Surge Guard Cutting Shore Power Off?

[eric@babin.com]

I'm having an issue with shore power shutting off randomly, a few times per day.
We just arrived at a new park yesterday and it started shortly after we got plugged in.

I should mention I have a portable "surge guard" plugged in between shore power plug and my cord. That surge guard shows all green lights, even as shore power in the RV cuts out.

After some google research I "think" it may be my surge guard / ATS. I have a 2017 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 36U. The surge guard / ATS is a Surge Guard Model 40350 RVC Automatic Transfer Switch.

Background: There appeared to be intermittent loud humming from the area of the ATS in the recent past. It doesn't seem to be "humming" anymore.... just making a fairly loud "clunk" as it shuts off interior shore power, and then later (random amount of time each time) it makes the same "clunk" when interior shore power comes back on.

It has done it with very little load. No A/C or heater on... maybe pulling about 3 to 4 amps. Since it is so recent I don't know if it will also do it under load.
Speaking of "load". Back when it was "buzzing" it appeared the buzzing pulled a load. Nothing on except for maybe the fridge and it would jump from 3 or 4 amps to 11-12 when the buzzing started.

I should also mention it seems if I cut the breaker at the shore power tower off then back on, the shore power in the RV return

I have an appointment to bring it into the shop in mid-January..... just don't know if this a big enough issue to worry about right now. We are full time and travel / move frequently. (about every week)

[coffeetrader]

I had a similar problem and it ended up being a bad transfer switch (the one making the thunk sound. They don't have a great life span. 

I went through blaming the power source, the surge guard and it was fixed when the switch got repla ed.

 

Good luck

[eric@babin.com]

I understand a short lifespan... but heck.... the RV is 6 months old!  Although we are living in it so maybe that speeds up the death of parts? 

I've got an appt. at Rev Group for January and hope we can hold off until then. 

[cwswine]

I was told by Fleetwood Support that the transfer switch was also a surge protector in my coach.  They said that placing two surge protector that are capable of regulating power will/could confess the Surge guard and could cause damage to the transfer switch.  I have the same one in the picture above left over from my 5er days.

[eric@babin.com]

CWSWINE - If I understand you correctly... I shouldn't have the portable surge protector plugged in? I should only use the coach's built in protector? 

[cwswine]

23 minutes ago, ERIC@BABIN.COM said:

CWSWINE - If I understand you correctly... I shouldn't have the portable surge protector plugged in? I should only use the coach's built in protector? 

That is what Fleetwood Tech support told me about my coach.  Now I don't know if yours is the same as mine.  Hopefully some one with more knowledge than me will chime in and explain why you should or shouldn't use two surge protectors. 

[dickandlois]

Eric, Do you turn off all the 120 volt loads before disconnecting from shore power? 

All loads should be turned off before starting the generator.

The current load on the ATS will cause arching across the contacts when powering up and when powering down with high current loads turned on. The arching will destroy the terminals in a short time. 

By leaving on high load when starting the generator, also can weaken the Generator circuit breakers over time.

Rich.

[dickandlois]

8 minutes ago, cwswine said:

That is what Fleetwood Tech support told me about my coach.  Now I don't know if yours is the same as mine.  Hopefully some one with more knowledge than me will chime in and explain why you should or shouldn't use two surge protectors. 

What is the Make , Model and year of your coach. Also what model surge protector was installed by Fleetwood?

Rich.

[eric@babin.com]

It's a 2017 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 36U

The ATS is :   Surge Guard Model 40350 RVC

I normally have most of the load off prior to going back and forth.... although I think in the beginning I probably cut it off and on with a load (AC etc) (we've had the coach about 6 months, purchased new).

[dickandlois]

6 minutes ago, ERIC@BABIN.COM said:

It's a 2017 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 36U

The ATS is :   Surge Guard Model 40350 RVC

I normally have most of the load off prior to going back and forth.... although I think in the beginning I probably cut it off and on with a load (AC etc) (we've had the coach about 6 months, purchased new).

Thanks for the info.

This is a link to a PDF file that should cover the unit .

http://trci.net/media/167833/40350 troubleshooting guide 505-00114a.pdf

When it passes inspection look for other possibilities. With a good OEM surge protector install, the installation of an aftermarket; very well could be over kill.

