Harmonic oscillating front end

[elibedarn]

Three times a sever harmonic oscillating roll occurred.

The first time a single right lane through a construction area. Speed 50 MPH. Break away concrete along the far right road edge caused a front end oscillating event. My initial thought is a flat tire with rubber walking off the wheel. I came to a complete stop which stopped the event.

The second time it occurred when a truck/trailer cut in front at high speed exiting. The truck breeze alone set this action in play. Again I had to competently stop to end the oscillating.

Third time is after I installed new shocks on the front. This time the event began when driving through a major city where the road rise and fall left to right started the oscillating event. I made five lanes to the right shoulder where a complete stop was required before settling to normal.

Any causal factors you may think of is appreciated.

 

2001 Ford F-53 V-10 GAS 70K miles 34 foot 2 slides

[hermanmullins]

Could you tell me what you mean by "HARMONIC OSCILLATING FRONT END".

Sorry I have never heard of this before. ?

Herman

[jleamont]

7 hours ago, elibedarn said:

Three times a sever harmonic oscillating roll occurred.

I am guessing you experienced a sever steering vibration that you couldn't get under control until you came to a complete stop? Otherwise known as "Death Wobble".

[elibedarn]

Interesting thought. Cause?

I guide my RV where I wish to stop without steering wheel jerking left and right. I am not loaded differently than other trips. More thinking then locate a front end specialist near Denver. 

Thank you for your response.

 

 

[dickandlois]

I have to go along with Joe,  

Steering gear, Ball joint(s) or drag link. Would take the coach to a medium duty truck shop. This would cause an X access wobble The shocks tend to correct the Y access  motion.

Rich.

[elibedarn]

1 hour ago, jleamont said:

I am guessing you experienced a sever steering vibration that you couldn't get under control until you came to a complete stop? Otherwise known as "Death Wobble".

Googled, Death Wobble, and it sounds right. I will have the front end checked near Denver.

[elibedarn]

1 hour ago, hermanmullins said:

Could you tell me what you mean by "HARMONIC OSCILLATING FRONT END".

Sorry I have never heard of this before. ?

Herman

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/what-you-should-know-about-the-ford-super-duty-death-wobble/

[elibedarn]

18 minutes ago, elibedarn said:

Interesting thought. Cause?

I guide my RV where I wish to stop without steering wheel jerking left and right. I am not loaded differently than other trips. More thinking then locate a front end specialist near Denver. 

Thank you for your response.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/what-you-should-know-about-the-ford-super-duty-death-wobble/

I have never heard of Death Wobble. Thanks for your guidance.

 

 

[elibedarn]

19 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

I have to go along with Joe,  

Steering gear, Ball joint(s) or drag link. Would take the coach to a medium duty truck shop. This would cause an X access wobble The shocks tend to correct the Y access  motion.

Rich.

Thank you. I appropriate your response.  https://www.motorbiscuit.com/what-you-should-know-about-the-ford-super-duty-death-wobble/

[elibedarn]

Thanks to each of you. Happy to get expert guidance.

Any one have a recommendation for front end work at Thornton, North Denver? I can google search however if you have had a positive experience the advice would be appreciated. 

[rsbilledwards]

It is not in Thornton but down in Lakewood but Lakewood alignment. I have used them for years but under new management and ownership. Last time I was there most of the same crew were working. My F350 does this at times as well but I believe it is set off by a bad brake rotor as it occurs under braking and returns to normal without a stop. The article did not deal with a cause only with Fords lack of action. I had my son do a complete rebuild of the front suspension less the brakes, no change.

[jleamont]

90% of the time its a alignment Caster issue after the suspension has settled with age and mileage. 10% of the time the front axle track bar needs new bushings. Given the mileage you are at I would look underneath and have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth, see if there is excessive play in the track bar mounting on both ends. A thorough front end inspection is in order to make sure nothing is loose also, then its onto the alignment rack. 

Very common problem on a Jeep Wrangler or most vehicles after a lift kit has been installed especially if you do not have the Caster corrected. You can source aftermarket track bar bushings or a complete bar to correct the failure on Ford's end. From the factory those bushings are not robust enough for the application. 

