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We currently have a 2019 Tiffin Red 33aa.It has 360 horsepower and 800 torque. Gross weight of this coach is 32k.We had a sale person contact us about a Tiffin 2019 bus 37ap. 450 horsepower and 1250 torque.Gross weight is 41k.The Red is 10k for towing and i belive the Bus is 15k.We have a jeep that weighs 5500 hundred pounds.Would both coaches pull it close to same?Or would it make a big difference getting the bus. Also it seems they are only asking 280k otd for the bus.It is still new.Thanks

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Chrisk22, usually more HP/torque is required due to a heavier coach. Your numbers above reflect that. So to answer your question they would probably pull similar. 

Drive both and report back what differences you observed. 

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Crisk22.

I had a 2011 Allegro Bus 37, 450 Cummins, 4 slide out & it's night and day to compare with a Red...Get the Bus, you'll be glad you did.  

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jleamont , i test drove the Bus.I did not feel that much difference.As for more upgrades(bus) in the coach it for sure has that. I have not towed my jeep behind it , or either for that matter.The handling appears to be similar.If it would be a big difference i may consider.

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4 hours ago, manholt said:

Crisk22.

I had a 2011 Allegro Bus 37, 450 Cummins, 4 slide out & it's night and day to compare with a Red...Get the Bus, you'll be glad you did.  

Manholt are you saying it tows better or is just better in upgrades?

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The Red 340 is Cummings 340 HP, 600 Torque, 7,500 Tow, 2500 Allison, 100 cu ft storage, 90 gal fuel.

The Bus 37 is Cummings 450 HP, 1,250 Torque, 15,000 Tow, 3000 Allison, 180 cu ft storage, 150 gal fuel.

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Crisk22, I had a feeling the performance wouldn’t be much different due to the weight of the bus, it soaks up all of the HP and torque. The bus would give you better resale, more storage (tanks etc) probably real wood cabinets which is all a plus but a what cost??. 

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6 hours ago, manholt said:

The Red 340 is Cummings 340 HP, 600 Torque, 7,500 Tow, 2500 Allison, 100 cu ft storage, 90 gal fuel.

The Bus 37 is Cummings 450 HP, 1,250 Torque, 15,000 Tow, 3000 Allison, 180 cu ft storage, 150 gal fuel.

Manholt the 2019 Reds are 360 horsepower with the allison 3000 transmission.

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19 hours ago, Chrisk22 said:

We currently have a 2019 Tiffin Red 33aa.It has 360 horsepower and 800 torque. Gross weight of this coach is 32k.We had a sale person contact us about a Tiffin 2019 bus 37ap. 450 horsepower and 1250 torque.Gross weight is 41k.The Red is 10k for towing and i belive the Bus is 15k.We have a jeep that weighs 5500 hundred pounds.Would both coaches pull it close to same?Or would it make a big difference getting the bus. Also it seems they are only asking 280k otd for the bus.It is still new.Thanks

I have read all the responses in this thread and I want to go back to your first question. First I would you take a deep breath and not get to excited by the coach the salsman is trying to sell you. It is nice but it may not be the best one for you. 

Have you driven a Newmar yet? I would try to find a Fortravel to test drive. Just to give you a better feeling for how different coaches drive. 

Back to the towing the jeep question. I don't think you will be able to tell it is back there unless you see it in the rear view camera. 

Bill

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4 minutes ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

I have read all the responses in this thread and I want to go back to your first question. First I would you take a deep breath and not get to excited by the coach the salsman is trying to sell you. It is nice but it may not be the best one for you. 

Have you driven a Newmar yet? I would try to find a Fortravel to test drive. Just to give you a better feeling for how different coaches drive. 

Back to the towing the jeep question. I don't think you will be able to tell it is back there unless you see it in the rear view camera. 

Bill

Thats what im thinking also.La Mesa has ordered the Blue ox and patriot braking system. Should be here in a week.

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2 hours ago, jleamont said:

Crisk22, I had a feeling the performance wouldn’t be much different due to the weight of the bus, it soaks up all of the HP and torque. The bus would give you better resale, more storage (tanks etc) probably real wood cabinets which is all a plus but a what cost??. 

