Is this a good buy for my house battery bank?

[rayin]

My present batteries are 5 years old and getting weak. i was looking at switching to 6V batteries and found these: https://www.impactbattery.com/us2200.html

You guys with a 6V bank, what is your considered opinion of those to replace my 3 12V batteries? The only thing is, I only have room for 3 gp 31 12V batteries and don't know if I can fit 4 of these in the same tray.

[richard5933]

For less money you can get a similar battery in the Trojan line. Not sure about the long-term quality of the ones you're looking at.

Keep in mind that you'll need to use 6v batteries in even numbers, putting the two batteries in each pair in series, and then running all the pairs parallel to each other.

The group 31 batteries I'm seeing online have approx 100 Ah capacity, so three of them would give you about 300 Ah total. The Trojan 6v T-105 has approx 225 Ah, so four of them in series/parallel configuration would give you about 450 Ah.

If you can fit them in the space you have, I'd go with the 6v.

[jleamont]

1 hour ago, richard5933 said:

If you can fit them in the space you have, I'd go with the 6v.

Absolutely! I'm sure you know how to wire them but just in case;

 

[wolfe10]

Looking at the diagram immediately above, that is NOT how I would wire it.  I would wire 12VDC positive from one "pair"-- say upper left battery and the ground from the other pair-- the lower right.

That way the electrons flow through both pairs instead of the upper ones doing the heavy lifting and the lower pair merely helping.

[rayin]

1 hour ago, wolfe10 said:

Looking at the diagram immediately above, that is NOT how I would wire it.  I would wire 12VDC positive from one "pair"-- say upper left battery and the ground from the other pair-- the lower right.

That way the electrons flow through both pairs instead of the upper ones doing the heavy lifting and the lower pair merely helping.

You are right! I am planning to wire the 2 pairs of batteries to a central terminal block,(equal length cables)then wire the coach cables to the same terminal block. I may be over-complicating this though, and do exactly as you state, which is the same as Mark Nemeth's red diagram on The 12V side of life. BTW, that's perhaps the best battery tutorial on the web IMO.

Richard, Trojan does not make a comparable battery for the same money.Their AGM battery for instance is only 205AH @ $300 ea. This one is 232AH @ $200, with 1yr warranty vs T 105 18 mos.

I am considering switching to 6V because 4 of these would offer 464AH and only be down to 1/2 charge-IF all discharged equally.  So  far they are the best bang-for-the-buck I've found on the web.

The downside is,one must order them delivered, the delivery charge may consume any price savings. This may turn out, buying 6V batteries,even though lesser AH, from the local golf cart sales and repair shop is the best source, plus, they make their own cables, which eliminates my attempts at DIY cables. OH, I must also buy a watering system whichever battery I purchase; if it will fin into the  compartment height.

 

[richard5933]

21 minutes ago, RayIN said:

Richard, Trojan does not make a comparable battery for the same money.Their AGM battery for instance is only 205AH @ $300 ea. This one is 232AH @ $200, with 1yr warranty vs T 105 18 mos.

Yeah - but the battery you linked to in your original post was not an AGM battery. Closest I can find for a US Battery AGM is about $280.  The AGM version of the Trojan T105 retails for about $300 and is rated at 217 Ah. Close to the US Battery, but I suspect that the Trojan is a better battery from what I'm reading online.

That Amazon price for a Trojan T-105 is way out of line with reality. Here's another for comparison: https://ressupply.com/batteries-and-enclosures/trojan-t-105-flooded-battery

You might be able to find Trojan batteries locally as well and save shipping altogether. Not sure where in the Midwest you are, but here in Milwaukee there are places that sell Trojan. I got mine at www.sbsbattery.com

[wolfe10]

If looking for golf cart deep cycle 6 VDC batteries, check with local golf courses/golf cart stores.   Be sure to verify manufacturer date.  Like tires, old is not good OR, to be politically correct "Less than ideal"!

[jleamont]

You don’t like my internet diagram? It’s on the Internet it must be true and accurate 

 

[huffypuff]

jleamont diagram is correct as wired as a pair of 12 volts as my coach house is wired.  Except I didn't cut the end positive cable when I posted it on the internet.  😂

[jleamont]

6 minutes ago, huffypuff said:

jleamont diagram is correct as wired as a pair of 12 volts as my coach house is wired.  Except I didn't cut the end positive cable when I posted it on the internet.  😂

You right, I should have put my reading glasses on and proofread it before I copied and pasted it. Thanks Puff .

Sorry for hijacking your post Rayin, looks like Brett got you on the right track.

[rayin]

1 hour ago, jleamont said:

You don’t like my internet diagram? It’s on the Internet it must be true and accurate 

 

OK, after I reviewed your wiring diagram, my configuration will look that, 4 batteries in a square formation. The difference will be, both + cables (of same length) will lead to a terminal block, same for - cables, as Brett said. The coach cables will attach to the  terminal blocks-if I can find some heavy enough to safely accommodate the maximum amperage of the batteries. If I can't find the blocks, I'll fabricate my own; should be a simple task for an old toolmaker, I already have a length of 1"x3" copper bar stock.

