hwarkentin Report post Posted November 27, 2014 Hi folks, Traveling north bound on I-5 about an hour south of Eugene OR on Nov 21 2014. Engine began to run very rough and no power. Took an immediate exit ramp and called Cummins, they said to limp in or haul. I chose the second option. 2009 Country Coach Magna with 49,164 miles. Nov 25, Andy at Cummins Coach Care called to say we have a dropped valve. I haven't yet had any conversation with Cummins to determine whether there may be a warranty. I do not have extended warranty. Bought the Coach from Premier RV in Junction City March of 2013 with about 20,000 miles on it. Perhaps someone out there could provide advice as to who to talk to and how to proceed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted November 27, 2014 Sorry to hear about your problem. Andy at Cummins should be able to give you any information on your warranty. Cummins comes with 5 year or 50,000 miles, which every come first. You should be good on the 50 k but in question about the 5 yrs. I believe it starts with when the unit was purchased/put into service. Good Luck, Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlandon13399 Report post Posted November 29, 2014 Harold, You might also elect to join the Cummins Power Club. This will save you at least 10%. Since you do not have an extended warranty this could be of help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted November 30, 2014 Well if you have a 50,000 mile warranty you are lucky. Keep us informed. Wondering how /why you would drop a valve. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwarkentin Report post Posted November 30, 2014 In chatting with Andy at Cummins he claims an engine drops a valve and nothing to do with the operator. They just drop from time to time. Also likely an entire overhaul necessary. Cost could exceed $20k. Whoop whoop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpierce Report post Posted November 30, 2014 In chatting with Andy at Cummins he claims an engine drops a valve and nothing to do with the operator. They just drop from time to time. Also likely an entire overhaul necessary. Cost could exceed $20k. Whoop whoop. Not understanding why a dropped valve would require a complete overhaul? You are low miles. Unless somehow other damage done, I would think new piston and bearings in that hole, plus new pieces on the overhead, would fix it. Why would another piston be damaged? Or the crank needing work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBelievers Report post Posted November 30, 2014 Not understanding why a dropped valve would require a complete overhaul? You are low miles. Unless somehow other damage done, I would think new piston and bearings in that hole, plus new pieces on the overhead, would fix it. Why would another piston be damaged? Or the crank needing work. The reason is, the dropped valve face/head will not fit between the piston and the cylinder head. Thus the piston gets broken up, the rod may be bent, the bearings get mashed, and the crank becomes questionable. Further, the liner Is damaged, the head destroyed, all that debris is pushed out the exhaust and intake holes and swallowed by the other cylinders and I can't tell you the damage to the turbo and the intercooler as well. When you look at all the damaged parts most failures leave you with an undamaged cylinder block. Hope this answers your query. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpierce Report post Posted December 1, 2014 The reason is, the dropped valve face/head will not fit between the piston and the cylinder head. Thus the piston gets broken up, the rod may be bent, the bearings get mashed, and the crank becomes questionable. Further, the liner Is damaged, the head destroyed, all that debris is pushed out the exhaust and intake holes and swallowed by the other cylinders and I can't tell you the damage to the turbo and the intercooler as well. When you look at all the damaged parts most failures leave you with an undamaged cylinder block. Hope this answers your query. OK, thanks. I was just going by personal experience, having several diesels have valves hit pistons in my trucking business, and NONE of them had to be completely rebuilt. I am not saying it cannot happen, it just seemed that the way it was posted, was that if the valve hit the piston, it automatically caused the whole engine to need rebuilding. The point I was trying to make, unsuccessfully it seems, is that it does not automatically cause all these bad things to happen, although they might. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmarq Report post Posted December 1, 2014 I spent 40 years with Cummins CT. It is doubtful you will need a complete overhaul. Yes you may have transfer to other cylinders, damage to the head and turbo. A connecting rod in the failed cylinder maybe. The ISX is one of the most robust engines Cummins ever built. I would not think the crank is damaged. Warranty began the day the first owner took delivery or when he registered it. If it is a day. Over the 5 years it is out of warranty, if it is I would request a Cummins factory rep investigate and commit policy to help with the repair. It won't cover the full cost but should help. Good luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted December 8, 2014 The reason is, the dropped valve face/head will not fit between the piston and the cylinder head. Thus the piston gets broken up, the rod may be bent, the bearings get mashed, and the crank becomes questionable. Further, the liner Is damaged, the head destroyed, all that debris is pushed out the exhaust and intake holes and swallowed by the other cylinders and I can't tell you the damage to the turbo and the intercooler as well. When you look at all the damaged parts most failures leave you with an undamaged cylinder block. Hope this answers your query. This sounds like a over statement of an absolutely worst case scenario. You are going to have to show me how it could damaged a charge air cooler. I have rebuilt engines when I was younger. I had a stockish 283 that dropped a valve north of 8000 rpm. Changed the piston polished out the dings in the combustion chamber and lightly honed the cylinder. Put it back together and drove it another 20,000 till I sold it. Now you probably will have a damaged turbo from debris going out the exhaust. