Increase In Tire Failures?

[RoryTug]

After a recent bout with a blown tire and the $9,000 in damage it caused, I have learned some disturbing news. The old 7-year-and-out rule is old news for tires. 5 years and out for RVs is probably inadequate, also.

My body shop told me they accept 7-10 new cases each week where tire failure has caused significant body damage to RV's. He said this has increased sharply in the last 3 years. He currently has a brand new Monaco purchased in LA which suffered a tire failure on the way back to Vegas from the dealer. 20 minutes after that tire was changed, a second tire failed. Over $20k in damage. He tells me he sees no trends in brand though trailers and fifth wheels more than Motorhomes.

The tire dealer where I dropped the tire for the damage claim with the manufacturer told me that new formulas created to reduce dry rot have caused much of the problem. The bonding agents aren't holding up. He cited government "encouragement" to change designs but who knows. Increasing shelf life would also increase profit....

My tires were 4 years old, 36k miles and inspected before leaving for trip They roll frequently and had 70% tread left. The failure occurred 35 miles into the trip and is an obvious manufacturer failure. It just came apart from the center inside out.

I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but beware. Report your failures to NHTSA. Perhaps the trend is real. In the meantime, thanks FMCA for the 6 new tires through the Michelin Advantage Program. Every $ counts!

[obedb]

What tire brand caused the damage for you? Two tires failed on a new coach on the way back to Vegas? Sheesh!!

Sorry about all of your trouble. I'd say the shop owner has a good claim for any damage he incurred. Our XZEs have been on the coach for 15 months. Mfg date of March 2014. 6000 miles.

Most travel trailer tires are now manufactured in China. Even Goodyear Marathons. Perhaps some cheap tires on fivers also. LA to Vegas/ often a very HOT!!! trip.

[wayne77590]

So many variables. Age, UV, not used and sits in storage, etc. I ran Michelin XRV's for 7 years and just this year swapped them out for TOYO's because I could not find Michelins.

I'd be interested to know if the second tire that blew was on the same set of dual. If so, how far did they travel on that single tire until they could find a safe place. Whatever distance that tire supported the weight of two tires and was most likely overweighted causing internal damage.

However, China Bombs (tires) are becoming more prevailent.

[robertbeers]

I agree on the "So Many variables" also the question USMC asked. I use an infrared thermometer to check tires at each stop to help prevent tire faiures. Has worked for me for several years and 3 Alaska trips. I use Michelin, XZE, L/R G on my 2004 28rb Trek which gross a little under 20K. Tire PSI is 75. Pressure defined by weight on each corner. They are now 6 years old and were under 3 months from MFG date when installed.

[ChrisPany]

One of the problems could be the speed rating of your tires. Some tires are rated at 65mph and you have to increase air pressure to go faster, with the increase in speed limits this could be the reason of the higher tire failures. Had two front tires blow on hot days at 70mph?

[16840138]

I would lean more toward under inflation.

[DAY8293A@CS.COM]

The EPA had the foam insulation formula changed on the Shuttle fuel tanks, which affected the adherance of the foam to the tanks... and the results are history.... Damage to tiles and the wings from loose foam destroyed a shuttle on re entry...

Now they are screwing with our tires.... GET RID OF THE THREE E'S... EPA, DEPT OF EDUCATION AND DEPT OF ENERGY,,, THEY ARE KILLING US!!

[RoryTug]

Some clarification. The double tire failure was not my coach But belong to another client of the body shop. My speed was 60 miles an hour. Inflation was check before departing .I watch my tires closely. But still feces occurs. Just a reminder to stay vigilant In maybe replace tires a bit earlier.

[tireman9]

I am aware of some claims of increased tire failure rates but this considers with highway speed limit increases from 55/65 to 75/80 range while tires in RV application have been for years and still are to my knowledge limited to a 75 mph MAX and this does not mean 75 all the time or 74 most of the time with occasional runs to 80. Can anyone here honestly claim that RV owners haven't increased their driving speed over the past few years?

