The Future of FMCA

[cwswine]

FMCA may fall to the wayside like other organizations of the past.  The local square dance club 25 years had hard time finding a space large enough to hold is dance and had over 300 members.  Now the club has about 25 members and hold the dances in double car garage and only about 10 couples show up.  Maybe FMCA on the same path.

 

[charlieiam]

Perhaps these thoughts and questions would benefit this discussion.

If something is presented well enough to interest people they will buy it even if it is only a pet rock or holla hoop.

Its hard to sell people that which they do not understand or do not want.

Why should others support that which I enjoy?

The salesman's outline:

1. What is it?

2. What is it worth?

3. How can I get it?

The falling membership indicates that many who have tried it found it did not meet their needs nor satisfy their interest. 

 

[manholt]

Charlie. Agree!

CW.  I don't remember the year that FMCA realized they had to do something about their Convention, the annual, got so big, we ran out of Fairgrounds that could accommodate us!  That's when we started the Winter Convention...only mistake, they called it an anniversary!  How can you have a 50 year anniversary in Summer & a 51st in March?  Then 52nd in August the same year?

Now, the pendulum is slowing down, not near  the size. of attendees anymore!   EB  has got to start thinking outside the box!  

[hermanmullins]

Carl, just a slight correction they don't refer to the gatherings as Anniversaries. It is just 101st Convention. FMCA was formed 1963 and they had a Anniversary for the 50th year of FMCA in 2013 I believe it was at the convention in Gillette Wyoming. If I remember correctly it was "Mile Marker 50" or something like that.

Please, someone correct me if my date are wrong.

Herman

[richard5933]

One of the big limitations for the rally locations seems to me to be finding a large enough site which also has amenable rules/regs for off-site sales of vehicles by dealers. Not sure if as many dealers/manufacturers would attend if the rules were more restrictive.

Without worrying about that, there are some great locations in many places which could house the rallies.

[docj]

19 hours ago, manholt said:

If I was going to guess, I would say 50+% fall into that group!   Are you full time?

Yes, we have been full-timers for ~10 years and have travelled >65k miles around North America.  In "normal" years we travel for ~5-6 months and winter in south TX.  We have a site in an "ownership RV park" where we spend the winters (and our COVID-19 isolation).

[wolfe10]

Richard,

Indeed state motor vehicle regulations are a huge factor in ruling out venues. 

Most are very highly influenced by vehicle dealers within each state and many are written to give them very "protected" status.

So, many limit the ability of out of state dealers to sell within the existing dealer's state.

Similarly, many states severely restrict a manufacturer's ability to add/move a dealerships to a new location. - I was involved in a buy/sell with a relocation of 5 miles from original location.  It took 3 years to get approved!

Same goes for a vehicle manufacturer NOT being able to sell directly, but are required to go through dealers.

Certainly nothing FMCA can do about this.

[rossboyer]

There are only 5 states that are friendly to having FMCA Conventions. 

[wildebill308]

1 hour ago, rossboyer said:

There are only 5 states that are friendly to having FMCA Conventions. 

And they are?

Bill

[rossboyer]

Rather than give incorrect information, contact Doug Uhlenbrock at FMCA for the exact answer. I have seen the map of the red, blue and green states, but I searched for it and didn’t find it. Contrary to what many members believe, I know that Georgia is not one of them. There is a threshold limit that must be in attendance before out of state dealers are allowed. Texas and Tennessee are not either. I think Wyoming, North Dakota are two of the friendly states. Wisconsin is if you haven’t been there previously within some limit of years. 

[richard5933]

6 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

Richard,

Indeed state motor vehicle regulations are a huge factor in ruling out venues. 

Most are very highly influenced by vehicle dealers within each state and many are written to give them very "protected" status.

So, many limit the ability of out of state dealers to sell within the existing dealer's state.

Similarly, many states severely restrict a manufacturer's ability to add/move a dealerships to a new location. - I was involved in a buy/sell with a relocation of 5 miles from original location.  It took 3 years to get approved!

