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ISX valve failures

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I read on one of the forums that several years ago Cummins finally admitted the ISX had valve problems.  They fixed it by changing the ISX from 650 HP to 600 HP plus some internal changes.

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The ISX also had Ceramic plunger failure within the fuel injection pump that would send ceramic shards into the crankcase and would ultimately destroy the engine. These were all HP ISX, I can’t seem to figure out the year range. The ones I had experience with were 450hp and around 2009. They did eventually redesign the pump, not sure what year.

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13 hours ago, manholt said:

FIVE.  IMHO, 650 to 605. The 600 was before the 650!  

Carl, I can only address Amer Coach, but in 2013 through 2018 the ISX was 600...excluding model year 2014, when AC did not offer an ISX.  Cummins came out with the 605 in 2016, but AC just started using it (as a 605 and not a 600) in 2019 model year.  We saw the new 605 at Spearfish in August.  A number of our members have the 650 in earlier model coaches, usually Heritages, and have had problems.

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My ISX 650 has been rebuilt 3 times in 58,000 miles. Last time was pre emptive as Cummins couldn't tell me if they used the upgraded parts in 2015. After disassembly the Cummins shop said it was only a matter of time before it broke a valve off. The #6 liner was acidcetched enough to feel with your finger and the others were showing some problems. Only had about 6,000 miles since the last rebuild in 2015. Late wife had liver cancer so we didn't get out much.

Driven about 5,000 miles since the rebuild earlier this year and it is running much better than ever before. In 4 years I've spent $53,000 for engine repairs.

Premier RV in Junction City OR has had two break valves off and the big Foretravel dealer in Nokadoches (sp?) has had one. My CC is #6999 and I know the owner of 6998 '09 Veranda and his broke in 2016 at 12,000 miles. I've reported it to NHTSA and one other site.

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On 10/3/2018 at 4:03 AM, FIVE said:

I read on one of the forums that several years ago Cummins finally admitted the ISX had valve problems.  They fixed it by changing the ISX from 650 HP to 600 HP plus some internal changes.

Actually they fixed the CM871 EPA 2007 models by redesigning the valves with new, stronger materials, redesigning the head and new programming. They also came out with new carbon scraper liners and matching pistons which I had installed in mine.

Edited by deenad
Year changed from 2017 to 2007

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To my knowledge the old ISX 600 & 650 was the same engine.  Also, the last CC models that came off the assembly line, was after going Bankrupt in early 2007!  The CC Veranda came with a 500 or 600, non of the 500's had problems!  A friend bought the 500 Veranda for $290k cash, brand new...no warranty!  Sold it in 2014 for $395k & bought a CC 2005, 630!

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It was ALL ISX models that had problems, the problems depended on HP or year. 

The problems were different depending on HP. higher HP had Valve problems. They ALL had Ceramic Plunger issues with the injection pumps (this was based off of the engine year, not HP), camshaft issues and the list goes on.. below are a few examples on lower HP engines. 

Example 1; https://highwayandheavyparts.com/n-12896-cummins-isx-problems-and-failures.html

Example 2; http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-163822.html

Example 3; https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409873

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On 7/30/2019 at 3:23 AM, manholt said:

To my knowledge the old ISX 600 & 650 was the same engine.  Also, the last CC models that came off the assembly line, was after going Bankrupt in early 2007!  The CC Veranda came with a 500 or 600, non of the 500's had problems!  A friend bought the 500 Veranda for $290k cash, brand new...no warranty!  Sold it in 2014 for $395k & bought a CC 2005, 630!

Actually CC produced up through at least May 2008, which is when my Magna with ISX 650 was produced. The highest number of Magna I know of was 7032, which also had an ISX 650 and has dropped a valve in #6 twice. Being fixed by Cummins this week with a reman engine.

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Deen.

They all (Monaco) produced new coaches, after BK, until they ran out of chassis...without warranty.  2007-10 on CC, 2009 on Beaver, 2008 Holiday Rambler, not sure about Safari but suspect 2007.  Most makes & model's was bought by Navistar, who sold to Allied and it's still owned by Allied who turned the Motorhome division over to REV Group, who today also have Renegade, Fleetwood & American Coach (div of Fleetwood).

Tiffin and Winnebago, did not file for Bankruptcy!

CC, Beaver & Safari, was not resurrected, by Navistar or Allied.   

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Read the truckers forums,  for more information. Talked to the owner of a HDT repair shop today about the ISX problems. He said they are now sure the  NOX reduction stuff(SCR) required be EPA was causing the problems. He went into great detail, describing what the inside of a failed ISX looked like; I cannot remember everything he detailed. A company in Florida figured out how to delete that, and was widely advertising their work. A trucker was caught without it, admitted where and who did the delete. The company was fined $200,000, then required to go back and re-install everything on every truck they worked on, to the tune of approx $6 million, they filed bankruptcy instead.

That's what I was told, true? I doubt the man would lie about something that easy to verify if one wanted to spend the time.

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Ray, scroll back up & read Joe  L. post...he's the expert.

bm02tj.  Conservationists are fanatics, most don't have a clue,, except for second & third hand information...Had to deal with them all the time, when I was working.  EPA is a bloody disaster...

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5 hours ago, manholt said:

Ray, scroll back up & read Joe  L. post...he's the expert.

bm02tj.  Conservationists are fanatics, most don't have a clue,, except for second & third hand information...Had to deal with them all the time, when I was working.  EPA is a bloody disaster...

OK, what I was told is inline with what Jlamont posted. That shop owner said when they took apart this one particular ISX,they had to chisel out the deposits on the EGR valve manifold opening.

I have no dog in this fight, however, it sounds to me like  a class-action is overdue.

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The 600 & 650 is now the 605 and I have heard nothing bad with it.  Have a lot of friends with that engine in both Newmark & Tiffin, they all run 15k to 20k miles per year!

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OMG, that's a lot of engines in the X series to chose from, low to high HP, high to higher Ft. Lbs!  I'm impressed.  I looked at the X12, 450 HP at 1750 Torque!  WOW  That's 500 lbs more than the old 400 series at 1250...question is, can you run it with the Allison 3000?

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