Norcold Refrigerator

[rvannoy1]

I have a 2004 Country Coach, Inspire which I purchased new at the Buffalo International Rally in 2003.  I now have 103,000 mile on it.  

I am having a problem with my 4 door Norcold Refrigerator. My service man has advised me to not continue using the propane side and only use the AC side. He said that it is a fire hazard if I continue to use the frig on Propane.  So I have shut it off completely.  The frig works perfectly on Shore AC power. It also works well on the Generator AC but only while parked.  We recently took a trip to Ohio and back home. We live in St. Augustine,  Florida.  I left the frig run for a couple of days before we left on shore AC and it worked fine.  Then before we left home after disconnecting the shore power, I turned on the generator and turned on the frig to AC.  We left home around 10AM.  By the time we got to the first rest stop, the temperature in the frig had gone from 37 degrees up to 49 degrees and by the time be got to the campground at around 4PM it had gone up to 62 degrees.   After getting setup at the campground and hooked up to shore power, the frig worked fine by the next morning it was back down to 37 degrees.  The same thing happened the next day on the way to Ohio.  It continued to work this all the way back home.  After getting home I ran a test of running the generator with the frig on AC without shore power hooked up.  The frig ran just fine.  So it seems that the frig will not cool properly while the coach is traveling.

Has anyone had or heard of this or a similar problem? I don't want to have to spend $4,500 for a replacement refrigerator.

Robert Vannoy

(FMCA Membership # F278341)

[wolfe10]

Robert,

First, a question:  Why did he say to not run it on propane?  Have you ever run it on propane, and if so, how did it perform?

[hermanmullins]

This is just a personal comment and not anyone else's. I would not trust a Norcold Model 1200 refrigerator at all. Mine died after several recalls performed. I now have a Samsung RF18 residential refrigerator and it has worked for 5 years running on my inverter. A friend of mine just lost his barn, tractor, lawn mower, all of his tools and his motorhome due to a fire caused by his Norcold refrigerator. Sorry enough from my soap box.

My advice would be to consider replacing your Norcold with a residential unit.

Herman

[jleamont]

Robert, I can understand why you were told that  (in theory it makes sense) but ours caught fire on electric and if you do a web search most others did as well. So even on electric there is still a risk. 

Depending on your campground preference a residential model might make the most sense.

[ianbullock]

Rvannoy1, It's my understanding that there have been several Norcold recalls on the model 1200 4 door fridge to eliminate or substantially reduce the risk of fire. 

https://norcold.com/recall-information/

Have you had these recalls done?  

[txiceman]

2 hours ago, IanBullock said:

Rvannoy1, It's my understanding that there have been several Norcold recalls on the model 1200 4 door fridge to eliminate or substantially reduce the risk of fire. 

https://norcold.com/recall-information/

Have you had these recalls done?  

The recall is nothing more than adding a  safety shutdown that shuts down and locks out the fridge.  It is not really a proper repair.

They will catch fire on electric or propane.

Ken

[kaypsmith]

Here is a great deal on a Samsung 17.5, I use one similar to it and have no regrets. https://www.lowes.com/pd/samsung-17-5-cu-ft-counter-depth-french-door-refrigerator-with-ice-maker-stainless-steel/1000005992?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-app-_-google-_-lia-_-118-_-refrigerators-_-1000005992-_-0&kpid&store_code=1531&k_clickID=go_1792806856_70815140818_346853480771_aud-299487635210:pla-308543703977_c_1012953&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjrvpBRC0ARIsAFrFuV_39qQWHrrsNZhwtELIBP6joR5sANsRd-RkhxBF_6d3wO3bB9ovSmYaAgwfEALw_wcB The change out is relatively simple, and these models will work just fine on an MSW, or PSW inverter.

[wildebill308]

 

9 hours ago, rvannoy1 said:

I don't want to have to spend $4,500 for a replacement refrigerator.

That is a lot for a replacement No Cold. I would give some serious consideration to a Samsung RF18. The added benefit is there has never be a reported fire caused by one.

There are several post about doing the change out.

Bill

[jleamont]

4 hours ago, TXiceman said:

The recall is nothing more than adding a  safety shutdown that shuts down and locks out the fridge.  It is not really a proper repair.

They will catch fire on electric or propane.

Ken

YUP! Mine had both recalls completed and still caught fire. 