You guys realize this project totally depends upon what my financial manager decides. Her final decision may be to simply replace the 3 12V OEM house battery configuration. If that is the decision I plan to buy 3 Exide 12V Nautilus deep-cyle 200AH batteries.

[wildebill308]

7 hours ago, RayIN said:

The only thing is, I only have room for 3 gp 31 12V batteries and don't know if I can fit 4 of these in the same tray.

Are those deep cycle? I run group 31 start batteries. 

Ok, just how much do you dry camp? I went back with Duracell Golf Car Battery - Group Size EGC2  at about $125.00 each because I don't dry camp that much. The price of the Li batteries are coming down maybe they will get cheap enough later on.

Bill

[wolfe10]

I would look at deep cycle 6 VDC golf cart batteries from Sams, Cosco, etc.

[rayin]

1 hour ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

Are those deep cycle? I run group 31 start batteries. 

Ok, just how much do you dry camp? I went back with Duracell Golf Car Battery - Group Size EGC2  at about $125.00 each because I don't dry camp that much. The price of the Li batteries are coming down maybe they will get cheap enough later on.

Bill

Yes, the present 12V Exide deep-cycle batteries are the 5 yr old version of the hot link in my previous reply. By the time Li-On batteries get cheap enough for me to buy, I'll have to use them on my coffin.

[kaypsmith]

4 hours ago, RayIN said:

 

I am considering switching to 6V because 4 of these would offer 464AH and only be down to 1/2 charge-IF all discharged equally

 

1 hour ago, RayIN said:

3 Exide 12V Nautilus deep-cyle 200AH batteries.

What am I missing in this thread? Three 200 ah 12 volt batteries (same as original) = 600 ah. Four 6 volt at 231 = 464 ah (correct). I always thought that 600 ah is better than 464 ah, of course you haven't told us how much the 12 volt Exides will cost for an adequate comparison. And we already know that the 3 Exides will fit.

[rayin]

8 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

 

What am I missing in this thread? Three 200 ah 12 volt batteries (same as original) = 600 ah. Four 6 volt at 231 = 464 ah (correct). I always thought that 600 ah is better than 464 ah, of course you haven't told us how much the 12 volt Exides will cost for an adequate comparison. And we already know that the 3 Exides will fit.

There's the money angle, the 3 Exide 200AH stats will be 300AH available down to 50% charge, and cost $140 ea. That's $1.42 per AH. The IMpact 232AH @ $199.99 is $1.16 per AH; 26¢ difference per AH, before the additional expenses of new cabling, which is an unknown.

FWIW, the IMpact battery is made by U.S. Battery manufacturing Co. if you hover over the battery it is on the label.

I think you've sank my ship. When I show this to my financial manager she'll decide on staying with the present system.

[rayin]

I looked further into the IMpact battery made my U.S. Battery. Searching for the same battery ID number US2200XC2,

 I found a much better price (on that website) $139.18. The U.S. Battery battery specs appear to be great.

I answered my own question, that IMpact brand IS NOT a good buy. 

Kaysmith, this throws my money angle figures out the window, I'll re-figure tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone who offered their opinion and experience! I'm getting closer to being able to make an intelligent decision.

[kaypsmith]

Using your theory above, 3 @140.00 each = $420.00, then using 50% charge as the baseline (300) for figuring cost per ah = $1.42, my calculator says 1.40, then 4@ $139.00 =$556.00 and 50% charge =(232) ah, then 556.00 divided by 232ah = $1.853 per ah. Not trying to burst bubbles, just trying to compare apples to apples. Good luck in whatever you decide. One other small note, in my opinion, 200 ah @ 12 volts is better than 232 @ 6 volts, because 2 six volts to make 12 is still only 232 @ 12 v, so 2 X 232 is only 464 whereas 3 12's = 600.

[rayin]

OK, thanks for that. The new pricing figures threw my old stuff out the window.  I'm off tonight, I spent an hour on the phone with my cellular provider customer service-after a 20 minute on hold ordeal. The conversation wound up with me educating the rep on how my cell phone works, or rather is supposed to work. He closed by advising me to visit a local retail store and have them fix my problem. I'm gonna get off here and go have a conversation with Evan Williams from KY for a while.

[manholt]

Ray, I use NAPA AGM 6V, free shipping to store..I paid $300 to have my old ones removed and new ones installed, all 8 of them!  

[f433921]

Did you miss a few 0 in your total cost?

Jim

[five]

We have a friend who went the other way....four 6 volts to two 12 volt AGMs.  Never dry camps and has an all electric coach, works fine.

[rayin]

Decision has been made; we are staying with the 3 12V battery setup. Again, thank you all for your insight and advice. Kaypsmith's calculations made perfect sense to me, and my financial manager, especially since the price of having the cables made-to-order was not included.

Plus, I'm not going to have so much work to do to replace the battery bank; when retired, work is a 4-letter word ya'know.

[kaypsmith]

10 hours ago, manholt said:

I paid $300 to have my old ones removed and new ones installed, all 8 of them!  

I assume that Carl is referring to paying someone to do the labor for replacing the new batteries. LOL Carl, if that was the total for batteries and labor, please PM the address and name of that outfit, I'll drive to Texas myself for that deal. 

[manholt]

It was to replace, my battery bill was around $1,800...Ruidoso, NM..NAPA.