Firearms

[hayesfamily]

I typically carry a handgun, .40 S&W or a .357 Magnum if I am in some places. I think a shotgun sometimes is a bit much and my goal is to stop someone once they are in the coach - which we are talking about protecting a 35x8 foot box. 

My concern is the liability --- maybe someone can chime in on this or maybe someone already has. If the campground states ABSOLUTELY no firearms is that just absolving their liability should I have to introduce someone to the sheriff or is that potentially put us as gun owners and carriers at risk of the sued by the campground? 

[dp26]

State, and possibly local laws, will likely be the controlling rules. For instance, it may be there is no carry violation on private property until asked to leave (even if posted with signs), and it might be basic trespassing. Could be it is an actual carry violation. Signs do not always have legal weight...

Way too much for a non expert to wade through. Relying on some sort of service to provide information, then verifying for yourself, as best you can, is what I suggest, along with appropriate insurance policy and legal defense policy/coverage.

Concealed is concealed, both visually and verbally...

[hayesfamily]

1 hour ago, dp26 said:

 

Concealed is concealed, both visually and verbally...

The golden rule in my house and the coach is what goes on in here stays in here and that goes for who is packin what. 
I typically wont carry walking around the resort or a campground where families are. I mean, lets face it, if i felt it was that bad I would not go to the campground. 
When I go shopping, to the bank in town, or where I have to carry cash, different ball game. 

I guess it kind of like state parks saying no alcohol, if it is in your coach and not in public its fair game. 

[ispjs]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:12 PM, manholt said:

Roland, 4 foot jump on me, he would miss by about 6 inches!

Punxsy, give him twice the love...you both need it now!

Joe, Linda (my SO) suggests wasp spray & a swift kick...use your imagination!

Have never had a problem in any of the 48 states with a gun in my coach.  Have no tickets, been thru countless tire checks, mirror under coach and dog checks inside and out!  When their dog inside, I was asked to remove my dog first...no problems, never any question about "do you have a rifle or pistol"!  Someone is Paranoid!

 

Guess I could have tried a kick, he was so big and drunk I probably would have just broke my foot though.  Since it was the middle of the night and there were no other humans around for 20 miles I just stepped back and verbally told him what was about to happen.  He must have believed me because he cuffed himself after I tossed the cuffs over.

[hayesfamily]

ISPJS ... if it's not an invasion of your privacy I would like to ask where were you when you got searched with the dog? I've heard of things happening on I-40 what checks to make sure you aren't smuggling illegals but what prompted somebody to bring a dog on board? I probably would have said no and called my lawyer. 

[ispjs]

It wasn't me on I-40 having a K-9 run through my coach.  I think that was Carl.  Based on my LEO experience though there could be circumstances where a K-9 could be ran inside a RV on a roadside check point.  For example, if the K-9 was ran around the outside of the RV for a "free air sniff" and detected the odor of narcotics, then they may elect to put the dog inside without a warrant.  

Legally when it comes to search and seizure, an RV is a slippery animal.  When you are driving and mobile on the highways it is more or less considered a vehicle.  Once you park it off the road for the evening and start fixing a drink it is considered your "home".   There are many circumstances where an officer could search a vehicle without a warrant but there are not many circumstances where an officer could search your home without a warrant.

Maybe Carl will jump in here and tell us more about his adventure when the K-9 assaulted his RV.

[wayne77590]

Did Carl have a pork chop  around his neck?

For us, it doesn't matter. If LEO wants to come into my MH I don't have a personal problem with that.  As for the dog, well, my dog is not friendly with other dogs but I'm sure some accommodations could be made.

Carl, I missed the dog story if it was you.

[blakeloke]

2 hours ago, wayne77590 said:

For us, it doesn't matter. If LEO wants to come into my MH I don't have a personal problem with that.  As for the dog, well, my dog is not friendly with other dogs but I'm sure some accommodations could be made.

Interesting post and it looks like many of us are of similar mindset.  We too carry firearms when we travel.  We're always mindful of local laws and are appropriately legal.

Past dozen years or so, we've traveled I-10 from between TX and CA at least once a year and sometimes 2 or more times per year.  Only once LEO has entered our coach and that was with a dog.  That was at, what we call "checkpoint Charlie" in West TX eastbound.  No problem with our pets vs their working dog and no alerts on our firearms and/or ammunition.

Blake

[obedb]

Before I retired in November of 2011, I remember an article on a Maryland news website about a Florida business owner with his wife and children in his car, really given a hard time by a Maryland police officer. Maybe Harbor Tunnel police. They were on their way to NJ for a wedding. Before things were finished multiple backup officers were involved. His wife was in tears as were the kids. Door panels were removed on the side of the road and replaced all supposedly looking for a gun. Turns out the owner had a Florida Concealed Carry Permit and the officer was able to run the tag and find that out. Apparently Florida allows that information to be given to out of state police. He did not have a gun with him, but he couldn't convince the officer that pulled him over of that.

