RV Tire Recommendation

[wildebill308]

1 hour ago, wayne77590 said:

Yes, I'm thinking some of it can be polished out but then I have to find someone to polish it for me.  Whare are you parked?

Insurance paid off my totaled MH and gave me enough for a good down payment on newer one for me.

Progressive insurance has a plan where in the first 5 years they will replace the MH with an equivalent from the same manufacturer. After 5 years they give you what you paid for it.  After 9 years I was in the later category.  We did alright.  What they offer is basically the same as GAP insurance...and you never need it until you need it and in our case it paid off.

I had given thought to taking the tires off the 2008 but there was no way I could personally do it myself and it would have been another cost for us to have someone do it.  Then, how do they tow it off.   Hey, it is what it is and then it is what you make of it, rght?

I was thinking just pull the new one up next  to the old one and swap them. There might be a independent road side assist  tire guy for not to much. 

Call Motorhomes of Texas and see what it would cost for them to buff out the swirl marks. I think Carl had some work done there.

It sounds like you made out ok. Lots better than a lot of people down there. It is hard to wrap your head around how many cars were damaged. Hear is one storage place with only 30,000 cars. of possibly  500,000 in the storm track on the golf coast

http://autoweek.com/article/nhra/houston-area-drag-strip-dumping-ground-30000-and-counting-hurricane-harvey-damaged

They areal ready auctioning them off to guys that fix them and resell them.

Bill

 

[elkhartjim]

Hijackers

[elkhartjim]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:39 AM, tireman9 said:

White cover or a mesh screen will keep the tire cooler which will increase tire life. I have posted the test results on my blog. Keeping the temperature down will also extend belt life and there is no tire treatment that can do that.

Can you publish any real time data to substantiate this claim? Are you suggesting if we only drive at night when the tire temperature is cooler and no uv rays that our tires would last longer? How much longer? That is the question I continue to ask and so far you have not been willing or able to answer that.

I'm only being persistent because you're the only self professed tire expert on this forum that seems to think covering a tire will increase the tire life and I would like to know by how long.

Thanks.

 

[wolfe10]

Well, with Roger (Tireman9) being a retired tire forensic engineer,  guess I would kind of go with his observation on this.

Not sure how he or anyone else can give definitive proof on tire  longevity-- many variables and not sure there are"sample sizes" of RV's with covered vs uncovered tire life.

But, I don't think any would question that minimizing harmful influences would increase tire life.  Both UV and heat have long been known to negatively influence tire life.

SOOO, anyone volunteering to cover one tire on the side of the coach that receives sun light and leave the other uncovered??

[elkhartjim]

Thanks, Brett.

He just keeps repeating covering your tires will extend service life. Common sense tells me that but I would like to know the cost (my time), benefit (extended tire life) for me.

I guess Roger is like a pathologist that performs autopsies.  I guess he has data for failures but nothing to backup longevity.  Maybe I'm looking for a cardiologist. And you exactly correct, without samples of covered and uncovered tires its just an assumption tires will last longer if covered. I've never seen a tire manufacturer state something to the effect, "if you cover your tires you shouldn't need to replace them for X years but if uncovered. continue with the recommended replacement in Y years.

Thanks. 

[manholt]

I suppose that also means we should wash all the road toxins off our tires before putting the covers on?  I have not covered my tires in the past 39 months, since I had them put on in OR.!   I guess that I'll take some pictures off each tire 39 months from now! 

[wolfe10]

Carl,

That would work, ASSUMING that tire degradation is linear.  Suspect it is not and that when new, they are better protected by the emoluments.

[rsbilledwards]

Once again we are probably dealing with 1/10s here.  The increase in life span is probably negligible with in the time frame we are considering. One would probably have to be far more diligent in keeping them covered than most of us are. I for one think that the manner in which one parks the coach or what ever wheeled unit is being dealt with, is more important to the life of the tires. That is, if it is always parked in the same manner, with the same pair of tires facing the sun, those will show the deterioration sooner than the opposite side.  This then brings common sense into the big picture, which tells me that those facing the sun should be covered. Another point to consider would be for those who make the decision to buy the lesser priced Chinese manufactured tires, might benefit greater from the practice of covering their tires.