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBelievers Report post Posted December 9, 2014 My response was in reference to the op that he stated " a complete overhaul was needed to the tune of $20,000.00 by the Cummins shop. That I would think would be replacing everything.A Cummins shop would not leave any part to chance. I don't think a comparison of an 283 to a 600 Cummins is practical. These engines can and will pass debris from a failed cylinder back and forth to other cylinders as I have seen over the 45 years in the transportation industry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted December 10, 2014 My response was in reference to the op that he stated " a complete overhaul was needed to the tune of $20,000.00 by the Cummins shop. That I would think would be replacing everything.A Cummins shop would not leave any part to chance. I don't think a comparison of an 283 to a 600 Cummins is practical. These engines can and will pass debris from a failed cylinder back and forth to other cylinders as I have seen over the 45 years in the transportation industry. Yes you are right that 600 Cummins wasn't turning any where near the RPM the 283 was. I am absolutely agree that the Cummins shop would leave no part un-replaced that they could make money on. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manholt Report post Posted December 22, 2014 I would go with cmarq suggestion first. 20K is a lot off $$$ and no matter what any one thinks or think they know, you have to tear into it and find out for sure what the damage is...therefor I would like to have a Cummins factory rep on hand! I took my coach in for service at Cummins in East Houston, Texas last month and got an extended 5 year/100,000 warranty from Cummins, not cheap, but I sleep better at night! Join the Cummins Power Club...it more than pays for itself the first time you use it!!! Carl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rebootsemi Report post Posted January 16, 2015 I dropped a valve in my 400 Cumapart years ago actually the start of the mess was the valve seat dropped out and stuck the valve. When I took it apart found it killed the front head and two liners and pistons. Didn't hurt the turbo, had to clean out the bits and pieces out of the intake aftercooler. I think it cost me around $2k to get back on the road. After that I switched to a new Pete with a 3406 Cat and didn't worry about it anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deenad Report post Posted February 7, 2015 We're in the process of buying a 2009 Magna from Premier RV in Junction City with the 650 ISX and 47,000 miles. I've seen several reports on the Internet from people who have had a valve drop! Makes me wonder..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fhaz Report post Posted October 27, 2015 Just dropped valve in my 2009 Monaco exec with 650 ISX ...not under warranty with only 15000 miles..did you get any where with Cummins? Towed to Rocky Mountain Cummins Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sluper Report post Posted November 25, 2015 There seems to be an issue with the ISX650, reading over on the IRV2 Forums and there are quite a few threads on this subject. Best of luck with the help from Cummins. Great products but as with everything else there is a bad one from time to time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpelatt Report post Posted November 25, 2015 here are a couple links to the ISX-650 problems: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/isx-650-dropped-a-valve-for-the-second-time-238170.html http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/isx-650-cummins-137856.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwarkentin Report post Posted January 12, 2016 It's been a year and about 12,000 miles since the dropped valve and overhaul. The overhaul cost $22,800 and I paid for it in January 2015. In April I received a cheque from Cummins for just under $11,000. To be clear the unit was out of warranty as it was nearly six years old, but only half way to the 100,000 mile policy. The overhauled engine had a one year warranty, not sure on the mile limit. The overhauled engine is a huge improvement over the old one. Uses no oil or antifreeze. Never throws a fault on the Silverleaf VMS even on the long hills in the western half of the continent. I am in love with the isx650 once more. This engine will last until I'm done! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwarkentin Report post Posted January 12, 2016 I should also give credit where credit is due, Cummins Coach Care in Coburg Oregon, an excellent service center. I had them do some other minor repairs while the Coach was in their shop. They know Coaches. I wish I could remember the Mechanic's name that did the overhaul....he is very good. Had the Coach in the shop from start to finish. Did a great job. I waited a year to make sure there were no issues with the overhaul to say this! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted January 12, 2016 Harold, Thanks for the up date. And please pass your praises on to Cummins Coach Care in Coburg. Most of the times they see and hear the complaints but seldom the praises. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildebill308 Report post Posted January 12, 2016 Thanks for the up date. Glad you had a good result. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpelatt Report post Posted January 13, 2016 Harold, Very glad to see you're happy with the results. I am very happy with ours as well but slightly nervous every time we take a trip wondering if this is when it's going to fail. Bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bm02tj Report post Posted January 13, 2016 I had an old neighbor that was running Cat and was talking about the truckers that idled there motors a lot and would drop valves So I have always tried not to idle any motor. When you start it drive it slowly as soon as you have oil and air pressure and always heat it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwarkentin Report post Posted February 21, 2016 EGR is the latest! So, December 7 I left the Coach in Storage with Premier RV in Junction City. Asked Gary to complete the usual service, oil changes in both engines, service the aqua hot etc. A wheel seal leak on passenger side drive axle, he replaced it. All work was completed in February including two new front tires installed by Les Schwab across the street. February 8th I get a call from Gary. The exhaust is steaming like crazy so we shut it down. Now won't restart. I am not faulting Gary or his staff! We had the Coach hauled back to Coburg, NW Cummins. The EGR failed and of course pumped antifreeze into the engine. I have since spoken with Mike at Coach Care. They have removed the injectors, released the pressure inside the engine and have provided a quote for repair. $8357.49. Includes the $1,000 for hauling the Coach to the repair facility. He claims no damage to the engine, just need a new EGR. Wow! He says thank goodness it failed while at idle in the shop. Imagine if this had happened while rolling down the highway, damage could have been substantial. I do not understand the failure of the engine a year ago and then this happens. Is it possible Cummins sends "seconds" to be installed in Coaches? These things don't fail in trucks with millions of miles on them. This Coach was built in 09. It now has 59,803 miles on it. It should just be broken in and warmed up?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