They have one 2019 Bus 37 ap left at La Mesa. We test drove it and the electronic console kept going out. By the time we got back to the dealership the navigation also went out. This i believe is there first year with electronic gauges Again we did not see a difference in handling compared to Red..There asking price out the door on coach(Bus) was $288k. I paid $188k for the 2019 Red.

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7 minutes ago, Chrisk22 said:

They have one 2019 Bus 37 ap left at La Mesa. We test drove it and the electronic console kept going out. By the time we got back to the dealership the navigation also went out.

This in itself would be reason enough for me to look at different makes.

Bill

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Hey guys, aren't we missing a point? The tow ratings the OP published is the rating of the hitch which doesn't automatically mean he can tow a 15,000 tank.

IMHO, these motorhomes are getting too much electronic gadgetry. I don't need a touch screen to turn my lights on/off or to raise/lower my shades.

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4 hours ago, elkhartjim said:

IMHO, these motorhomes are getting too much electronic gadgetry. I don't need a touch screen to turn my lights on/off or to raise/lower my shades.

Amen, and electronics have been my livelihood for the past 34+ years. They are great once all the bugs have been worked out.

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33 minutes ago, kaypsmith said:

Amen, and electronics have been my livelihood for the past 34+ years. They are great once all the bugs have been worked out.

That's where you have an advantage, Kay, with your experience you can DIY whereas I have to take it to someone and pay them to learn how to repair it for my coach. I can easily change a mechanical electrical switch but I'm clueless if a touchpad starts going weird.  

 

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Jim S.  I'm right behind you on that.  

Chrisk22.  360/800/Allison 3000, must be  an upgrade...Tiffin Web site is where I got my info from!  100K between the two?  Believe I would keep the Red or go price a Newmare Ventana 40...Cummings 400, Tag axle!   

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We have a 2018 37AP, we tow a 2018 Jeep Rubicon Recon with Smittybilt roof rack, winch and front bar. I really don’t know its behind me. As far as handling, can’t believe you could not tell the difference between the Red and the Bus. We previously had a 2014 Phaeton and the difference in handling was like night and day. The Bus has IFS, big difference when putting on the miles in the seat. I could also tell the difference in the power as well. Unless you plan on switching tow vehicles, I suggest you skip the Patriot and go with a permanent mount brake system like M&G. 

As far as price,  if you are willing to travel, you can get a better price from the big three near RB.

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In the MH world, the rule of thumb is, minimum acceptable HP is 1 per 100lb of weight. That said;

There is a difference between a 360HP ISB 6.7 engine and a 450HP ISL, or  ISX  engine performance under a heavy load. A friend(full-timers)  bought a new Winnebago Forza this past spring, with the ISB 6.7 360 HP engine, he was already asking me how to increase HP and performance a month later. I referred him to Cummins Quick Serve until the coach was out of warranty.

There is nothing one can do to to a smaller engine to overcome  the advantages of increased  stroke and  displacement in a pulling/hauling work engine; on a racetrack or drag strip would be a different scenario altogether. There the ISB there is capable of producing over 1,800HP  - if you have deep enough pockets.

The reason Cummins stopped production of their OTR venerable ISC engine(max HP was 380) is because their ISL engine's minimum HP was 380, max was 450(I think).

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Ray, ISL 500.  

HP, torque, transmission & rating on rear axle, all comes into play when you beef up an engine.  Per Allison & Cummings, 495HP is the most you can beef up a Cummings 400 & that don't increase the 1250 torque!  Why anyone would mess with a DP is beyond me...Rich had a friend that did, but he got a new/different engine/tranny!  It was posted about 2 years ago.

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I agree with Carl. Engines and Transmission should be left as set by the Factory to do specific job and a specific way. If you desire more HP/Torque look for a coach with what you desire. (I dream of a coach with more slides, more baths, longer, bigger engine, less mirrors and wide entry. Problem is my check book will alway wake me from my dreams, Oh well).

Herman

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