fagnaml Report post Posted July 28, 2017 Will the voting only be by 1920's era paper ballots OR will FMCA use 21st century on-line voting with real time voting results? A paper ballot buried in an upcoming paper version of an upcoming Family Motorcoaching magazine is a clever way of assuring very few folks actually vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jleamont Report post Posted July 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, fagnaml said: Will the voting only be by 1920's era paper ballots OR will FMCA use 21st century on-line voting with real time voting results? A paper ballot buried in an upcoming paper version of an upcoming Family Motorcoaching magazine is a clever way of assuring very few folks actually vote. Also easier to fudge the numbers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted July 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, jleamont said: Also easier to fudge the numbers It is my understanding that ballots will be returned to an independent third parts-- enough said! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff753 Report post Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 9:27 PM, hermanmullins said: Just my opinion, I feel that the Governing Board did the right thing . By their passing the Amendment they sent it to the entire membership to vote on the issue. Each of you that have been so vocal on the issue, now is your chance to be heard. I am anxious to see just how many members will take the time to actually fill out the ballot and mail it. Last time there were right at 700 votes mailed in, that is less than 1% of the Membership FYI the ballots will go directly to a independent firm to tabulate the votes and present the results to the Executive Board. Herman How many members are aware of the proposed change? I was surprised to hear only 30% of the 72,000 members are represented by chapters/national directors. Makes sense though. Chapters are mainly older established groups. Maybe an announcement of the upcoming vote on fmca social media would help spread the word of the question being asked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smithy Report post Posted July 28, 2017 1 hour ago, fagnaml said: Will the voting only be by 1920's era paper ballots OR will FMCA use 21st century on-line voting with real time voting results? A paper ballot buried in an upcoming paper version of an upcoming Family Motorcoaching magazine is a clever way of assuring very few folks actually vote. Unfortunately our bylaws do not allow for on-line voting. We will make it very obvious on the front cover that an important vote is in that particular issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smithy Report post Posted July 28, 2017 28 minutes ago, jeff753 said: How many members are aware of the proposed change? I was surprised to hear only 30% of the 72,000 members are represented by chapters/national directors. Makes sense though. Chapters are mainly older established groups. Maybe an announcement of the upcoming vote on fmca social media would help spread the word of the question being asked. We will be doing an announcement on social media, and are considering sending an e-blast out as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianbullock Report post Posted July 28, 2017 Why not change the bylaws to allow for online voting now? Show the younger generation that FMCA is progressive and move forwatd into the 21st century? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rossboyer Report post Posted July 28, 2017 FMCA's Policy and Procedure 1000 states the conditions to change the FMCA Bylaws. Proposed amendments shall be received by FMCA no later than January 1st of the the year the proposal is to be considered by the Governing Board. Adoption of the proposal requires a 65% affirmative vote of the Governing Board. There are several more details in P&P 1000, but the above are the basics. At best it would be the next governing Board meeting at Gillette before consideration of electronic voting can be stated in the FMCA Bylaws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted July 28, 2017 I am pretty sure the last Presidential elections was done without any internet voting so I am not sure comparing paper ballots to any other form of voting would be compared to a 1920's era. When you can vote for your local Congressman on-line, then come back and complain about the progress. In the meantime we still have to deal with "hanging chads". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmatteucci Report post Posted July 30, 2017 No matter what side of the issue you are for, everyone should be concerned about everyone getting three ballots and that photo copied ballots are acceptable. The several national organizations I belong to either send a ballot pre-printed with your name on it (attached to the monthly magazine) and you return it to third party that certifies the ballot and tallies the vote or you are given a specific logon and password to vote online. Doing the vote in an impartial and open manner will go far to restore integrity to the organization. If the they don't and the vote is close then it will be another black eye for the organization and loss of more members. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe10 Report post Posted July 30, 2017 Of course, if you have to put your F (or S or D or L) number on the ballot, there would be no question. This AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. One vote per FMCA number! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dons2346 Report post Posted July 30, 2017 12 hours ago, rmatteucci said: No matter what side of the issue you are for, everyone should be concerned about everyone getting three ballots and that photo copied ballots are acceptable. The several national organizations I belong to either send a ballot pre-printed with your name on it (attached to the monthly magazine) and you return it to third party that certifies the ballot and tallies the vote or you are given a specific logon and password to vote online. Doing the vote in an impartial and open manner will go far to restore integrity to the organization. If the they don't and the vote is close then it will be another black eye for the organization and loss of more members. In the past,there was a vote of the membership needed, I don't remember what the occasion was, probably the constitution. Each F# was sent a ballot and an addressed stamped envelope to return the ballot in. Guess what? Those returned amounted to about 1,000 members. Can you imagine the cost of that failure? .It is a fact that if something doesn't directly affect a member, they don't care and won't take the 5 minutes to fill out a ballot or spend 45 cents to mail it back Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sshelton11 Report post Posted July 30, 2017 Our family is very disappointed with the outcome of this vote. Our member number is F6648S and I have been involved since my parents joined in 1976 or 77. The main attraction then was about families gathering, but more importantly having the common interest of motorhomes. At that time, some motorhomes were manufactured, but many were being constructed by individuals. There were at least 4 engineers in the Cardinal chapter who had constructed their own coaches from the chassis up. The common interest involved issues that arose regarding maintenance, design and ideas, in general, about the motorhome lifestyle. If membership is all about the benefits then I don't need to be here. We have never