rsbilledwards

Ok here is a follow up with PDP just a minute ago. Kieth said this has been a question for years. The answer is that the concentration of propane is so low no issue. It is a common belief that there is a higher concentration of propane than there is. He said as I thought, think about it most of the compressing to fill the system is done at idle and pre boost. Think about this, you are going to roll for something around a hundred miles on a gallon of propane gas vented through a 1/4 inch line. How much do you think that is in a concentration, not very much. It has never been a problem, or an issue.

I am sorry to have stolen this should have made another thread but Cetane brought it out and no other related comments since B

Carl, He needs the whoppin and he is tough and Bette, she is a jewel like Janet.

Carl, There is a dedicated metering device which is turbo boost controlled which regulates the required amount of propane. It is not a significant volume as I understand it. The valve issue has been considered. The system has been around and used for the last seventeen years.The Safari Trek group has used dozens of these to enhance the little Isuzu diesel performance to a much more suitable level. Ernie, No fuel no go, not enough propane injected to even begin to fuel the engine. In my case, I know the fuel gauge is accurate. and have it calibrated to boot.

I intend to have a conversation this Am with PDP on the issue and see what they have to say. I am sure they have encountered this before.

Byron, you are living right and Betty is on the mend, good We are outa here the 29th of August and back around the 25 or 6th of Sept. To the writer of this thread: I have a 2001 Safari Zanzibar. From day one with the previous owner it has always been plugged in when not in use. To this day it still has its original chassis batteries, Interstate Workhorse units. They still load check fine and are still plugged in. House batteries that has been another story, replaced every 3 to 5 years and there is an active solar panel up top.

Well so it does feed off of the intake manifold. As I think about it the air system fills if sitting for a long period or if the bags have been dumped, prior to any propane being injected to the system. The Propane is set to flow at something greater than 5 PSI of boost. At an idle No Boost. Now rolling down the highway with any kind of leak there would be that possibility or likelyhood that fueled air would be sent into the system. Thanks Brett for pointing that out. B

I will do that B

Rich, Brett The air compressor is not in that link. I did think of that as well...volatile air in the air bags and air tank...no thanks!! I my case the injection point is just prior to the 90 degree boot to the fresh air turbo. The manufacturer wants it a close as possible. I did not want to , mount the orifice in the rubber boot. It does not go to the exhaust side. The idea is to have the intake pack it into the combustion chamber to enhance the burn. Yes the coach DOT tank is the supply source. In my case the tank supplies only the stove and frige. Brett, we just did a thousand mile show and tell trip around Colorado, over 8 passes 10 thousand feet plus and averaged 8.4 MPG with the coach loaded, full fuel and water from the start. We dry camped the entire trip. Speeds were generally under 65. This is the beginning basis prior to turning on the system. The next trip will not be a strenuous as we are heading to the Pacific Northwest for the month of September. That will skew the results some until we can make the same trip again. Historically this SAFARI coach powered by the CAT C12 has had a lifetime average of 8.5 +- a bit, of course driver dependent.

Ok Here is another twist since the "Cetane boost" comment has been brought up. Why add a cetane boost? We know that works and the Kleen D does what it says it does. I is easy, just pour it in Why not add a bit of Propane as well to the mix and really improve the mileage and clean up the exhaust. Now do not get you nickers in a twist over this. First look at the current technology from PDP as they have been around now since 2000 with a vapor injection system the likes of which is now under testing in the Army and Air Force heavy haul rigs under the Federal Propane Initiative Program . Propane is metered in as a vapor above 5 PSI of boost, pre-turbo and directly into the intake air stream just before the turbo. It has several impacts,such as increasing the mileage 1 to 1.5 per gallon, foot dependent. Increase in power output, foot dependent and subsequently torque. All of this from the un-burned fuel we frequently see exiting exhausts as black smoke. It is additionally aiding older rigs in California to pass the emissions. The metering device is patented and is boost controlled. It is preset at the time of order for a specific application but is manually adjustable. The propane supply is electrically controlled by a relay assembly at the tank via manual controls or automated controls. If one has a JAKE it too is included in the controls. I was at Alamo Lake last winter when an old Beaver coach came rolling in hauling a boat and a late model pickup. I went over for a chat because I thought the load was substantial for the coach. Turns out he was a retired trucker and loved fishing and you guessed it, trucking, now replaced with the coach and a fishing pole. I of course commented about the coach and the load. He just grinned and walked to the rear and showed me the propane injection system on the coach for 70 thousand trouble free miles. When he left dragging all, there was not one bit of black exhaust from the 200,000 mile rig. That was enough to make me interested. After all Propane sells for $2.50 a gallon, that is 2.5 cents per mile for an extra mile, possibly a bit more, per gallon of fuel. I have just completed the install of the unit on the Panther. I expect propane consumption to be about a gallon per 100 miles and an increase of 1 something per gallon of fuel. The coach does not lack push from the C 12 CAT, I am looking purely for the mileage increase. I am currently averaging 8.5 MPG. Hey I like technology and have made countless changes on this coach for the pleasure it offers my lifestyle. This is the first one that might have a real physical return besides pleasure.

I am with Carl. I use it every tank. In my Super Duty 7.3 Ltr Ford, it is worth a 100 miles city and highway if I use it, if I do not, I loose it. I do not know what it is worth on the C 12. I also routinely run the fuel in the coach below 1/4 but then even though a 1999 built rig, it only has 16,000 miles on it and I have no contaminates to speak of showing. On the 2001 Zanzibar I started that, using all the fuel and I did have to drain and clean the tank. It was a mess. I would periodically cut open the primary filter and see what was in it on the Z. It is not necessary on the Panther as it has a clear bowl.