I also have to wonder what the real reason for the tire failure is. In the initial report, mention is made of changes in the sidewall rubber but then claimed this change resulted in lower adhesion to body or belt cords This isn't supported by the fact that the rubber used in the sidewall is very different formulation than the rubber that needs to adhere to steel. It is just too bad that this fact doesn't seem to support the theory of a conspiratorial rubber change around the world because of some theoretical but not identified change in EPA rules.

Were the failures Run Low Flex failures of the tire sidewall or belt separations. These two conditions have completely different causes and leave significantly different physical evidence but I see no statement of who did the forensic failed tire inspections or what training that engineer had.

If you run into a tire dealer or repair shop owner that makes statements like this you might ask when and where he got his degree in Chemical Engineering?

RE the "Big Bad Government" ordering rubber compound changes, I would run, not walk, away from the conspiracy theorists. Here is a post on 10 myths about the shuttle crash and includes facts not rumor on the foam adhesive. Turns out the foam adhesive that failed wasn't changed. Darn to pesky facts. Source at bottom.

I can say with 100% certainty that in my 40 years as a tire design and quality engineer I never heard of a single instance of any Government agency or official asking or ordering a change in any specific tire specification material.

I am aware that some cancer causing chemicals such a Benzine (used in cleaning some surfaces) and other materials used in the construction of tire plant buildings such as Asbestos were regulated but this is not the same as having a rubber compound changed. Also these changes were done back in the 70's not in 2003 and certainly not done in Countries outside the USA as the rules implemented in an effort to clean up the environment in the USA do not apply in the dozens of countries where tires are built.


For those interested in facts you can review a few posts on the topic of tire failure:

Why do so many RV tires seem to be failing?

22.5 tire inspection. Confusing answer from dealer

How to avoid tire failure and RV damage. And I had a tire failure!

Quick post on "BLOWOUTS

"Blowout" A Real Life Experience




"During the lift-off of STS-107 on January 16, 2003, a piece of foam insulation detached from one of the tank's bipod ramps and struck the leading edge of Space Shuttle Columbia's wing at a few hundred miles per hour. The impact is believed to have damaged one comparatively large reinforced carbon-carbon panel on the leading edge of the left wing, believed to be about the size of a basketball which then allowed super-heated gas to enter the wing superstructure several days later during re-entry. This resulted in the destruction of Columbia and the loss of its crew. The report determined that the external fuel tank, ET-93, "had been constructed with BX-250", a closeout foam whose blowing agent was CFC-11 and not the newer HCFC 141b."
Source Columbia Accident Investigation Board Report, Volume 2, Appendix D, Section 11.3 and figure 11-1, p222, Columbia Accident Investigation Board,

[wildebill308]

I am inclined to go along with Tireman9. One thing that is not provable but should be watched for is the practice of lowering pressure per the manufactures tables. The practice of running at the minimum pressure to support the weight. In a perfect world this may be fine. I always add 10lbs. How many are as diligent as they should be in checking pressure? Some maybe. A larger percentage not so much.

Bill

[huffypuff]

Thanks you Roger for letting us know the facts. Like Bill stated I know you also recommend increasing tire pressure 10 lbs also. Isn't the reason is for extending highway speeds not that the manufacture recommendation is low for local driving? I seem to remember even back in the 70's (showing my age) that it was recommended to increase car tire pressure a couple pounds before long trip. I didn't know why but did it. Could you clear up this point for us please? Thank You!

[tireman9]

I think the most likely reason for specing the minimum inflation is the belief that customers are more likely to complain about harsh ride even when they are getting better tire life and better MPG. They can feel ride immediately but not see the benefits of +10% psi at once.

I am also in favor of +10% so you don't find yourself chasing your tail when it gets cooler and now you find yourself 1 or 2 psi low. - Assuming you have an accurate gauge.

With +10% it would be easier to discover you are low a couple psi and simply wait till the next fuel stop where there should be high pressure air available.

For those that don't know how to inflate a warm tire here are the steps.

1. Measure the pressure when the tire is at ambient (not warm from driving or being in Sunlight)

2. Note the number of psi you want to add to each tire to get to your goal inflation

3. When you get to a fuel stop measure the warm pressure

4. Add the number of psi from #2 to the warm pressure in #3 and add air till you get to at least this new warm pressure goal.