Same goes for a vehicle manufacturer NOT being able to sell directly, but are required to go through dealers.

Certainly nothing FMCA can do about this.

I know that in Wisconsin, for example, part of the issue is that vehicle sales done off-site (not on the dealer's property) are subject to a 3-day cancellation clause where the customer can cancel for nearly any reason. You won't see many direct sales of any motor vehicle done where the final delivery/paperwork isn't done on the dealer's lot.

If the rules governing motor vehicle sales are so restrictive, perhaps it's time to reconsider if the focus of rallies needs to be vehicle sales? I know that it's a big money maker, but promoting vehicle sales is not why FMCA exists. Go back to the early days of FMCA, and you won't see the massive vendor displays, vehicle sales, etc. You'll see people with a shared interest gathering together having a great time.

In the bus conversion world, we also have rallies. The focus is not on vendors, not on sales of coaches, not on anything other than our shared love of vintage and converted buses. True, our gatherings are not nearly as large as a major FMCA rally, but that doesn't stop the fun.

Another issue for us is winter. We winterize our coach for the winter, and there's no way we can even think about pulling it out to attend a March rally. I know that those rallies are great for snowbirds or those living in the south, but they narrow down the potential attendance greatly.

[rayin]

13 hours ago, hermanmullins said:

Carl, just a slight correction they don't refer to the gatherings as Anniversaries. It is just 101st Convention. FMCA was formed 1963 and they had a Anniversary for the 50th year of FMCA in 2013 I believe it was at the convention in Gillette Wyoming. If I remember correctly it was "Mile Marker 50" or something like that.

Please, someone correct me if my date are wrong.

Herman

The one in Indianapolis was called a 50 Anniversary too. I live 70 miles from the fairgrounds, and still have the magazine with the sign-up page. We didn't sign-up because we were saving for our Maritimes trip in '14.

[wildebill308]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:38 AM, smithy said:

Bill- I have engaged you multiple times in this thread and answered all questions(I think). What more would you like me to do? Almost everything you have suggested or recommended we are already doing. Your assumption above that the EB is doing nothing to try and solve the issues we are facing is flat out wrong. 

Yet since 04-29-2020 you have hid and failed to engage in a meaningful discussion about the problem. You have refused to answer direct questions about this topic. Yet you tell us you are engaged in the problem? Let's start with this 

On 4/29/2020 at 8:37 PM, WILDEBILL308 said:

Well yes you have engaged multiple times. You have been, at best superficial in you answers and refused to answer or acknowledge direct questions in response. It might be beneficial to you to get a nice Big Chief tablet and go back and reread the suggestions proposed by me and others. Here are a couple things as a bonus. It was brought up you need to work to attract full time RV owners. Why? There are over 1.3 Million full timers out there. Re read what I said about Youtube. The average age of RV ownership is 48. Tell me how many registered RVs are out there?

"Almost everything you have suggested or recommended we are already doing".

Well no, no you are not doing it at least well enough to be seen by us out here traveling and doing business and interacting with dealers.

"  Your assumption above that the EB is doing nothing to try and solve the issues we are facing is flat out wrong."

Is it? You were asked about that and chose not to respond. My point is if "nothing happens till the EB votes" yet it could be next year before they meet.  So here is your chance to explain what they are doing.

Bill

Look, smithy, the fire has flared up again. Or have you fixed the problem of continuasley loosing membership? 

Bill

[manholt]

I was in Gillette, WY. 2013, Redmond, OR 2014,  Madison, WI. 2015, West Springfield, MASS. 2016, Indy, IN. 2017, Gillette, WY. 2018, those where all Summer Annual Anniversary's or conventions!  I Don't remember a 2014 Indy, IN.?

Used to be N. Dakota, WY, CA., AZ., OR., ID., KY., FL.  A long time ago, TX., until we had the San Antonio Rally & had over 4,000 coaches show up at the Fair Grounds!  