I am using a Goodyear 275 70r 22.5 HSA steer all four corners 500 a tire mounted and balanced. The ride is just fine. M's price was greater B

They do not tell you there is a life span and it should be removed and reinstalled. Most of us never do anything to it including me and I have installed dozens on Porsches and others including mine. I, now have to like all of you, deal with a mess. It is OK better than paying for a repaint... b

To build on TBUTLER'S take on the trip, not in order. Mesa Verde does have an on site campground which is no suitable for you large coaches/. We were just there with 2 40's and barely made it into two spots. It was a very impressive place and indescribable history and inexpensive ranger hosted/guided tours. Bryce Canyon, spectacular as you look down on the site for the most part. The campground there terrific with reservations is best. If you have none ok but in the parking extension kinda bare and dry with all facilities. If with reservations, in the trees and very nice. I would make this the next to the last park visited in this area as the drive out 12 headed East will take you to Capital Reef. Continuing East on 12 and the drive is nothing short of spectacular all the way up to Green River, Utah and I 70!!! Again start early it is an all day drive rubbernecking Zion is something else again. We have not had the coach there. It is very tight for a large coach I might add that the best approcah to Bryce is from the West through Cedar City. It is quite a climb but the scenery is wonderful and worth the drive. The Durango Silverton rail way a day experience and beautiful being in the back country of Colorado. A much better drive in my humble opinion is from the four corners area and one of Colorado's best kept secrets is the Colorado 145 the Delores River Road North up and over Lizard Head Pass toward Telluride. Telluride sits at the end of a huge impassible granite box canyon and s one of the premiere ski areas. Then staying on 145 north west to 141 up to Grand Junction. This road has everything geologically and forestry wise Colorado has to offer in the extreme on a very nice drive-able 2 lane highway. Start early, It is a marvelous drive and zero traffic from the south heading north on 141 beyond Telluride. The bypass around Denver Tom refers to is C470 E 470 on the east side is a toll road and expensive. Send me a PM if you would like more and there is a lot more. Welcome to the Forum

Great to have you here and lots of help available. Yes rebuildable but in this case it is reasonably priced...I will send you a PM look in the upper corner of the page and you will have a mail icon. tap that and you will find a note, As Jerry above indicates all is accurate RS Bill

Joe, Did you take the pictures with a phone? Very nice looking Park sites. Much nicer than where we met. Are the expensive?

I had Stewart and Stevenson in Denver do a change over 2 years ago, not sure how good a job they did but not a leak any where. I intend to change the fluid in my Panther in September myself and do not expect any leaks. I have changed all other fluids to synthetic and no leaks. I run synthetics in a couple Audis and some VW corrados and a Golf no leaks after the change. Sounds like an excuse to avoid a mistake

The charging style will increase the life span or reduce it. I expect 7 to ten years from the Crown 260 6 volt batteries currently in the coach. I will admit that the 12 volters in the Zanzibar lasted 3 to 4. Most of the inverters of years past are not set nor designed to charge as currently determined ...technology moves forward and most folks do not spend to keep up and expect the old style units to automatically do what newer components do. Because one spent a lot of money, does not mean he got the latest and the greatest either. It also does not mean that the appropriate programming was done either if later technology is installed...It is up to us to figure it out. One can not blame it all on the batteries.

Were they pointed at the sail due to no wind????or were they the wind?

I have used Turtle Wax Ice and have had great results. Windows...never noticed an issue. I also use the polymer product very similar to all of these like Lucus from Mothers, spray it on and wipe it off, nice shine. It is available all over the place.

Joe Sleep nr is having the proverbial sale, Final clearance on the P5 most (popular bed), no rounded corners $1,500 and step up for the P6 at $1,800 you do not need a base in the coach as long as it is like mine a sheet of plywood.

Joe, It is a Queen one up from the base and bought it from Sleep Number Store here might have been on sale. Janet and the invoice 2014 we paid $1,549 delivered Ca,mping World has had them too

Ok this is a good one and quite the drive. We made it on the way back from Arizona to Colorado which is home. Since you are at Zion and maybe in a big coach you will have to go to Cedar City to go and visit Bryce Canyon and you would be foolish not to as you are so close. The drive from Cedar City is just the beginning of a spectacular drive. At Bryce continue on 12 to Capital Reef National Park and then a right East on 24 through the park and on to Green River, Utah. I70 heading East is nice and very pretty views to Grand Junction. Since you want to go to Monument Valley and the other parks go south on 50 and then south on Colorado 141 until it intersects with 145 just past Naturita. Follow 145 to Delores and then Cortez. This route from Grand Junction is one of Colorado's best kept secrets. The route takes you over Lizard head pass one of Colorado's most spectacular sights. You are now officially in the four corners area and Mesa Verde National Park beacons with abundant ancient history. From there take 160 south to Colorado 41 or continue on 160. 41/Utah 162-163 is a real dream drive and it loops back to 160 at Kayenta, AZ good luck and have a great time.

We too have a sleep number in the coach GRRRREAT. we have on at home too...Janet likes it hard and I a bit softer. Only problem we ever had both bags failed at virtually the same time...Slp Nr replaces under warranty. Joe we did not pay any where near that.

I am set up with Heggan Law offices out of Missoula, Montana. I have no issues and they do it all, send the paper work, we sign and send a check. With an older coach 1999 and a 2001 Permanent plates on the coaches and the trailers. It seems most cost effective to do all components at the same and first round. Adding vehicles later, it appears more expensive. The gals in the office very attentive and get back to us quickly.