Don't get hyper about being 1 or 2 psi off. Remember if you have a 10% cushion you are good to go as long as you are within a few psi of your goal

[five]

I too have had a recent blow out...RF in May. However, it's been my observation the vast majority of blowouts are on pull behinds and 5th wheels. IMHO, the reason for that is that most of their tires are made in China and are not nearly as good as the tires made elsewhere we put on our MHs. I had a 5th wheel and did not have a blowout, but the Chinese made Mission tire just came apart...properly inflated and loaded, going 60 MPH...just a lousy tire. I replaced them with LT tires, no more issues.

[manholt]

Roger.

Ref. increase in posted speed limits. When I was young and "bullet proof", I would drive at 65 to 75 mph in a Class A!

I have in the past 30 years driven my Rv's at 63 to 65. There have been times off 70+ due to passing and then back to

cruise control.

I can also relate to pre computers and Forums, also all the regulations we have picked up since 1994....makes one wonder

how we survived in MH 1967 to pre 94'?! None belted, none Radial tires, that was fun! I run mine at 10 psi over when cold

and have not had a blow out since we got steel belted radials!

If I'm camped more than a couple of days, then I'll check tires. Otherwise, I'll let tire minders take care of it and I don't run around with a digital heat gun, unless I'm grilling a steak!

Carl

[huling3]

I too, suffered from blowouts, One outside passenger and a thousand miles later a inside driver. I drive 60 mph. Goodyear tires with unknown miles but over 80% tread, 6 years old. The second tire on I 84 just west of Cheyenne caused thousands of $ damage (still working on a total). Suspect road hazard for first blowout.

Checked the tires with a heat gun and the new tire was hot, checked pressure and it was low, re-inflated, drove 50 plus miles to Denver. Checked tire again and it was low again. Tire service found a leaky extension was deflating tire so I'll disagree with you who think the heat guns are only for BBQ's.

However, all that and my real question remains. Although I'm sure this has been discussed many times I couldn't find the right thread. Remote tire pressure monitoring! My local tire dealer said his company will not install them anymore and I've heard both sides of the issue. I have it on my Ram as standard equipment and I think most new cars have it and a number of the big trucking companies love them and others refuse to use them. Any new evidence for or against remote?

Fred

[wolfe10]

Fred,

Would LOVE to hear his reason for not fitting tire pressure monitors. I would not drive without them!

[jleamont]

Fred,

Would LOVE to hear his reason for not fitting tire pressure monitors. I would not drive without them!

Ditto. I would not run without it either. I even check the tire monitor while its parked for the winter, if a tire is low I want it addressed before it damages that tire or the one next to it from carrying all of the weight while its parked.

I have never heard of "dont use that because of......." I have heard many dealers and people remove the valve stem extensions (hose type) since they are prone to leaks. Never a TPMS system.

I agree...some systems work better than others but any system would be better than no system in my opinion.

[obedb]

I am interested in opinions on the best system to buy. I still like to gauge mine before leaving on each daily adventure, but if I can find a quality system I will bypass that. Like Carl, I run mine over the side wall pressure on a cold start (6pounds in my case). The unit handles better and fuel mileage has improved somewhat.

[jleamont]

ObedB, I have a Pressure Pro that I pulled from the last coach, My plan is to install it this winter into this unit. I currently operate a Tire Minder Wireless system. There are several that are identical with different writing, mine has "Tire Minder" written on it, I do not recommend this system, while I like that you can change the sensor batteries they system constantly throws false errors. I have called their tech support and they tell me its interference due to the frequency they operate on. Plus the toad is so far behind me it looses sight of it and the alarm goes off for that. With that being said I am switching back to Pressure Pro, I will send my old sensors back to have the batteries replaced and figure out what to do with this system.

[wolfe10]

Two comments:

I also have Pressure Pro-- this is my second coach with this system on coach and toad and it works for me.

Whether you get Pressure Pro or some other system-- GET SOME TPMS!` While a tire can have a massive failure/blowout, the vast majority of failures start out with loss of pressure.