I bought some Salen 235 R85 16 all steel belted tires for the 24 foot enclosed Featherlite trailer I pull. These are a Chinese tire and are one of the few (2) remaining all steel belted and side walled tires on the market with Michelin being the other. Salen was priced under $200 per and Michelin over 300 and close to 4. An observation I have made having had the Salens now for 15 months is that they appear dry. They are not black, but chalky from the sun exposure/environment of the Colorado high country sun. I have made the decision to make covers for them as they will likely be on the trailer longer than the tires on the coach.  I had Bridgestone V Steels, which are no longer produced, on a big flat bed trailer for 15 years before they began the exterior fracturing. 

[rayin]

My experience with the effects of constant sun exposure; my box trailer sits parked E to W, it hasn't been moved in 3 years. The tires on the South side of the trailer have sidewall cracks, the tires on the Norths side look like new.

When I bought new Sailun tires for our MH, I also bought new tire covers. I already had my proof sun damages tires.

Edit: I don't buy the "ozone damages tires so cover them" theory because there is no practical way to  prevent ozone contact without shrink-wrapping them.

[richard5933]

5 hours ago, RayIN said:

My experience with the effects of constant sun exposure; my box trailer sits parked E to W, it hasn't been moved in 3 years. The tires on the South side of the trailer have sidewall cracks, the tires on the Norths side look like new.

When I bought new Sailun tires for our MH, I also bought new tire covers. I already had my proof sun damages tires.

Edit: I don't buy the "ozone damages tires so cover them" theory because there is no practical way to  prevent ozone contact without shrink-wrapping them.

About the only thing missing from your equation to fully test things is movement. I've read on many manufacturer's websites that actually rolling down the road on the tires helps keep them from drying and cracking. Of course, rolling down the road causes tread wear...

Would be interesting if we could find some research which shows the difference between life of a mounted/weighted tired in the sun vs. in the shade vs. stationary vs. in motion. This will be on my list to research when I have my next sleepless night. There's got to be something posted on this somewhere.

[manholt]

Since we, unlike OTR's, buy tires long before we wear out the treads, that's not part of our equation!  However the rest is.  

[wolfe10]

11 hours ago, RayIN said:

Edit: I don't buy the "ozone damages tires so cover them" theory because there is no practical way to  prevent ozone contact without shrink-wrapping them.

I agree.  Covering them protects them from UV light, not ozone.

There may be a "test" that at least gives us some useful information. 

Look at duals-- the inside tire is not exposed to UV light, but does run hotter than the outside tire and likely will have been exposed to more petroleum products (nearer sources of grease and oil and never cleaned off).  Compare cracking on them.

[richard5933]

4 hours ago, manholt said:

Since we, unlike OTR's, buy tires long before we wear out the treads, that's not part of our equation!  However the rest is.  

Not a question that few of us put enough miles on our tires to actually run down the tread enough for that to be the primary reason for replacement.

My point was in response to a post from someone that has not moved their trailer in three years. From my reading, sitting in one place and not actually going down the road from time to time is bad for tires. Without a proper study I could not quantify this, but I have read that the compounds in the rubber do better if they are flexed and warmed from use, at least occasionally. Some tires are also prone to developing out-of-round issues if parked for extended periods of time in one place.

Over the years I've restored and collected a number of vintage and classic cars. The one thing that universally seems to do the most damage to the vehicles overall, including everything from mechanical systems to rubber components such as tires/hoses/belts is lack of use. In 1993 I purchased a '68 Cutlass with only 2000 original miles. The tires looked brand new, but the rubber was stiff and hard and had definite flat spots. The vehicle was stored indoors and was preserved as well as could be, but some things on a vehicle just do better when they are used.

Not trying to negate the effects of UV exposure (my tires are covered right now as best as can be), but to point out that there are many factors that contribute to premature tire failure. I'm sure there are industry studies on the topic, and I'll see what I can dig up online.