[rayin]

Back on topic;  I read your comments to say the only cooling issue is when traveling, is this correct? Check the drain tube from the refrigerator into the square cup beside the LP burner box, at least it is supposed to be in the evaporator cup. There is a small plug in the end of the tube with tiny holes it it. This is to drain condensate from the frig of course, and it prevents cool air from being sucked out of the frig by the air while traveling. The plug in the end is to prevent bugs from crawling up the hose while reducing the odds of  air transfer.

I have ran my Norcold 1200LRIM on LP every time I drive the MH.  Now to the chance of fire, buy a Fridge Defend/ARP unit,  its purpose is to keep boiler temperature well below the point where the system is over-pressurized and ruptures, which in many cases results in the solution catching fire when it exits the cooling unit. It will even temporarily shut off the heat source when you are parked on a steep grade, which caused boiler temperature to quickly rise to the danger point. When the temperature falls back into the safe zone the ARP unit returns power to the frig.

Some folks are hesitant to use LP while on the road, and I understand their caution. The majority of MH fires are in diesel pushers, the majority of DP fires are in the engine compartment. Some are switching to residential refrigerators, this lists the top 5  household appliance fires, refrigerator fires are #4: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/03/appliance-fires-is-your-home-safe/index.htm

[wildebill308]

11 hours ago, RayIN said:

the majority of DP fires are in the engine compartment

Looking at a couple of the big RV salvage yard websites shows a different picture. Nearly all the coaches that there is enough left to make a determination, show fire damage starting at the refrigerator. 1,115 reported cases in 7 years out of how many Million in service is so statistically small it might as well be 0.  

As jleamont said, he had all the recalls done and his still caught fire. I will stick to my residential refrigerator. 

23 hours ago, rvannoy1 said:

I am having a problem with my 4 door Norcold Refrigerator. My service man has advised me to not continue using the propane side and only use the AC side. He said that it is a fire hazard if I continue to use the frig on Propane.  So I have shut it off completely.  The frig works perfectly on Shore AC power. It also works well on the Generator AC but only while parked.

Robert Vannoy, sorry for geting distracted, back to Norcold Refrigerator not cooling when traveling. You said you have shut off the propane completely. Was this before or after the trip?

Bill

[huffypuff]

13 hours ago, RayIN said:

Back on topic;  I read your comments to say the only cooling issue is when traveling, is this correct? Check the drain tube from the refrigerator into the square cup beside the LP burner box, at least it is supposed to be in the evaporator cup. There is a small plug in the end of the tube with tiny holes it it. This is to drain condensate from the frig of course, and it prevents cool air from being sucked out of the frig by the air while traveling. The plug in the end is to prevent bugs from crawling up the hose while reducing the odds of  air transfer.

I have ran my Norcold 1200LRIM on LP every time I drive the MH.  Now to the chance of fire, buy a Fridge Defend/ARP unit,  its purpose is to keep boiler temperature well below the point where the system is over-pressurized and ruptures, which in many cases results in the solution catching fire when it exits the cooling unit. It will even temporarily shut off the heat source when you are parked on a steep grade, which caused boiler temperature to quickly rise to the danger point. When the temperature falls back into the safe zone the ARP unit returns power to the frig.

Some folks are hesitant to use LP while on the road, and I understand their caution. The majority of MH fires are in diesel pushers, the majority of DP fires are in the engine compartment. Some are switching to residential refrigerators, this lists the top 5  household appliance fires, refrigerator fires are #4: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/03/appliance-fires-is-your-home-safe/index.htm

Yes this OP turned into bash Norcold and sell their favorite fridge.  I met the maker of the ARP unit and his wife at Quartzsite and was explained the working of an RV fridge.  The 120 v elements  can cause an overheat and crack the burner tube.   I installed the ARP unit about 4 years ago and disconnect the 120 v power.  Don't have any problem with temperature in fridge or freezer.  It's on propane all the time when using the rv and I drive with it on with no problem.   

[jleamont]

2 hours ago, huffypuff said:

Yes this OP turned into bash Norcold and sell their favorite fridge.  I met the maker of the ARP unit and his wife at Quartzsite and was explained the working of an RV fridge.  The 120 v elements  can cause an overheat and crack the burner tube.   I installed the ARP unit about 4 years ago and disconnect the 120 v power.  Don't have any problem with temperature in fridge or freezer.  It's on propane all the time when using the rv and I drive with it on with no problem.   

How is yours running down the road? Any secrets to share or lessons learned to help the OP? With your technical background, a rundown on the fridge workings from ARP and owning the same model might be huge on this post.

Ours went warm on the road also and I never got to the bottom of it.