The article mentioned that he said he would never return to Maryland. That is why I am very careful when I am in anti gun states. We live 4 miles from the MD state line. I have to briefly cross into MD to get to a Royal Farms convenience store that is actually in PA. Reason I sometimes go there. Absolutely great fried chicken and western fried potatoes. Betty requires it.

[five]

I sure hope they don't come up with an alcohol smelling dog in non alcohol states.

[wolfe10]

1 hour ago, FIVE said:

I sure hope they don't come up with an alcohol smelling dog in non alcohol states.

OH,,,,,, Stop whining. 

Ya, spell check "kills wine ing" every time.

[obedb]

There are no non alcohol states. Pretty sure that Arkansas was the last. The governor threatened to shut the stills down if legal spirits was not approved on a referendum. Then it could be taxed. 

[rayin]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:16 PM, HayesFamily said:

The golden rule in my house and the coach is what goes on in here stays in here and that goes for who is packin what. 
I typically wont carry walking around the resort or a campground where families are. I mean, lets face it, if i felt it was that bad I would not go to the campground. 
When I go shopping, to the bank in town, or where I have to carry cash, different ball game. 

I guess it kind of like state parks saying no alcohol, if it is in your coach and not in public its fair game. 

Us too!

[wayne77590]

Oh gosh! Texas plates are the worse. Every one in Texas owns a gun, don'tchaknow!

[cwswine]

If I was in the Lake of the Qzarks RV Park when shoots were fired and sure wouldn’t want to be in my coach with a can wasp spray or getting my dog shot or putting on my wing tips to kick the guy.  I also won’t run around the park with a gun try to find the guy but I would lock load my S&W Governor pistol with six 410 personnel defensive shotgun shells and stop someone with a gun from entering my coach and threaten my family.  I probably in my life time be faced with a gunman but i’m Sure the two killed in the Ozark RV Park thought the same thing.  The world is changing and not for the better.   

 

[TimeTraveler]

Let's hope National Reciprocity passes.

Plate Readers are becoming ubiquitous. They don't automatically, as of now light up i is shows CCW permit. However they can query if they want to, say if you have an NRA sticker on your window or who knows what, maybe just your lucky day.

Get stopped and they will query all about you.

They have NLETs and other databases, to ind out anything in minutes.

Relative who does shows at schools, and  CCW, got rear ended  in Maryland. Cop ask where his gun is in the vehicle. Says I could take it and many will just keep it out of sight.

New Jersey, it is not for sure they will honor National Reciprocity.  As it is they will take your gun and lock you up for a long time as declared by their Senator Mendez, "All CCW Carriers would be locked up for  long time, if they cross the border into NJ.

I have seen way too much criminal activity, in the Southwest just from the road, and outside RV Parks. Major drug and human smuggling corriders on I10, roads up to I40 to the Mexican border in Az, NM and Texas, into and out of California. It would take a while to tell some of the more interesting stories.

Kids lived in red Rock for two years before losing jobs, home, cars and real estate. In that short time the new Development became inundated with the Drug Cartel or Mexican Mafia.

It is only good sense to provide for your own safety, which means firearms carry and knowing how and when to use and when not. Just don't advertise and stay out of places that criminalize Firearms Ownership and Bearing Arms.

Now we have to cooperate  and fix the problem of persecution and prosecution by places like NJ.

[wayne77590]

I find it strange that traveling in the Southwest renders all types of criminal activity.  We live in the Southwest, or Western States depending which map one is looking at, and we have traveled all over the Western, Midwestern, Southeaster, well heck we have traveled and camped in 46 of the 48 contiguous states. Never have we witnessed any criminal activity.  it would be interesting to hear those stories. I sure don't have any to tell.

[manholt]

I'm with you on that one Wayne.  Heard of and read about it.  Guess it depends on where you camp, Wall Mart or $50 Resorts!  If I went to FamCamp by invite, all guns would be at home, I would probably only have a sling shot and a bag of 3/8" SS balls and a couple of rocks...can't throw a knife!

The "Dog Story", re read it and I guess I did not go into enough detail.  It happened and has happened since, at Border Patrol Check Point's run by Customs officials...they ask if I have a dog, then ask me if I would please remove it and then they enter with a drug dog!  Last time (I don't have a dog anymore, yet) they went in with 2 dogs, one for drugs, one for bomb.  I have never denied them access and if ever a LEO K-9 want's to, I would not deny them either!  Every time  I take the Bolivar Ferry, I get the mirror thing!  It's what it is today!  Thank you 9/11/01 & El Chapo! 