From working in the production world, there is the possibility of missing little things when there is a shift change, end of the day. Those items missed then go out the door and the dealer inspections only test the operation of the systems - if at all !!!!.

When I was a line technician or engineer. My standard - if the manufacture did not have one, was to supply every one of the assemblers with a clipboard with a build sheet - the installing was then the responsibility of the person doing the job and signing off, that the job was completed.  That way I knew - how, when and what items where finished. Sometimes I needed to walk someone to HR for a little pep-talk !!

The fact that you coach is so new, I would have the dealer go through all the electrical connections to make sure they are tightened to the proper torque. The reasoning is - that as you drive down the road  things will loosen up and one has intermittent connections that cause different levels of damage - depending on where the  connections are located.

Good to get it done before the warranty expires and if needed setup a factory service visit.

Rich.  

[cwswine]

1 hour ago, DickandLois said:

What is the Make , Model and year of your coach. Also what model surge protector was installed by Fleetwood?

Rich.

My coach is 2017 Discovery LXE 40D and the coach in at factory repair in Texas so not sure about the brand but I do believe that right next to the power cord reel there black box with 'Surge Guard" label on it and come from the factory that way. 

 

Off Topic --- We brought our coach to Fleetwood Factory Repair to get it done right.  We need a recall on the awning done and our kitchen counter was lose.  They reattached the counter to the outside wall and screwed 13 screws thought the wall and sticking out on the outside of the coach.  Now it's in the body shop getting repaired.  So much for getting it down right.

[dickandlois]

23 minutes ago, cwswine said:

Off Topic --- We brought our coach to Fleetwood Factory Repair to get it done right.  We need a recall on the awning done and our kitchen counter was lose.  They reattached the counter to the outside wall and screwed 13 screws thought the wall and sticking out on the outside of the coach.  Now it's in the body shop getting repaired.  So much for getting it down right.

Dennis, Service in Decatur, IN.?

Rich.

[eric@babin.com]

39 minutes ago, DickandLois said:

Thanks for the info.

This is a link to a PDF file that should cover the unit .

http://trci.net/media/167833/40350 troubleshooting guide 505-00114a.pdf

When it passes inspection look for other possibilities. With a good OEM surge protector install, the installation of an aftermarket; very well could be over kill.

From working in the production world, there is the possibility of missing little things when there is a shift change, end of the day. Those items missed then go out the door and the dealer inspections only test the operation of the systems - if at all !!!!.

When I was a line technician or engineer. My standard - if the manufacture did not have one, was to supply every one of the assemblers with a clipboard with a build sheet - the installing was then the responsibility of the person doing the job and signing off, that the job was completed.  That way I knew - how, when and what items where finished. Sometimes I needed to walk someone to HR for a little pep-talk !!

The fact that you coach is so new, I would have the dealer go through all the electrical connections to make sure they are tightened to the proper torque. The reasoning is - that as you drive down the road  things will loosen up and one has intermittent connections that cause different levels of damage - depending on where the  connections are located.

Good to get it done before the warranty expires and if needed setup a factory service visit.

Rich.  

Yes.... we have an appointment at RevGroup in Alverado TX (The Fleetwood Factory Repair next door to MHSRV where we purchased it).

The appointment is for mid-January when we are back in that area.  I always make an appointment with our service advisor Brian Dunn months in advance even if nothing is wrong at the time. It is so difficult to get an appointment with them I just make one for the next time we are passing through and then send the list of items that mess up during our travels.    We all know "it's always something" so I just make the appointment knowing there will be issues 60 days down the road.

 

[manholt]

If your close to Decatur, IN.  That's the manufacturing plant.  Texas is a Service Center, that's only as good as the local help.  Not Amish.

[hermanmullins]

If you go to Alverado ask for your kiss when you get there. You will get &^%ed there. 

Herman 

[five]

3 hours ago, manholt said:

If your close to Decatur, IN.  That's the manufacturing plant.  Texas is a Service Center, that's only as good as the local help.  Not Amish.

 

59 minutes ago, Hermanmullins said:

If you go to Alverado ask for your kiss when you get there. You will get &^%ed there. 

Herman 

These two posts are my experience exactly.  Decatur was great, fixed what they were supposed to fix as well as another item I did not even mention...without charge.  I've been to Alvarado three times...horrible experience, didn't fix what was to have been fixed, attempted to fix other items that didn't stay fixed and refused to order parts until I got there...thus they never arrived.  When the part finally arrived they mailed to me (because I was on a schedule and left) and I fixed that problem myself.  Hope I never have to go there again.

