Who Really Builds 'Em Best?

[Navychop]

After your factory tours and seeing all the coaches, now we know.

Hershey was a nice show, a lot to see, we enjoyed dinner with ya'll and share the struggle of cost vs quality on our upgrade.

Looking forward to cooler weather and the next two weekends in our RV.

[manholt]

12 months now, still a long ways out! Do you really think we'll hear from 99 again?

Carl C.

[rmcobb]

As to who builds them best? I'm not going to give you a name because I can't, I haven't looked at the market lately to see who is doing the best job right now. If I were shopping today, I'd have to give them all a good look, read and ask questions. I consider design to be a basic indicator of quality and assembly and fit to be an indicator of manufacturing standards and controls.

My .02 to this thread. Regardless of what the brochure says, or the claims of Quality by the Mfg, or even what a tour of the factory may provide..........understand you are going to have "issues" with whatever brand you get if you purchase new. Hopefully they will be minor. We've had 2 brand new coaches, and after the first one I said I wouldn't buy new again. Well, I didn't listen to my own advice and am still staring at an empty driveway. Only been able to use the coach 3 times in 4 months of ownership. I say all this to reiterate, "you will have issues regardless of what you buy". Quality can vary drastically from one unit to the next and no manufacturer seems to be over and above any other. If you purchase new, buy what fits your needs, and hope for the best! or purchase used, there are plenty of them out there, and get one that hasn't been a "nightmare" to the original owner. You can call the factory and provide them a serial number and they should be able to tell you the service history (warranty claims).

[99phantoms]

12 months now, still a long ways out! Do you really think we'll hear from 99 again?

Carl C.

I'm still here.

While at the Hershey show (Sep 14) ordered an Anthem for delivery next June. I think Entegra is the best bang for the buck, with a 2 yr warranty and customer support for solving those 'inevitable' problems.

Many thanks to all for their input.

[jlandon13399]

My 2 cents too. I have been like a broken record on this forum about the lack of ISO quality systems at RV manufacturer's production plants. They all use RIVA, but that is really not a quality control system. The least expensive automobile is built to a high quality standard, yet the most expensive motorhome is not....go figure. The problem is we as consumers are not demanding quality from the manufacturers. They sift the burden of fixing many issues to their dealers. The manufacturers could actually save money by building it right the first time and letting the dealers take care of routine maintenance items. Unless we all get involved in this nothing will change. Once dealer salesmen start telling the manufacturers consumers are demanding quality, manufacturers will take notice. Thanks for listening.

[sgureasko]

You also need to look at towing capacity, and what kind of towed vehicle do you or are you going to own.

Just adding to your thought process.

[akadeadeye]

With the intention of full-timing in about 18 mos, I’ve been looking at new diesel pushers, such as the American Coach Tradition, Entegra Anthem, Newmar Dutch Star, Tiffin Allegro Bus, etc. I see the differences in floor plans and such, but otherwise they are starting to all look the same.

So, among this type of builder, what are the real differences in technique & build quality for:

> wall & floor construction and insulation

> quality of interior features & workmanship (doors, cabinets, appliances, etc.)

> soundness of plumbing, electrical, heating & air, etc.

> safety & quietness of ride, handling, etc.

> longevity, reliability, & resale value

Objectively, who really builds ‘em best?

Are there resources available that compare real ‘beneath the surface’ differences among the large box builders?

Well, I won't beat around the bush. Other comments are right on about what you need and how you will use it, but you asked for some experienced recommendations. Here is my opinion, not based on what I own (well, partly) but based on the experience others have had that I have read about and personal conversations with many coach owners.

1. Foretravel...........Newell

2. Newmar...........Tiffin

3. Entegra

You will have issues with any of these but you can't go wrong with any of them either. Good luck.

Don

[Eudora]

This is perhaps a bit off the subject, but I have not found any other topic this close to my question. I am considering two 2010 View Profiles: one is, despite its year, almost new as it has less than 2000 miles and less then three hours on the generator.

The other has 33,000 miles, and the dealer's asking price is much higher. From my experience with my present Rialta and from having owned boats, I know that these units and their equipment need to be operated. What are your thoughts on this choice?

Thank you.