once, in our 14 years as members, paid our dues questioning what special benefits we receive in return. We are members of two chapters, to which we pay dues and rally fees strictly for the benefit of promoting those chapters. We don't expect anything in return. Somewhere through the years the leadership has lost sight of this and moved to the selling of benefits. I cannot imagine the motivation of this change other than the self-preservation/promotion of the leadership because it is certainly a bash to those of use who wish to maintain the common interest of motorhoming. Please do not take my view as being an elitist, because that is not my view at all. If I owned a TT I would want to be in a TT club or association. If I owned a corvette I would like to be in the National Corvette Owners Association. I may also be a member of the AAA but for a totally different reason. I realize that the economy or age demographics has resulted in a lower membership level for FMCA. To me the association should be downsized accordingly to meet the current need levels. A Studebaker has not been manufactured in decades yet their national association has not opened the membership to the Hudson owners. I really have no need to maintain membership in two clubs as Good Sam is already meeting our needs as a camping club. Going forward I will be anxiously awaiting the opportunity to join, or assist in organizing, a National Motorhome Association. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted July 31, 2017 You should not be disappointed....YET.....as no vote has taken place. Once the inevitable happens, then you can be disappointed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aztec7fan Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Well said Shelton! I couldn't agree more! I, too am from the old school days of FMCA (f3508s) where the organization was more about chamaradie than benefits. Each rally back then was about seeing the new features someone added to their converted coach, or helping a newbie learn how to fix or understand something with their rig. It wasn't about catered dinners, or organized entertainment. I bet you know what the YES/NO card was for! (Everyone was given one of these cards with yes on one side and no on the other. If you displayed YES in your window, you were accepting guests, and anyone could stop by for a tour of your coach or to chat.) If FMCA is losing money, or dipping into savings to make ends meet, then costs need to be looked at and reviewed. Throwing out the primary purpose of the organization is not the solution. Chris Guenther F3508s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff753 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 On 7/29/2017 at 9:36 PM, wolfe10 said: Of course, if you have to put your F (or S or D or L) number on the ballot, there would be no question. This AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. One vote per FMCA number! So if I put F252125 on a ballot with your name on it would you mind if I voted for you;). Just sayin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobart Report post Posted July 31, 2017 At this point in time the important thing is to vote, and urge all members to do the same. Not all may agree but all can agree that not voting is letting someone else make the choice for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted July 31, 2017 The vast majority of FMCA members do not visit this site. With the average age of an FMCA member being 71 may not even have any interest in computers. That means that a paper ballot will be in the FMCA mag. likely just a printed page you have to tear out and put in the mail or a ballot that will fall out when the mag. is opened so it can easily be thrown out. There's really no other way to do it these days but FMCA is not going to mail a ballot to everyone in hopes of getting the best possible response due to the cost involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfsod48 Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Bill, You might be surprised that many of us older folks are very computer savvy. I do agree with you that paper ballots are a poor way to vote but it is what it is. Hopefully enough of us will say NO to kill this club focus change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mweiner Report post Posted July 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, rfsod48 said: Bill, You might be surprised that many of us older folks are very computer savvy. I do agree with you that paper ballots are a poor way to vote but it is what it is. Hopefully enough of us will say NO to kill this club focus change. Agreed....my 88 year old Mother was computer literate. Please avoid making sweeping generalizations. I'm over 65 and have had a computer for almost 30 years.... Plenty of us "baby boomers" that are actively online... Finally, it's 2017... Voting should be an online exercise. Better auditing and ease of tabulation.. WHY would you want to saddle some poor souls to count ballots by hand. Medieval. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted July 31, 2017 On 7/28/2017 at 1:44 PM, smithy said: Unfortunately our bylaws do not allow for on-line voting. We will make it very obvious on the front cover that an important vote is in that particular issue. Mark, Look at FMCA Executive Directors above statement. It doesn't matter how old you are or your mother is. Until the Bylaws are changed we can not vote on line. Till the Governing Board meet and decide to seek a change this is how it will stand. Also a change to the Bylaws, if I am not mistaken, has to be voted on by the membership. And guess what that vote would have to be done by paper ballots also. Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rossboyer Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Herman: Bylaw amendments are voted on by the Governing Board. Constitution and Articles of Incorporation are voted on by the membership. The Indianapolis Governing Board voted to send the changes to the Articles and Constitution on to the membership. The Bylaws were approved by the Governing Board as proviso changes pending the membership approval of the Articles and Constitution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermanmullins Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Thanks Ross, I wasn't sure of where and what constitutes a membership vote. However I am not sure the method of voting would have any effect on the number of members that may or may not vote. Thanks again, Herman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillAdams Report post Posted July 31, 2017 What say we take a look at how many FMCA members there are and how many forum members we have. Just because you can use a computer does not mean you are using a computer to access this forum. The facts are that a large percentage of seniors can "use" a computer (as could my 88 YOA mother) but that does not mean they are accessing this site or have any idea what's going on with FMCA. If you are age sensitive get over it. It's a reality that not everyone keeps up with this stuff on the internet and there has not yet been any info released in the magazine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rossboyer Report post Posted July 31, 2017 Possibly a generality, but I think more senior members will use the paper ballots and younger would use an electronic method if it were available. But in either case, I doubt that there will be more than 15-20% of the membership will vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