[rls7201]

Death wobble is a known issue with solid front axle suspension systems. Ford addressed the issue with the steering damper attached to the tie rod. Your's is probably worn out. Also dynamic tire balance is a known cause of death wobble. http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=FD889E3A-1372-66AE-3BF245423CB4CA83
Poorly constructed, crooked,  tires will also cause death wobble..
If your F53 chassis had been lubed correctly and on time, there is little chance of component failure other than the steering damper. My 95 F53 with 170,000 miles, still has all the original suspension and steering components. You have kingpins, not ball joints as previously stated. Alignment is not your issue.

Richard

[moonwink]

The 2001 F-53 chassis didn't come with a front track-bar.  Track-bars became standard on the 2004 model year chassis.  I highly recommend installing one if you haven't already.  Use the blue "poly" bushings.

There has to be some "play" somewhere in the joints that allow the oscillations to continue.  Have all the tie rod ends and bushings and other joints checked for looseness. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by moonwink

[rayin]

44 minutes ago, RLS7201 said:

Death wobble is a known issue with solid front axle suspension systems. Ford addressed the issue with the steering damper attached to the tie rod. Your's is probably worn out. Also dynamic tire balance is a known cause of death wobble. http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=FD889E3A-1372-66AE-3BF245423CB4CA83
Poorly constructed, crooked,  tires will also cause death wobble..
If your F53 chassis had been lubed correctly and on time, there is little chance of component failure other than the steering damper. My 95 F53 with 170,000 miles, still has all the original suspension and steering components. You have kingpins, not ball joints as previously stated. Alignment is not your issue.

Richard

Caster and camber may be re-set on a solid axle/kingpins. Caster requires the use of wedges, camber requires the axle be heated and re-bent.

[elibedarn]

My unit has never had a damper. I ordered a Roadmaster steering stabilizer. Denver Spring and Suspension checked the front end with no negatives. Also checked alignment, no adjustments needed. Oddly the fourth time Death Wobble struck was exiting in Denver for my front end inspection. Dillion, CO to Frutia, CO to Bluff, UT to Williams, AZ no front end events.

Next move is Williams to Usery Mountain where five nights stay will permit hitch change out. The hitch came out of the receiver hitch dropping to the highway surface when coming down the rocky mountain western slope. Slight damage to my tow only because SMI did not provide a controller on the dash. Had I used my old Blue Ox I could have radio braked my tow to keep it from running into my RV as I slowed to the shoulder. The brake away cable pulls the length or more than my tow cables so no setting of brakes there.  Most likely lucky it did nothing.   Saving grace here is an RVer in the left lane recognized my issue and held traffic while I guided off the right shoulder on to a truck brake check point. Thank you whomever you are! And Thank each of you for your input. Very kind of you. Safe travels.  

[aztec7fan]

Maybe totally different, but on several Isuzu box truck we used in our fleet, we encountered this problem, and it turned out to be the king pins.

[elibedarn]

On 9/19/2020 at 1:19 AM, aztec7fan said:

Maybe totally different, but on several Isuzu box truck we used in our fleet, we encountered this problem, and it turned out to be the king pins.

 

On 9/19/2020 at 1:19 AM, aztec7fan said:

Maybe totally different, but on several Isuzu box truck we used in our fleet, we encountered this problem, and it turned out to be the king pins.

Home now. I will have a local shop check the king pins. According to Denver Spring and Suspension they are good. A second opinion is in order. Two death wobbles occurred after installing Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer for Class A motorhomes. 

[elibedarn]

73 yrs old and never heard of Death Wobble. Where have I been. In 2 months of travel I experienced 7 Death Wobbles. 2 occurred after installing Roadmaster Steering Stablizer. Front inspection by Denver Spring and Suspension found nothing. Alignment is good. No adjustments needed, no defects found. I will have a local shop reinspect the front end. If nothing is found I will move on to tire balancing. I tow four down however I changed from a light weight vehicle to a Jeep Trail-hawk. The only change since my last outing. Does towing four down have any steering effects, push, pull, that may be a causal factor?

Thank you each for your input.