[huffypuff]

 

53 minutes ago, jleamont said:

How is yours running down the road? Any secrets to share or lessons learned to help the OP? With your technical background, a rundown on the fridge workings from ARP and owning the same model might be huge on this post.

Ours went warm on the road also and I never got to the bottom of it.

 The OP mechanic told him wrong to run on A/C only. Having to run your generator all the time while driving has to be more expensive than propane.   I disconnect 120v power to make the 12v board to think no shore power so it switches to propane.  Otherwise when on 120v If the fridge can overheats and crack the boiler tubes, it will leak and can switch over to propane automatically lighting up the leaking gas.  The ARP unit is a controller and turns off if the burner temperature gets too high.  Much lower than the recall unit.  If the burner temperature gets to high the fridge unit will be overloaded and not cool well.  By keeping the burner temperature at a good operating temperature the unit it works better.  So the ARP unit shuts off at high temperature to allow gas to return to the burner.  Then it turns the unit back on to keep the gases circulating.  Running too hot cause it not to cool good.  ARP also sell fans for inside and outside the fridge to make it perform better and  works with their controller.  The recall box is junk.  Our fridge works fine on the road and one time we had both freezer on top packed solid with fish from Alaska and all was still frozen solid when we got home a week later.  This was driving in hot weather.    

[ianbullock]

Huffypuff, if I have the ARP module installed can I still run it on 120 AC and LP gas as needed?

[wolfe10]

8 minutes ago, IanBullock said:

Huffypuff, if I have the ARP module installed can I still run it on 120 AC and LP gas as needed?

Yes.

[hermanmullins]

Puff, please explain what the ARP unit is. Some folks may no know what it is including me.🤔

Herman 

[wolfe10]

https://www.arprv.com/

 

A MUCH better control of the cooling process in absorption refrigerators.

[jleamont]

Puff, thanks for the explanation! 

[wildebill308]

I would like to hear back from the OP.

Bill

[desertdeals69]

4 hours ago, hermanmullins said:

Puff, please explain what the ARP unit is. Some folks may no know what it is including me.🤔

Herman 

The reason the ARP unit works and the Norcold doesn't is the location of the sensor.  ARP sensor is directly attached to the boiler and that location is patented so nobody else can locate it there. It shuts off the heat source (flame or ac element) when the boiler temp reached about 360.  The stock sensor from Norcold is located on the outside of the insulation which is much slower to react.  I tried to sell the rights to Norcold so they could install the ARP at the factory but was told by engineering that what they have works fine and not need to change it.  If you want to keep your rv fridge then I would recommend installing a Fridge Defend (ARP) unit.

[rayin]

desertdeal, doesn't the Norcold recall box shut off the 12V  supply when boiler temperature reaches something like 700 deg, or some other ridiculous  temperature? 

[huffypuff]

7 hours ago, IanBullock said:

Huffypuff, if I have the ARP module installed can I still run it on 120 AC and LP gas as needed?

You can if you want to use 120v but the element can burns out with a bang and put a hole in the burner then trip the breaker because of the short.  At that point the propane can turn on and set the leaking gasses on fire.  I feel more safe using propane.  It's not just Norcold that can do this. 

[desertdeals69]

11 hours ago, RayIN said:

desertdeal, doesn't the Norcold recall box shut off the 12V  supply when boiler temperature reaches something like 700 deg, or some other ridiculous  temperature? 

I believe that is correct. The sensor is on the outside of the insulation.  The problem is that the crystals are starting to form because the temp is too high.  The temp rises with just a slight off level.  With the temp sender located on the boiler tube you can watch the temp rise with just a small tilt.  We had a demo fridge which we tilted with a block of wood and watched the temp rise almost instantly.  The damage is accumulative so you don't know its happening until its too late.

[rayin]

desertdeal, i found this pdf that explains things in detail, except operating boiling temperature. https://aegiforensics.com/library/pdfs/Invest-Absorpt-Refrig-Fires-Part1.pdf

I was surprised to see the pressure-relief plug is designed to  vent at 281deg for a Dometic unit,( note locations) boiler temperature for a Norcold unit is Note 1: 185-195°C - 365-383°F  per: .https://www.arprv.com/norcold-cooling-unit-boiler.php#5-early-style-1200 which means I was wrong when I said it was near 700 deg.

EDIT: For anyone interested, here is the Norcold 12xx service manual: http://rvrefrigeratorrepair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Norcold-Service-1210

The 1210 model has a re-settable high temperature switch, unlike previous models.