[ckcarpenter42]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:26 AM, docj said:

If you choose to believe that insurance companies routinely pay benefits beyond their stated policy documents, I'll never convince you otherwise.  But for those who believe that insurance companies only pay what they're obligated to pay.  I've attached the words from the Travel Assist policy (as written by Lloyds) which describe the medical evacuation benefit.  As I previously stated the requirement is to take the patient to the closest medical facility at which an appropriate level of care can be provided. 

As for FMCA having "gone the extra mile" for some people, that may possibly be true (although I'd want to see evidence, not anecdotal recollections), but, if it is, it's something that FMCA did outside the coverage provided by its insurance policy and, therefore, can't be assumed to be a benefit available to others in the future.

I find it interesting that on the FMCA website the full benefits description is only available if you log in, which is a Catch-22 way of saying "you can't see the member benefits unless you're a member!"  Fortunately, the company that actually runs Travel Assist posts the benefits here:  FMCA Travel Assist

Doc,

I agree with your interpretation of the policy terms. But there are two examples that come to mind involving actual incidents where FMCA members I know that serve to demonstrate how Seven Corners, in conjunction with the attending physician at the nearest facility have determined the member needed to be transported to their personal physician for treatment. One involved a cardiac issue and the other a knee replacement.  In both instances, FMCAssist covered the costs associated with local transport and the subsequent travel to home.

Ken

[docj]

6 hours ago, ckcarpenter42 said:

But there are two examples that come to mind involving actual incidents where FMCA members I know that serve to demonstrate how Seven Corners, in conjunction with the attending physician at the nearest facility have determined the member needed to be transported to their personal physician for treatment. One involved a cardiac issue and the other a knee replacement.  In both instances, FMCAssist covered the costs associated with local transport and the subsequent travel to home.

The trouble is that using anecdotal examples doesn't provide a basis for being able to know what any specific individual's benefits would be.  Just because you know of two people who were treated this way, doesn't provide a precedent for any future benefits for others, particularly since that's not the way the benefit language is written.  I, for one, sure wouldn't want to make the assumption that I would receive those benefits since they exceed what the plan is obligated to pay for.

[jsgrafx@mac.com]

On 4/18/2020 at 6:36 PM, rossboyer said:

Economists state that an organization like FMCA should have 2 times the annual operations expense in reserves. While getting closer to that goal, we are not and with current conditions slipping away from that goal. Most members do not know that most deposits for conventions are not refundable. Usually, entertainers will not return anything. We have had some site deposits held over to another year or partially. A couple of entertainers have agreed to come back with some adjustments. Too many members think that the rally registration covers the cost for them to attend. Not true. The vendors and coach displays pay the greatest share. 
Several years ago, the magazine income from advertising covered many other expenses, but the magazine is loosing about $300,000 plus per year. Look how many manufacturers there were ten or so years ago. Many are gone or have merged with other brands. With fewer manufacturers, the result is fewer advertisers which is a loss of income to the magazine. I could go on, but hopefully those members that do not understand the large scope of our operatIon will read and learn. 
 

i think you can find a copy of a proposed budget in the Governing Board book each year. Your National Director should be sharing that information. Also, the minutes of the Governing Board meeting will have the final, revised budget.  If you are a National Director and are not getting that information or if you are not a member of a chapter, request the information from your National Area Vice President. 

I am a great admirer of FMCA. I have referred numerous people to the group for membership and explained the benefits. However, I am amazed at the situation you have put yourselves in. You state that, "Most members do not know that most deposits for conventions are not refundable." Your deposits, indeed entire payment IS refundable (under specific easily met conditions) per your materials. So what others do is irrelevant. I expected to hear, after the cancellation of shows, that we would be receiving a refund for our payment in full for the Tucson show. Instead I receive a voucher for a future show - and one that has a time limit on it as well. There are no other shows in 2020. There's nothing to say a future show will necessarily be convenient for us within your arbitrary expiration timeframe. I don't understand how, when you have such an exposure that it puts your very survival at risk because of one or two shows, that you did not cover yourselves with event cancellation insurance. It's never happened before is true, but it can. It will never happen is obviously wrong - it did happen. It's too expensive to have coverage? Apparently it is too expensive NOT to have coverage and it will prove much more expensive not having it.