 

[moonwink]

Sorry to hear of your continued problems.  I've been driving the V-10 F53 since 2001 (two different MHs) while towing 4 four down and haven't experienced the problems you describe.  I have been disappointed in getting the tires balanced which was a problem in the early 1999/2000 models.  There was a TSB 00-21-09 covering that problem and I've attached copies here.  One of the main reasons for the problem back then was Ford didn't know which of 4 wheels you had.  In fact you might not have all the same wheels.  The wheels were not hub centric or lug centric.  The the lug holes in the wheels came with different sizes.  The only way to center the wheels on the hub was to use guide pins.  I gave a Ford dealer 125 miles from me (the Ford Motorhome Warranty phone center set me there) 2 tries to fix my out of balance problems under warranty and they failed.  They had it 3 weeks the first try and 4 weeks the second one.  I had 9 tires and wheels - a tag axle and a spare.  They replaced at least 3 wheels and 5 tires (Goodyear 670RV) failed to pass tests and were replaced.  It still bounced after all their work.  When it needed tires, I went with Bridgestone R250 tires and that helped.  Ford fixed the problem for the 2001 and later chassis by going to hub centric wheels.

You're (unfortunately) the first one I've heard with an oscillation problem on this chassis.  I still believe there has to be some slop there somewhere that allows the wobble to continue.  I experienced that problem on one of my cars back in the 1960s and I know it can't be ignored.  Slowing down was the only thing that helped bring it to a stop back then.  It was a signal the front end needed an overhaul with new ball joints and bushings.  The F53 uses kingpins that should last almost forever given a shot of grease with every oil change.  There are 9 grease fittings on the F53. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Moonwink

[campcop]

From what I have read here, you have had the front end checked a few times and no one can find a problem. Has anyone checked the front tires and rims for runout or broken belts in the tires? 

[rayin]

Now that I got signed in, I read the link elibedarn posted, the answer is in that article:

"A recent class-action lawsuit filed in 2019 (Lessin v. Ford Motor Company), says the death wobble is caused by a defect linked to abnormal wear or loosening of the track bar bushing, damper bracket, ball joints, control arms, shocks or struts. The California Consumer Attorney state, the lawsuit “alleges that Ford knew that components within 2005-2019 F-250 and F-350 suspension systems are prone to failure, but failed to notify customers or even properly address the problem.” 

[moonwink]

I'm not sure the F53 chassis front end is related to the F-250 or F-350.  The F53 has no ball joints - It uses king pins and a solid front axle.  Better make sure that class action covers your chassis before signing on.

[rayin]

2 hours ago, Moonwink said:

I'm not sure the F53 chassis front end is related to the F-250 or F-350.  The F53 has no ball joints - It uses king pins and a solid front axle.  Better make sure that class action covers your chassis before signing on.

That leaves tie-rods and ends, improper castor and camber, or an inadequate total alignment, loose steering gear, inadequate shocks. I once had an alignment guy tell me a solid front axle's camber or castor cannot be changed, which we know is incorrect; I've watched it happen.

Edited October 5, 2020 by RayIN

[elibedarn]

Tail wagging the dog. If you tow four down; Jeep Cherokee years 2014, 15, 16, and 17 have an issue with deactivated electronic steering.  The fix is an additional wiring harness, MOPAR part number 68321424AD. Cost install including part is around $500 USDs. 

I thought my RV was the cause. Through this process I installed front shocks in Michigan, Had front end components and alignment checked at Denver Spring and Suspension, nothing found. Near San Antonio a Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer for Class A Motorhomes was installed. Two additional wobbles occurred following the steering stabilizer install.

A story in July 2016 Motorhome issue titled, "Jeep Cherokee Wobble" included the fix.

Over the 10k miles traveled this summer Death Wobble occurred seven times. I saw the Jeep wobble in my dash camera but thought the RV was causing it. So the tail was wagging the dog! 

Other than the 7 wobbles, a 5/8 pin gave way permitting the tow hitch to fall while going over the Rocky mountains near Dillon. Flagstaff to Mesa a spark plug blew out of the V-10 engine. A rock crack in the Jeep windshield. My generator exhaust broke into. Icing on the cake is a ticket for failure to use my turning signal in Marquette, Michigan when driving my tow car.  RVing is not for the faint of heart!

 

Thank each of you for your input.

I am uncertain what is posted below. Hopefully it does not interfere with this posting.