As for Linda and Wasp Spray, she also has a carry permit and her weapon of choice is a .38 S&W and a 2 shot .25, very proficient with both and where she carries them, I have no clue!  

[ispjs]

Just a word of caution about drug sniffing K-9 teams.  The misconception is that these dogs are detecting the actual drugs.  They are simply detecting the odor of certain things they have been trained to detect.  In my experience we certified/trained our dogs on cannabis, cocaine (rock/powder), meth, H, and several other illegal substances.  But my partner was just detecting the odor of those substances, it didn't mean the actual substances were still present.  In other words if someone smokes a joint in your front passenger seat and then the next morning you get stopped and a drug dog takes a sniff he may alert on that area.  Much depends on how sharp the handler is and how much he trains with his/her dog.  

Drug sniffing K-9 teams are just like anything else, there are really good ones and then there are not so good ones.

[manholt]

Joe S.  I understand....Have no friends that smoke left handed and only one that has his own coach, W. Nelson!

I have been blessed by professionals!  

[TimeTraveler]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:19 PM, wayne77590 said:

I find it strange that traveling in the Southwest renders all types of criminal activity.  We live in the Southwest, or Western States depending which map one is looking at, and we have traveled all over the Western, Midwestern, Southeaster, well heck we have traveled and camped in 46 of the 48 contiguous states. Never have we witnessed any criminal activity.  it would be interesting to hear those stories. I sure don't have any to tell.

All I can do is report what  we observed, along I10, I40, the area around Tucson,Az, Red Rock Az, Deming NM, and Texas.

I will take a while. Once incident at an RV Ranch east or Kingman. We noticed at the entrance' "Vagrants" apparently looking for handouts. Since this is now years ago I don't think it will affect anyone and not want it posted.

It was cold We had rain dirt storm and snow. On exit and reentry these Folks, were still there but numbers seemed  to change. They endured a lot off horrible weather. One morning mid night would be closer, we hear a Huey, I think right over the RV. Then there were a couple more. they let and again right over us. Next am we went down to the office. The Hueys had used the large parking lot as an LZ. The Vagrants, a bit further toward the entrance, across from a fuel stop were gone. I won't go into all the details but they  Vagrants were Agents.

The authorities seized a lot of dope and people that night at the fuel station.

They come up from I10 near Case Grande to I40 and from there to Vegas and other points.

That is one instance.

Another time going to where our kids lives in Red Rock we observed a Mexican bus along side the road empty. There were many people who had left the bus making their way to a side road. Pickups and cars were picking them up. Saw apparent discussions discussions as to how much and one instance the Mexican hand some bills to the driver of a Pick up.

A little bit further on a car along side the Interstate. The Diver was patiently cleaning all his glass with a cloth and Windex. Waiting to give someone a ride I suppose.

Coming from Red Rock to Tucson for evening out. A lot of authorities around a mattress along side the Interstate. We had seen it twice maybe in going and coming. It had a body stuffed in it.

At Red Rock going to see our kids  from our RV Park near the State Park.

Young kids jumped out of a car and down a ditch or whatever and headed out across the desert. That evening or next saw a car sitting there and kids coming out of the desert across the ditch with heavy backpacks.

During the three or four trips in 2012 and 2013 to the kids, near Tucson and relatives in Kingman we observed a lot more. Much more than we wanted to know.

In 2001 first trip to Phoenix, relative in hospital. a new Dodge 2500 diesel, perhaps the most comfortable seats we have ridden in, not the new ones.

Went to one of the nicer Stake houses, we understood in town. I cam back out to the truck to get Wire's  purse. good think I did. I see a old white Dodge Pickup with a bunch of scrawny bug eyed Mexicans in back and in front. As I headed back in they swarmed our truck. I went back and ran them off. They were going to challenge me. Waited until they disappeared down the road .

When we cam back out they had punched the locks on both sides of the truck and pried the rear window.

Took all our clothes and medications including insulin, cooler, soft drinks, and everything but left the Nikon camera, took the case though.

Spent the next entire day getting into Phoenix Va system and getting replacement drugs, and buying some clothes.

Policeman and his son came to our motel that night and took report.

So many cases they don't handle these low priority cases.

At all the small and larger malls, of duty Police and private Security constantly circling the lots, in little pickups at a pace that would wear me out in a n hour.

Niece is a Deputy Sheriff, also Life Flight Nurse and now ER Nurse (Don't remember that title) for the worse cases,  also VA  and teaching Nursing, in Las Vegas.

She handles stuff that would make strong men cry and wretch.

She has countless stories of new lawless west.

This is just a scratch in the surface.