Again, I am actually a great supporter of FMCA. I am not a "Chicken Littles" out there that are pessimistic about most everything." I am hopeful, but that does not make me optimistic. My membership is up for renewal shortly and I expect I will renew. But I am not pleased with being offered nothing more than a future show voucher for my money. And I am concerned with FMCA's viability at this time and going into the future.

[wolfe10]

jsGrafx@mac.com,

Welcome to the FMCA Forum.

A small research project:

How many FMCA Conventions have there been?

What would be the cost of "cancellation insurance" for all of them?

In the history of FMCA conventions, how many cancellations have there been?

Were you on the Executive Board LAST YEAR when the AZ convention was planned, would you have recommended cancellation insurance?  If so, WHY.

Not arguing with your conclusion for the AZ convention, but please justify from their prospective why they should have known to pay for it.

Not aware of many who would not do better with HIND SITE! But, few are gifted with it.

No, I am not involved with FMCA management, but as a retires manager, I like to put myself in the position of making decisions based on what I know at the time, not in hind site.

[jsgrafx@mac.com]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:46 PM, IanBullock said:

 "txtiger", in response to your points...

I am a member of FMCA because, I enjoy belonging to an association of likemineded folks, enjoying the RV lifestyle and because,

1. I really like the conventions and attend whenever possible. I enjoy socializing like most RVers. 

2. I really enjoy the magazine and can't wait for it to arrive in my mailbox monthly.

3. I subscibe to FMCA Roadside Assistance and still think it's a deal and I am extremely thankful for "FMCA Travel Assist" in case something happens on the road. 

This all for $85 a year?

What a deal!

 

I agree with you on your points and I find the annual membership fee reasonable, but just to clarify one thing - your last point seems to suggest FMCA Roadside Assistance is included in the $85 ($75) annual fee. It isn't, of course and is an additional, and reasonable, extra fee. I don't think you meant to suggest it was included but it could be read that way.

[cwswine]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:12 AM, ckcarpenter42 said:

Doc,

I agree with your interpretation of the policy terms. But there are two examples that come to mind involving actual incidents where FMCA members I know that serve to demonstrate how Seven Corners, in conjunction with the attending physician at the nearest facility have determined the member needed to be transported to their personal physician for treatment. One involved a cardiac issue and the other a knee replacement.  In both instances, FMCAssist covered the costs associated with local transport and the subsequent travel to home.

Ken

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the benefits change recently on the assist about providing free ride home. 

[manholt]

Yep.  Maybe that only applies to us peons...If we go by Ken C. & his 2 friends, there must be 2 different plans!

 

[hermanmullins]

Dennis, not to my knowledge but that is a question that Dan Ball will need to answer. Dan monitors the Forum and should chime in on your question.

Herman 

[wolfe10]

32 minutes ago, CWSWINE said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the benefits change recently on the assist about providing free ride home. 

My suggestion is to read this document on FMCAssist:  https://www.fmca.com/fmca-assist

If you still have questions, reach out to Seven Corners for clarification.  THEY, not FMCA staff are the insurance experts who administer the plan.

[dball]

What Brett said 😁

[cwswine]

3 hours ago, wolfe10 said:

My suggestion is to read this document on FMCAssist:  https://www.fmca.com/fmca-assist

If you still have questions, reach out to Seven Corners for clarification.  THEY, not FMCA staff are the insurance experts who administer the plan.

Guess I was wrong.  On the link provided above uses a example of breaking a bone and FMCA Assist  will fly both husband and wife  home on small jet at no cost.  I thought there was changes but guess not.

https://www.fmca.com/pdfs/FMCAssist Success Stories.pdf