We had a 2011 Winnebago View and put 40K miles on it before going to something bigger last year. The View was superb in every respect. The only mechanical failure/problem we experienced was the frequent replacing of burnt-out headlight bulbs until I figured out that I shouldn't buy them from NAPA! Our trips included a 4 month, 17,000 mile jaunt to Alaska too. EMail me for more info if you have questions.

[obedb]

We own a 2003 Phaeton. I had the opportunity to look over a 2002 Foretravel on our first trip west in the Phaeton. I wish that I had settled for nothing less, although it would have cost me considerably more.

[tifmeoff]

We are new to the motor home community. Putting in the order for an Allegro bus 45OP, today. Did research on this for three years while owning a fifth wheel, for the past four years. Visited the Newmar factory twice and you cannot argue their quality. We loved the fit and finish of the Newmar, but absolutely could not get past the useablity of the Tiffin floor plan. The storage, bathrooms, kitchens, and also the functionality of the closed up Allegro bus was hard to beat. Loved the home-like feel of our fifth wheel, but are very excited to join the motor homing community. Keep in mind, we have only been RVing for fours years. We are addicted!

[Showinoff]

Personally after a lot of research and talking with my friends and customers the Allegro Bus is the best bang for the buck and they take care of their customers. You don't just buy an Allegro you become a member of the family.

[deenad]

Previous two MH's were Dutch Stars, then we bought the Magna because we wanted it (well, actuall I wanted it). Found out the Cummins ISX 650 is NOT reliable and it cost us big time after only 3,000 miles.

Look, ask questioins and decide on what matters. We had a '98 Santara and had to repair the cabinets almost every time out. They were made of a pressed cardboad with a vinyl overlay and the screws just wouldn't hold. When we ordered the Dutch Stars we paid for the hard wood cabinets just to get away from the problems with the Santara.

[manholt]

99 my 2 cents. If this was pre 07', I would recommend any Monaco product in DP, but they all went BK! I had a Allegro Bus 36', 2011 new and Bob Tiffin does stand behind his product and will take care off you in Red Bay, I just got tired off spending my time there!

From what I have been told by owners, Entegra Anthem and Cornerstone is a good coach. Unless your a multi millionaire and don't care, stay away from NEW Foretravel, Newell, Marathon, Liberty, Prevost, etc.

On any new DP, you will drop 20 - 30% in value when you drive off the lot! What ever you decide on, I would recommend a used one!

Carl C.

[jleamont]

Just an observation, Fleetwood seems to be lacking quality. I have a good friend with a class C and he has had roof problems (improperly installed from the factory)screws that were broken off in the roof with just the head resting under the lap sealant, some had no heads under the lap sealant . The sub flooring was not installed properly had to go to the dealer for them to gut the interior and reinstall the sub flooring correctly, the latest was the rear cap cracked from the roof membrane down the back wall, apparently this is common on their products I have noticed several Class A's with this concern on the front over the windshield and on the rear as well, oddly enough they were all DP's you would think the air ride would help this...guess not.

The Coachmen Santara we had had some serious defects in the design, The cab was mounted on rubber, the coach body was welded to the chassis frame (31' long) when the cab would move the body wouldnt so the two fought each other eventually the front wall of the coach behind the cab sheared off the screws and it started to float with the cab, which started to leak water. When the chassis would try to flex it would tug on the exterior walls and the caulk would pop out. I must say as much as i like the class c I would never buy another one. Trying to get one manufacture to work with its own company internally is a task that most fail upon, trying to get two different manufactures to see eye to eye with cab mounting against a body and the two flex in perfect harmony...impossible wont happen.

When we were looking I really wanted a Newmar and a non-emission Cummins engine, all that we looked at (used) had roof problems, the outer skin (fiberglass product) was no longer attached one had mold oozing out above the cabinets inside and black mold through 3/4 of the interior celing, the rest of the coach was in "like new" condition, it was on consignment. The roadmaster chassis scared me so I was avoiding Monaco products....then I bought one since the floor plan and condition was so nice, still unsure of the chassis design but it rides and handles nice, im just not a fan of that much "out of the box" thinking.