[TimeTraveler]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:19 PM, wayne77590 said:

I find it strange that traveling in the Southwest renders all types of criminal activity.  We live in the Southwest, or Western States depending which map one is looking at, and we have traveled all over the Western, Midwestern, Southeaster, well heck we have traveled and camped in 46 of the 48 contiguous states. Never have we witnessed any criminal activity.  it would be interesting to hear those stories. I sure don't have any to tell.

Up late so some more.

SIL Ground Fault Locator Supervisor, he and AT&T trying to locate a large cable that was cut serving a few thousand homes. In the hills west of Tucson. A Border Patrol Agent pulls up. says leave now. They explain the situation. He says no you don't understand leave now. He says why. Agent says you see those eight dots off in the distance. They are Drug Runners and they are carrying AK47s. They see the yellow beacon on the AT&T truck. They are headed or it. They think it is for them.

Another At Red Rock on the way to the kids new home. Turn o the Interstate access road and across the little bridge. Two Dirt bikes, run around us and stop in front of us where the road goes right and left.  Guy on right hands a bundle to the guy on the left, and he zooms out o there. The other guy on the right sits there a minute. A Highway Patrol nearly wrecks us, going around us. We try to tell him the guy with whatever, went to the left but he desn't understand and chases down the bike on the right, and on a wild goose chase.

In Casa Grande the Mexican shops. They charge twice or same cheap goods to us as they do to the Mexicans. Wife is buying a cowboy hat.

Truck pulls up and sit there after they look around for a long time, two women get out and enter the shop, all the time scanning around them. they enter the shop and in a minute one comes to the door. They go back in and and two Mexicans who haven't worked ever, by profile get out slowly all the time scanning every direction thoroughly. they enter thee shop and the two women come out and stand around scanning the whole are with great attention.

Finally the men come out and they all leave quickly in a cloud of dust.

I don't know, since it is not my by area what is going on but it wasn't wholesome.

Red Rock Two stations one carries some Native American pottery, which we buy.

I drive over to the other station for fuel because the Shell is out. A van pulls up and young women get out. They are in a bit of a state.

They approach our SUV, When they see me, they know it is not whoever they want.

Another Van California plates, pulls in. Those people walk over  and bring them to their van. They change clothing and head by toward California. Thee other van leaves down dirt side road . Back up at the Shell engage a local in conversation. He said it is relay point.

The bring loads of  illegals there and Vans and other vehicles from California and Nevada, Utah and so on pick them up for the next leg of their journey from Mexico to brothels and other places that , pay to bring them in  to work.

Next time New Mexico and more Az then Texas.

You wonder why everyone is armed in Az now.

As far as your alertness to your surroundings, well I cannot comment. I noticed ad my wife noticed as well as Relatives, and People in the RV Park near the State Park .

I would just as soon  not seen it or heard of it. I have a whole lot better agenda.Fishing, Sight Seeing and Antiquing and so on.

[manholt]

TT.

"Former Military and being observant"?  You should know that everything is relevant to your MOS. 

As for the rest.  If your looking for it, you seem to be, your going to find it.  I have stayed at the Blake Ranch RV Park, behind Petro off I-40, top of the hill, east of Kingman, AZ. the same one your talking about, for month's at a time, between 1996 and 2007...Never had any such incident as you describe!  I was an associated member of Kingman Elks 457 during that period.  Also the Kingman 4 wheeler club and we covered every trail of off roadeing for a 100+ sq. miles...nothing.  Same with Ajo, AZ. and the Sonora Desert (they are out there, but then I'm not, at night), it's the El Chapo drug corridor, from Mexico Hwy. 2 to I-8 and beyond.   

Closes encounters I have with illegals, is them coming on my or my neighbors property in west Texas, NE or Del Rio.  Seen their lights at night or maybe it's Customs.  Never anything missing....I'm there for about 10 days hunting a year!  I keep a 30 foot bunk house trailer there, got electric, well water and septic...have never in 37 years locked the door!  Guess I'm not the Paranoid type!

 

[ispjs]

I lived outside of Las Cruces NM back in the early 70's.  Used to be able to drive the 50 miles or so to El Paso and cross the border.  I could have dinner, shop, and drink in any bar in Juarez, no problem.  Not anymore.  

Between 2010 and a couple years ago we have made several trips out west to include Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc..., one of those trips was on a Harley Ultra Classic and all 2 lane roads plus second rate motels.  Never felt threatened nor did we witness any crime and on that trip we were all over Arizona.

I consider myself very observant and I am probably 100 times more suspicious of folks than the average person, however I have never felt threatened or unsafe traveling out west.  I guess it is just different perceptions by different people.

[TimeTraveler]

Well We didn't feel threatened but wife was plenty nervous at two instances. No one pointed a gun at us.

Perceptions? Observances, No deductions needed.

Tsk tsk. Should I be insulted?

I'm not going to take it ,as insults, from either of you Folks. Perhaps we will sit around the campfire sometime.