engine and very easily to get at, easier then adding oil. I also thought about installing a kit.

I saw on a 5.9 Cummins with two fuel filters and a lift pump, since my pump is on the engine and the fuel tank has 38' of suction line going to the back it seemed to make sense. I was going to put it above the fuel tank which would make the serviceability very simple. My Cummins rep talked me out of it and told me to replace my fuel pump since it had several updates that made it much stronger with better suction capabilities. I figured it ran for the last 12 years this way without problems why redesign the fuel system and possibly cause another problem, plus that kit was expensive.