Particularly on a toad, by the time you would become aware of a tire issue back there, you could have destroyed the whole vehicle.

[obedb]

I met a very pleasant fellow at the KOA in Limon,CO early September this year. Retired accountant with ConocoPhillips , but raised in a family that operated a public garage. He worked there as a teenager before college. He and his DW had taken delivery of a new Dutch Star 40' with a tag axle. Didn't know a 40 came with a tag, but that is what they wanted for their new ride at 78. God love them. I outline this comment and question because he had a TPM system that he was very proud of. He was a very smart guy with years of RVing. He told me the name of his system, but I can't remember it. He did mention that he stored the sensors over the winter in egg cartons and he labeled each sensor with tire position because if they were not placed in the same position as before they did not work as well. If this rings familiar to either of you I would like to know the name of the system. I will spend the money necessary for a good system. I do not want to buy substandard.

Brett/ you make an excellent point about trashing a toad with a flat and not knowing about it. 4wd would probably sustain high dollar damage.

[jleamont]

The old coach I pulled the sensors for the winter while in storage the 1st and 2nd year, now I let them on. Like clock work every time I sit in the drivers seat I run through the positions and check pressures on the display. I am a firm believer its easier and cheaper to address any issue in a shop or at home rather than on the side of a highway. The Pressure pro saved me twice on the old coach, one valve stem extension leak and a tire that the tread came loose and was flapping on an inner dual. both times I was able to slow down and look for a safe place to pull over and address the concern.

ObedB there are a bunch of systems out there and they range in price, I bought this wireless system for 1/2 the price of the Pressure Pro thinking I was doing myself a favor with the sensor design that I could replace the batteries myself. The old saying applies "you get what you pay for". The pressure pro is a wired system and when the batteries wear out in the sensors you have to send them back for the batteries to be replaced (they lasted me 6 years). On our old coach I had the remote antenna located behind the rear wheels of the coach so the toad signal would not be missed, other than that cable that was all of the wiring (of course there is a 12v lighter plug, which they all have). I bought the Pressure Pro since it was suited for tractor trailers (RV version similar just a different screen)I figured if it could handle that environment it must be good, other than the sensors battery replacement procedure and cost the system was flawless.

You are so close if you want to stop out and look them over let me know, send me a PM.

Before you purchase ask on here who has the system you are looking into and what they think.

[obedb]

That is a ringing endorsement! WhenI retired four years ago I didn't know of any truckers using TPMs. Apparently they are now. Thanks for your offer.

[tireman9]

General comment on the real cause of a "Blowout".

It's not because the building where the tire was made was painted green rather than blue. It is true that almost all the failures seen on towable RVs with tires not made in USA. But it is also true that almost all tires applied to towables are not made in the USA.

Go up to post #9 and look at my blog post on Blowout Real Life Experience. After reviewing the facts could someone explain how that blowout was the result of the tire being made in a tire plant painted green.

If you think about it maybe the reason for so many tire failures is the drivers have too much testoserone. It cretainly couldn't be that most RV drivers are male Now I made this not to start a discussion about who should drive just to point out that correlation does not mean causation.

RE 75 mph max. I have seen some information in tire industry literature about an increase in failures of over the road trucks but when investigated it seems that spending time in states with speed limits of 70 to 80 is a significant contributor to the trend.

Over-The-Road truck tires are basically the same as 22.5 RV tires in material and construction, so I feel the trends in RV and OTR truck tire failures to reasonably be similar.

Fred

an observation. You discovered a tire had low air but I have to wonder how many miles you drove, at what speed & load doing how much internal structural damage. Putting air back in a tire after you have driven on it when underinflated doesn't "fix it" any more than putting the burnt hot dog from the BBQ back in the fridge "fix it". You can ask those that have attended my seminars about potato salad.

When properly instaled I have seen zero evidence against running a TPMS and many testimonials from people that have avoided trie failures and the associated RV damage, myself included !

Best TPMS

Just as there is no "Best Pizza" or "Best RV" there is no single TPMS that "Best" for everyone. I have a blog post just on that topic