[kaypsmith]

It certainly sounds as though there is an issue with the ATS side of the surgeguard/ATS, it could be as simple as a loose connection within or just before this unit. Have you tested the unit using only the generator? If it works correctly, then there could be a bad connection inside the ATS, or even in the power line between the portable surge guard and the ATS. I would even go as far as trying a different campsite hookup just to eliminate the possibility of intermittent problem with that CG pedestal.

[moonwink]

Eric, One of your pictures shows a "WIRING STATUS ERROR" NEUTRAL = GROUND

Have you tried asking what that error indicates?  Call the mfg and ask them. 

[manholt]

Quote

Wiring Status error neutral =ground

It tells you exactly what it say's, you have a bad ground...could be loose or corroded.  Dealt with that yesterday on my SO coach, took ground wire off Transfer Switch and cleaned it, found a new place on frame, drilled a new hole for attachment off bolt and nut, tightened every thing up...she has no problems now!  Before working on TS, make sure all electric connections are off, disconnect from power source or YOU WILL BE THIS YEARS CHRISTMAS THREE !!!

You also show one battery at 7A and one at 13.0 and inverter is on with a 1amp draw from AC...the 7A is dead and needs to be replaced.

[kaypsmith]

14 hours ago, Moonwink said:

Eric, One of your pictures shows a "WIRING STATUS ERROR" NEUTRAL = GROUND

Sorry that I didn't notice this also. Are you by chance plugged into a 30 amp pedestal with using converter pigtail from 30 to 50 amps? This error is telling that somewhere along the line something is wired so that the neutral is now what is feeding the L1, should be 120 more less, and that now the neutral is what is feeding the ground. Now you stated that the portable surge guard is indicating "all clear", meaning that the CG pedestal is ok. This means that something is miswired between the two surge guards, or of course that one surge guard is not correct, this highly unlikely since it was working before. Please let us know if your RV is 30 amp or 50 amp, and also what is the amperage at the campground pedestal, 3 prong plug = 30 amp, 4 prong plug = 50 amp.

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:34 AM, ERIC@BABIN.COM said:

I should mention I have a portable "surge guard" plugged in between shore power plug and my cord. That surge guard shows all green lights, even as shore power in the RV cuts out.

 

[manholt]

Kay.  My bad, I didn't catch that either...got to re read this, since it's 2 posters on same subject but different problems.

[eric@babin.com]

Here is an update.

I have a 50 amp coach.

I've put a 30amp adapter on and plugged into the 30 amp plug on the same pedestal.

Since I've plugged into the 30 amp we have not had an issue.  We're running on 30 amp which isn't a big deal since we won't need 2 a/c units.

So, I "assume" it's the 50 amp circuit on the pedestal that is the issue.

-\

[wolfe10]

Easy to test IF YOU ARE SAFE WORKING AROUND 240 VAC:

Outer straights are the hots (L1 and L2)

Center straight is neutral

Center round is ground.

SO:

Either outer to center straight or center round= 120 VAC

Center straight to center round= 0

Outer straight to outer straight= 240 VAC

[kaypsmith]

It is not clear why the portable surge guard is not seeing an issue, but it appears that the CG pedestal probably is miswired. By using the pigtail 50 to 30,  you have eliminated either L1 or L2 from the CG pesestal, because the pigtail uses only one of the CG 120 volt legs, then redistributes one 120 leg to both L1 and L2 going to your coach.

As Brett posted the proper way to test the pedestal, either use that method with a VOM (volt ohm meter), or if you are uncomfortable testing 240 volts, you surely need to make the CG host aware of the situation and ask that it be corrected, even though you have gotten a work around for now, please do it for the future tenants of that site. Also, if the vom test proves the CG is defective, I believe that I would in the future, not rely on that device.

[wayne77590]

I’m with Kay on this one.  I'd bet a $1 to donuts that it is the pedestal. 

One time in a CG we pulled in hooked up to 50amp and shortly thereafter AC would not work.  Check the surge guard and one leg had a voltage error reading of low voltage. With that particular surge guard it meant that it dropped to the low limit of the surge guard.  Called the manager and they check the pedestal and surge guard was right.