[five]

Re sun exposure.  In Dec 2010 we bought a new 2009 MH.  Naturally we did not see it until we'd owned it for a while, but it had been sitting so long facing south, the large wall opposite our big double windows, facing the west Texas sun, had faded.  In May 2015, the RF tire blew out.

[elkhartjim]

2 hours ago, FIVE said:

Re sun exposure.  In Dec 2010 we bought a new 2009 MH.  Naturally we did not see it until we'd owned it for a while, but it had been sitting so long facing south, the large wall opposite our big double windows, facing the west Texas sun, had faded.  In May 2015, the RF tire blew out.

Did you happen to get the date code of the blown tire? The tire was minimally 6 years old but most likely was 7 years old or more. Did you only replace the blown tire or all of them?

I keep wondering about Tireman, he has been noticeably absent since all the questions have come up. 

[manholt]

Richard.  Your right about cars sitting and not getting exercised enough.  As Jay Leno said.  "I take a different car out once a week"!  With his massive collection, I presume he has a lot of employees doing the same!

Cars, Motor Homes, Boats and houses, have the same thing in common...if you don't use them often enough, you'll lose them! 

[five]

20 hours ago, elkhartjim said:

Did you happen to get the date code of the blown tire? The tire was minimally 6 years old but most likely was 7 years old or more. Did you only replace the blown tire or all of them?

I keep wondering about Tireman, he has been noticeably absent since all the questions have come up. 

Yes, it was an 08 tire.  Emergency road service replaced the one that blew (an $800 Michelin)...then we traded the coach.

[richard5933]

5 hours ago, FIVE said:

Yes, it was an 08 tire.  Emergency road service replaced the one that blew (an $800 Michelin)...then we traded the coach.

Wow - $800 for one tire? We paid about half of that for the tires on our coach from Goodyear, and odds are they are a lot larger than what you replaced. I know it's off topic a tad bit, but this is a good reason to always have a spare mounted and ready. Emergency service is probably the most expensive way to have to purchase a tire. I'd never want to change a tire and install the spare myself, but it would sure save having to pay emergency service markup for the tire.

If you had the tires in the Texas sun and possibly had the reflected UV rays from the windows adding to the damage, it's not totally surprising that the tire failed earlier.

One of the things on our pre-trip inspection is to examine all seven tires. I like to get close and personal with our tires to do this. I need a flashlight to find the inner valve stems on the rear duals, so I take the opportunity to inspect all sides of the tires with the flashlight while I've got them out. Sometimes the extra light is needed to see the early signs of cracking between the treads or alongside other lines molded into the tires. I tend towards OCD, but in this case I think it's a good thing.

[tireman9]

Observation about Cardiologist is reasonable, but my Dr has never offered  "every dinner of fish you eat instead of beef will extend your life x days"

For tires, one reality that few consider is the large variation in temperature across the US and even across some states. I have covered the effects of temperature on rubber properties and life in my RV Tire blog. This is one effect that does have a formula for the chemical reaction rate and breakdown of the "cross-link density" which is a measure of the elasticity of rubber.

So while the amount of time you spend with the tire at 80F vs 90F vs 100F  etc etc will change the reaction rate and could theoretically be used to predict tire life. But you can't even make a generalization such as "I spend all my time in Arizona". Does that mean Phoenix or Flagstaff?  Remember just parking your RV in the shade in Cleveland, OH will age a tire faster than a year in the shade than Flagstaff AZ.

While this can give an indication of the upper limit of the structure what further complicates the prediction of "life" is the fact that the load on each tire means the forces are different and the 'stretch" of each tire is also different  As the stretch increases the creation and growth of molecular level cracks also increases. It's these cracks that can lead to a belt separation. Increase the load and two things happen. The tire runs hotter (shorter life) and the rubber stretches more (shorter life)

Tire technology is constantly changing with new tires or updated rubber compounds hitting the roads monthly so even if you managed to run a controlled test you would probably be developing out of date information before you finished the first round of testing.

But if you want to give it a shot at developing a predictive model, I suggest you start with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and go on to a PHD in organic chemistry. While you are at it raise enough money to build an enclosed test track the size of Indianapolis Speedway. Your testing for tire durability will only cost you about $1 a test mile.