[akadeadeye]

99

Like some others, "the best" is often subjective. I can only tell you our real life experience with Newmar. First, the factory tour was very impressive. Second, the dealer was beyond reproach. Third, all warranty items were taken care of without question, plus some we didn't know about. Fourth, Newmar Customer Service after the warranty expired was and still is very helpful (albeit, warranty service now doesn't apply) with even follow up calls from them to be sure our problem was satisfactorily cured in the manner they had diagnosed. Newmar is like a "friend" to us which is a very comforting feeling since these behemoths we drive and live in have about a billion moving parts and I am only a weekend warrior mechanic. Actually, the word mechanic and my name do not belong in the same sentence unless the word "not" is there. But I can speed dial Newmar at any time and know a helpful voice will answer.

Most of our issues have been very minor and easily resolved in the 5 years we have had our coach. We have some friends who have a Newmar Dutch Aire and their experience has been the same. We have some friends who have a Tiffin Allegro Bus and their experience has not been so good. However, both manufacturers are highly regarded. No matter which you get, you will have some problems to overcome over time. Hopefully they are minor.

Good Luck

Don

[gbrinck]

Tiffin is known for their excellent customer service but not the quality of their coaches, which seems to be no better or worse than average.

Allied Specialty Vehicles now builds Fleetwood, American Coach and Monaco, on a set of assembly lines. The line for the high end American and Monaco models produces better quality than the lower end line(s) used for the other brands, but none of them are perfect. Seems to be about the same at Newmar too.

From my perception, they all build a few very good coaches, and a few real lemons, with most of the production falling somewhere in between. If you buy new, it's a crap shoot whether you get one of the golden ones, a lemon, or a "run of the mill" version. Regardless of how much you spend.

[jleamont]

Tiffin is known for their excellent customer service but not the quality of their coaches, which seems to be no better or worse than average.

Allied Specialty Vehicles now builds Fleetwood, American Coach and Monaco, on a set of assembly lines. The line for the high end American and Monaco models produces better quality than the lower end line(s) used for the other brands, but none of them are perfect. Seems to be about the same at Newmar too.

From my perception, they all build a few very good coaches, and a few real lemons, with most of the production falling somewhere in between. If you buy new, it's a crap shoot whether you get one of the golden ones, a lemon, or a "run of the mill" version. Regardless of how much you spend.

Well said!

[manholt]

Gary, I was lucky in my second hand Tradition and not getting rid of it anytime soon. It meets all my needs and the floor plan is perfect! Your dead on right and it will be a long time until we get the kind off quality we had and got used to having before 06' !!!

Carl C.

[casuall454]

When you get down to it everything is built using component parts, have you toured the Freightliner or Spartan chassis plants? All they are doing is assembling parts into a chassis they call their own.

As such all motor coach manufacturers build their units using component parts such as appliances (i.e. LG, Whirlpool, Samsung, etc.) even the assembly process is very close to each other (watch any or all manufacturer U-Tube channel) use of glues, fasteners, seals and the such. As the base materials (floors, walls, ceilings) again follow usual and customary industry standard except for a couple of manufactures who use “heavy duty sub flooring or 100% metal studs / NO wood or fasteners every 8” not 12” (review any promotional materials those manufactures will stand out to you) in the name of improved “quality”.

I concede there are enough differences between manufacturers to provide for patent protection or intellectual property rights, yet they are all governed on size and weight limitations as well the limited component parts they assemble into a motor coach.

In today’s information based society poorly built units will receive so much bad press, coupled with factory support / service that isn’t to customer satisfaction won’t survive. The days of poorly built or serviced products are rapidly becoming extinct.

The most important aspect for me is service and maintenance, purchasing your coach is easy. Keeping it functioning and on the road will require ongoing attention on your part.

Use of standard parts such as plumbing (Moen / Valley / Eljer) they all look close to each other yet you find repair parts easier for some than others. Go to your local hardware store and check on what is in stock as well the cost you will see substantial difference in price.

Access to routine service areas; If you choose to preform basic service yourself are the service areas able to accept standard tools or require “special” configured tools from Snap-On, MAC or others to get into that “small tight” area. Remember if you use your local mechanic he had to buy the tool you didn’t, believe me as my tool chest collection is over $18,000 and continuing to grow with every new model year.

Warranty who offers what? What meets your needs?

There is no standard answer to your question, enjoy your travels......