I for one would love to see your data.

 

RE taking care of your tires. I can't comment on how much effort you need to give to taking care of your tires as only you know the value you place on having uninterrupted travel or protecting your family from harm. I fear some are looking for some hard and fast numbers but in my experience life seldom provides the level of certainty some would wish for.

 

[elkhartjim]

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Posted 10 hours ago

"But if you want to give it a shot at developing a predictive model, I suggest you start with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and go on to a PHD in organic chemistry. While you are at it raise enough money to build an enclosed test track the size of Indianapolis Speedway. Your testing for tire durability will only cost you about $1 a test mile."

Interestingly enough, Tireman, I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering.

[manholt]

Quote

BS in Mechanical Engineering and PHD in Organic Chemistry.

I have neither, just a Petroleum Engineer and I only have 2 years in Physics and advanced math...like quantum reality.  Oh well.  We did however get a partial answer...that there really is no answer!  Yea, I forgot, heat and stretch, that in itself will produce more of the same, exponentially.

Ho, hum

[wayne77590]

With my ever going degree in the SOHK, I'm out of the equation. Put air in tires to desired amount, take air out when necessary.

KISS principle.

(SOHK = School of Hard Knocks)

[elkhartjim]

1 hour ago, wayne77590 said:

(SOHK = School of Hard Knocks)

Best degree in the world, Wayne.  I worked with many PhD's during my career and a few even admitted that it stood for piled higher and deeper.  Common sense goes a long way in solving problems and its sad that seems to be going by the wayside.

[tireman9]

On 12/2/2017 at 7:33 AM, elkhartjim said:

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Posted 10 hours ago

"But if you want to give it a shot at developing a predictive model, I suggest you start with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and go on to a PHD in organic chemistry. While you are at it raise enough money to build an enclosed test track the size of Indianapolis Speedway. Your testing for tire durability will only cost you about $1 a test mile."

Interestingly enough, Tireman, I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering.

(Sarcasm) Good to know. Then you can probably develop the fatigue behavior and life predictions for rubber bands including every size and all possible uses of said bands. See how easy a task would be with a single material item. Now do that with a tire that has 15 to 20 different rubber compounds and you would be good to go.  Oh ya you also need all the tire companies to share their secret formulas too.. (Sarcasm)

I have covered the effects of temperature on rubber properties based on the chemical reaction rate change due to temperature in the posts on tire covers. The problem is we are not talking about the chemical reaction rate in a constant temperature location.  Even with a formula how would you go about determining the temperature history of all the different components of a tire when different parts of a tire run at variable speed & load in variable  temperature chamber may have over 150F range. 

 

 

Easy question.  So is developing the Theory of General Relativity..... not

[tireman9]

On 12/1/2017 at 5:52 PM, richard5933 said:

Wow - $800 for one tire? We paid about half of that for the tires on our coach from Goodyear, and odds are they are a lot larger than what you replaced. I know it's off topic a tad bit, but this is a good reason to always have a spare mounted and ready. Emergency service is probably the most expensive way to have to purchase a tire. I'd never want to change a tire and install the spare myself, but it would sure save having to pay emergency service markup for the tire.

If you had the tires in the Texas sun and possibly had the reflected UV rays from the windows adding to the damage, it's not totally surprising that the tire failed earlier.

One of the things on our pre-trip inspection is to examine all seven tires. I like to get close and personal with our tires to do this. I need a flashlight to find the inner valve stems on the rear duals, so I take the opportunity to inspect all sides of the tires with the flashlight while I've got them out. Sometimes the extra light is needed to see the early signs of cracking between the treads or alongside other lines molded into the tires. I tend towards OCD, but in this case I think it's a good thing.

When I was doing "failed tire inspections" I had a stand with six 4' fluorescent lights plus a work light with 75 watt bulb for checking the interior. You really need "flat" light that few "flashlights can provide. You could try THIS light but as I point out in my post on tire inspection you also need to "feel" the complete tire sidewall and tread area and rotate the tire as covered in my blog post on Tire Inspection.